What killed my PC? Do Noctua's explode?

[Dredgy]

Right, this one has me stumped and I don't have a team of engineers at my disposal anymore. 

 

5 years ago I built about 100 of the same PC for work, I also gave one to my dad. Fairly basic mITX system, but solid enough. I use an identically specced PC in my home office. I've never had any significant issues with any of them. 

 

Well dad called, said his PC wasn't turning on. I did do a motherboard swap in his PC at a later date, so it's maybe only 3 years old. Press the power button, PSU fan at least comes on, nothing else happens. I just order him a new NUC because I don't really want to bother troubleshooting.

 

However I took the PC apart today for my own amusement, I figured I'd maybe get $20 for the Noctua L9i cooler, and perhaps another $20 for the RAM. I was shocked at how clean the system was - cable manage had held up, basically 0 dust ingress, it was spotless. I was proud. Then I looked at the CPU cooler and was shocked. It looked massively corroded.

 

Taking the PSU out, it was clear the motherboard was covered in what looked like metal dust, definitely wasn't the normal dust bunnies I'm used to seeing (and again, rest of the PC was spotless).

 

The CPU cooler fan had a bunch of gunk in it. Brown. Looked like rust. Some of it came off, some of it did not.

 

 

 

Top of the heatsink had a mixture of normal dust and what looked like mould growing on it. Side of the heatsink was heavily corroded.

 

RAM had some of the same rust like the fan, but it came off easily. The RAM still works. 

 

My working theory is that somehow the heatpipes leaked (the center of the corrosion seems to be around where the heatpipes meat the frame of the heatsink, but it's hard to get a camera in there) or maybe lubricant leaking from the fan itself.

 

No burst capacitors or batteries that I can find. CPU socket and CPU itself look fine.

 

Any ideas?

 

 

 

[Skiiwee29]

That is NOT normal dust... you likely choked the system out with never dusting it out.... 

[mineblaster]

It's not beside an air conditioner or anything like that it looks like condensation has been sitting on it

[Stormseeker9]

I think the dust did it. I mean look at that bloc full of dust/mould 

[Stefan Payne]

15 minutes ago, Dredgy said:

My working theory is that somehow the heatpipes leaked (the center of the corrosion seems to be around where the heatpipes meat the frame of the heatsink, but it's hard to get a camera in there) or maybe lubricant leaking from the fan itself.

NO, that maes no sense.

because there isn't much inside. There's maybe 2 drops of some kind of fluid inside. That one Evaporates at roomtemperature (OK, there might be some kind of vaccum inside).

So no, that's bogus.

Its more likely that its very damp wherever the PC was used. Or that it got wet.

[Dredgy]

1 minute ago, Skiiwee29 said:

That is NOT normal dust... you likely choked the system out with never dusting it out.... 

I know it's not normal dust, the stuff on the motherboard is metallic and the stuff on the heatsink is mostly mould.

Where it originates beats me, there is basically 0 dust throughout the rest of the system - just some on the exterior of the intake grill.For a 5 year old PC it was remarkably clean. The case was kept highly positive pressurized and was in an extremely well ventilated area. It was definitely not "choked out".

 

1 minute ago, mineblaster said:

It's not beside an air conditioner or anything like that it looks like condensation has been sitting on it

 

No, in an unairconditioned room in fairly dry conditions. At altitude, but near the sea, so it's not uncommon for things left outside to corrode because salt spray, but this is quite centralized. It looks like something came came out of the heatsink and into the fan and then got sprayed around a little bit. I'm currently trying to see if anything has leaked from the PSU, but it looks brand new in there, just a bit of the same rusty stuff on the fan grille.

[porina]

I'd also suspect environmental factors. I've not seen any heatsink like that.

 

If a heatpipe broke the stuff inside would escape and evaporate rapidly so I doubt that is the cause.

[CiBi]

2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

NO, that maes no sense.

because there isn't much inside. There's maybe 2 drops of some kind of fluid inside. That one Evaporates at roomtemperature (OK, there might be some kind of vaccum inside).

So no, that's bogus.

Its more likely that its very damp wherever the PC was used. Or that it got wet.

 

1 minute ago, Dredgy said:

I know it's not normal dust, the stuff on the motherboard is metallic and the stuff on the heatsink is mostly mould.

Where it originates beats me, there is basically 0 dust throughout the rest of the system - just some on the exterior of the intake grill.For a 5 year old PC it was remarkably clean. The case was kept highly positive pressurized and was in an extremely well ventilated area. It was definitely not "choked out".

 

 

No, in an unairconditioned room in fairly dry conditions. At altitude, but near the sea, so it's not uncommon for things left outside to corrode because salt spray, but this is quite centralized. It looks like something came came out of the heatsink and into the fan and then got sprayed around a little bit. I'm currently trying to see if anything has leaked from the PSU, but it looks brand new in there, just a bit of the same rusty stuff on the fan grille.

For one there is very little fluid in heat pipes and second its usually not something that facilitates corrosion. 

 

I don't have another explanation but seeing as the fan is dirty as well I'm guessing it came from outside the system.

[porina]

3 minutes ago, Dredgy said:

At altitude, but near the sea, so it's not uncommon for things left outside to corrode because salt spray, but this is quite centralized.

I'd guess this. Even if you're some distance away, it could be possible for finer spray that wouldn't normally be noticed to be carried by the wind. Over time it may accumulate on the heatsink because of the volume of air moving through it.

[Dredgy]

3 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Its more likely that its very damp wherever the PC was used. Or that it got wet.

 

1 minute ago, porina said:

I'd also suspect environmental factors. I've not seen any heatsink like that.

 

If a heatpipe broke the stuff inside would escape and evaporate rapidly so I doubt that is the cause.

Other theory is that something leaked from the PSU into the fan, but the PSU looks to be schmick on dissasembly.

Can't rule out a spillage or something, but the CPU cooler would be very hard to get water to, and that seems to be where most of the damage is. Was kept vaguely near a window, with the rear of the case facing the window, so it is plausible if unlikely that heavy rain could make its way in. 

 

But the damage is so localized (there's no mould, dust or anything anywhere else in the PC). 

[Stefan Payne]

2 minutes ago, CiBi said:

I don't have another explanation but seeing as the fan is dirty as well I'm guessing it came from outside the system.

That kinda looks like a rust film/rust bloom that came from outside.

 

If you think about it it makes no sense. Because the Heatsink is Aluminium. ANd the side panel is probably also not steel. Not sure about that though. But that looks like Steel Rust.

[Dredgy]

2 minutes ago, porina said:

I'd guess this. Even if you're some distance away, it could be possible for finer spray that wouldn't normally be noticed to be carried by the wind. Over time it may accumulate on the heatsink because of the volume of air moving through it.

Yes I guess is the most likely cause. Still want conclusive proof though

[Stefan Payne]

1 minute ago, Dredgy said:

Was kept vaguely near a window, with the rear of the case facing the window, so it is plausible if unlikely that heavy rain could make its way in. 

 

But the damage is so localized (there's no mould, dust or anything anywhere else in the PC). 

Can you pls post a picture of the PC Case?? Was it a mesh over the CPU Heatsink?? 

How was the Case oriented??

 

Because I have a better theory:
Condensation...

[porina]

5 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

If you think about it it makes no sense. Because the Heatsink is Aluminium. ANd the side panel is probably also not steel. Not sure about that though. But that looks like Steel Rust.

The fins might be aluminium, but I'm not sure the end plates are. That doesn't play a significant part in the cooling, and I suspect they might have used some kind of plated steel. Could be tested with a magnet.

 

Edit: Noctua describe it as 

Quote

Copper (base and heat-pipes), aluminium (cooling fins), soldered joints & nickel plating

Does Nickel "rust" that way?

[Stefan Payne]

1 minute ago, porina said:

and I suspect they might have used some kind of plated steel

They did.

Its magnetic, just tested it with my NH-L9i.

[Dredgy]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

Can you pls post a picture of the PC Case?? Was it a mesh over the CPU Heatsink?? 

How was the Case oriented??

 

Because I have a better theory:
Condensation...

 It's a cooler master Elite 120 Advance. PSU was mounted at top with fan facing down iirc. 1x 120mm intake and 2x80mm outtake fans (from memory, can't remember exactly how I configured it). The PSU was directly over the CPU heatsink, so anything condensating though the top grill would have landed on the top of the PSU (not the fan) and the PSU has no marks on that side indicating anything. The PSU fan grille (directly above the CPU fan) had some of the same rust stuff, but it came off easily and the fan itself was clean, and all internals seemed fine. 

To get to the CPU fan, water would have had to come (with some velocity) through the side outtakes, through the motherboard IO or through the back of the PSU. Not implausible.

[Dredgy]

4 minutes ago, porina said:

The fins might be aluminium, but I'm not sure the end plates are. That doesn't play a significant part in the cooling, and I suspect they might have used some kind of plated steel. Could be tested with a magnet.

 

Edit: Noctua describe it as 

Does Nickel "rust" that way?

Dissasemmbling the cooler now, the tip of one heatpipe is bright green, so I'm assuming that's the copper.

[Dredgy]

The white stuff on the heatsink I originally took as mould seems to be metallic and the same stuff that's got on the mobo.

[Bananasplit_00]

a heatpipe dosnt even have a drop of fluid in them so i doubt that, to me it looks like a humid enviroment. Something wet at least, is there any traces of fluids at the bottom of the case?

[Stefan Payne]

One piece of Information is missing though:
Where was the Case? Where was the Window?
How much between the two?

Just now, Dredgy said:

PSU was mounted at top with fan facing down iirc.

...wich sucks air in, away from the CPU heatsink, causing some turbulences and maybe even a vacuum that sucks in the air from the sides.

Just now, Dredgy said:

The PSU was directly over the CPU heatsink, so anything condensating though the top grill would have landed on the top of the PSU (not the fan) and the PSU has no marks on that side indicating anything.

For that to happen you need a component to be cooler than the air flowing around that...

 

Also the Motherboard is on the bottm while the PSU is on the top with fan on the buttom, so there is an additional hrudle...

 

[just that pc guy]

YIKES, see this is why a good monthly pc cleaning is always a good thing to door like... dont use a flat cooler like that, hate thoes flat coolers, they always blow dust all around the bottom of the pc and motherboard

[Dredgy]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

One piece of Information is missing though:
Where was the Case? Where was the Window?

 

Case was on a corner desk across the room, and a large room at that. Probaby 1.8-2m.

 

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

...wich sucks air in, away from the CPU heatsink, causing some turbulences and maybe even a vacuum that sucks in the air from the sides.

 

Yes, is why I went with a low profile CPU cooler in the first case. The PSU fan should not have been running all the time (or even ever) as very cool environment and I doubt the PC was ever at full or even half load, as dad just used it as a place to copy photos from one SD card to an external drive.

 

5 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

a heatpipe dosnt even have a drop of fluid in them so i doubt that, to me it looks like a humid enviroment. Something wet at least, is there any traces of fluids at the bottom of the case?

No. I spilt some of the dust on the bottom of the case when I pulled the mobo, but else it looks clean. 

[Dredgy]

10 minutes ago, just that pc guy said:

YIKES, see this is why a good monthly pc cleaning is always a good thing to door like... dont use a flat cooler like that, hate thoes flat coolers, they always blow dust all around the bottom of the pc and motherboard

This PC had been running for 2 years when I initially swapped the motherboard and there was no dust at all in the CPU fan at that time. Likewise I bought 100+ of identically configured PCs as an enterprise customer and none of them have had any issues of note, those are all clean (though they are also inspected annually I believe)

 

My gaming PC builds up 50 times as much dust in under a week as this one has in over 3 years. The "dust" on top of the heatsink does seem to be some sort of metal particulate. It's not dust that would have just blown in.It's either the heatsink rusting itself. I know the pictures look bad, but the PC is remarkably clean. The case, PSU hard drives and cables would all pass as brand new. Just shit has literally hit the fan which has sprayed it around the immediate vicinity.

 

I live directly on the beach with humid temperatures exceeding 40 degrees celsius and I've never seen something like this.

[just that pc guy]

1 minute ago, Dredgy said:

This PC had been running for 2 years when I initially swapped the motherboard and there was no dust at all in the CPU fan at that time. Likewise I bought 100+ of identically configured PCs as an enterprise customer and none of them have had any issues of note, those are all clean.

 

My gaming PC builds up 50 times as much dust in under a week as this one has in over 3 years. The "dust" on top of the heatsink does seem to be some sort of metal particulate. It's not dust that would have just blown in.It's either the heatsink rusting itself.

 

I live directly on the beach with humid temperatures exceeding 40 degrees celsius and I've never seen something like this.

well danm. tbh i never have dealt with something like this, and i didnt even know it could happen, my guess would to get one of thoes case fan filters but i doubt it would do anything, its just a guess

[Dredgy]

Just now, just that pc guy said:

well danm. tbh i never have dealt with something like this, and i didnt even know it could happen, my guess would to get one of thoes case fan filters but i doubt it would do anything, its just a guess

Intakes and outtakes were both filtered with DEMCA filters. Sorry, that should probably have been mentioned earlier.