Family of man killed by his Model X on autopilot sues Tesla

[kuhnertdm]

Source: https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/01/tesla-sued-in-wrongful-death-lawsuit-that-alleges-autopilot-caused-crash/

 

Story: Apple engineer Walter Huang was killed after his Tesla Model X accelerated into and crashed into a highway median, and now his family is suing Tesla for a variety of allegations including "product liability, defective product design, failure to warn, breach of warranty, intentional and negligent misrepresentation and false advertising". They are also naming the California DoT in the suit, as they failed to replace a crash attenuator guard on the median after a previous crash there, which contributed to the damage on this crash.

 

After news of the crash surfaced back in March of 2018, Tesla was quick to release a public statement blaming Huang for the crash. They were a party to the National Transportation Safety Board investigation of the crash, and released a report of the incident without approval from the NTSB. This led to the NTSB voicing public disapproval of Tesla's actions, resulting in Musk attacking the safety board on Twitter. Subsequently, Tesla stated publicly that they withdrew from being a party in the investigation, but the NTSB later released a statement that this was not true, and they were actually removed from the investigation by the NTSB following their premature release of the report, in an effort to blame Huang.

 

The report released by Tesla indicates a few things about the crash. First, the incident occurred in literal broad daylight (used by Tesla as evidence that Huang was not paying attention, but could also be used as evidence that even in ideal conditions, autopilot is dangerous). Secondly, Tesla brought attention to the fact that the vehicle displayed multiple warnings for Huang having his hands off of the wheel for too long. The report shows that every one of these warnings happened more than 15 minutes before the crash. It also shows that Huang's hands were not detected as "on the wheel" for 34 of the 60 seconds before impact, and that there was no manual action taken to avoid the crash.

 

Opinion: It seems that the suit (if not settled, which I hope it won't be) is very quickly going to shift its focus to Tesla's advertising of autopilot functionality in its cars. Tesla's defense here is almost guaranteed to be "If you don't have perfect attention to the road and have your hands on the wheel at all times (Note: Defeating the purpose of autopilot), then we're not responsible if autopilot kills you". Hopefully this can be the case to shut that argument down, as Tesla's advertising thoroughly touts this as something that handles steering/braking/acceleration/etc for you, even down to the literal name of "autopilot" for a system that cannot be trusted to pilot you automatically, without killing you. I think the family's lawyer had the key line here: "Mrs. Huang lost her husband, and two children lost their father because Tesla is beta testing its Autopilot software on live drivers."

[Princess Luna]

I'm so not into auto-driving cars... I enjoy driving myself and say w/e you want we're still at very least a hundred years away from the "machines will be safer than humans on the wheel" thingy.

[Sychic]

Might be a poor joke but...

Look Ma, No hands!

 

[Sychic]

3 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

I'm so not into auto-driving cars... I enjoy driving myself and say w/e you want we're still at very least a hundred years away from the "machines will be safer than humans on the wheel" thingy.

Also, it'd have to be either all autopiloted cars or none. Otherwise the autopiloted cars won't be able to predict other humans that well. It'd be way safer if all cars were autopiloted.

[Fasauceome]

Tesla keeps having to remind people that their autopilot is just really good cruise control, and that you still are the driver. Increasing the warnings, reminders, and signals to continue paying attention to the road every time one of these accidents happen, and they still happen. 

[TVwazhere]

6 minutes ago, kuhnertdm said:

The report released by Tesla indicates a few things about the crash. First, the incident occurred in literal broad daylight (used by Tesla as evidence that Huang was not paying attention, but could also be used as evidence that even in ideal conditions, autopilot is dangerous). Secondly, Tesla brought attention to the fact that the vehicle displayed multiple warnings for Huang having his hands off of the wheel for too long. The report shows that every one of these warnings happened more than 15 minutes before the crash. It also shows that Huang's hands were not detected as "on the wheel" for 34 of the 60 seconds before impact, and that there was no manual action taken to avoid the crash.

If this is all true, in my mind this clears Tesla of most charges. The only way I can see this being Tesla's fault is if the autopilot CAUSED the crash, as most of the material I've seen on these cars says "driver participation is still needed" we're not yet at the point where we can tune out for half an hour. 

[Uptivuptiz]

4 minutes ago, Sychic said:

Look Ma, No hands!

*Laughs, then facepalms*

[yolosnail]

5 minutes ago, kuhnertdm said:

It also shows that Huang's hands were not detected as "on the wheel" for 34 of the 60 seconds before impact, and that there was no manual action taken to avoid the crash.

That alone is enough for the blame to be Huang's (in my opinion). When you get behind the wheel, you should be paying attention to what is going on around you, doesn't matter if you're in control or not. 

If he was paying attention, then he would have noticed that his car was driving towards a static object and taken appropriate action, but he didn't!

[The Benjamins]

3 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

I'm so not into auto-driving cars... I enjoy driving myself and say w/e you want we're still at very least a hundred years away from the "machines will be safer than humans on the wheel" thingy.

I feel that its more 10-20 years away, not 100.

 

5 minutes ago, kuhnertdm said:

STUFF

 

Opinion: It seems that the suit (if not settled, which I hope it won't be) is very quickly going to shift its focus to Tesla's advertising of autopilot functionality in its cars. Tesla's defense here is almost guaranteed to be "If you don't have perfect attention to the road and have your hands on the wheel at all times (Note: Defeating the purpose of autopilot), then we're not responsible if autopilot kills you". Hopefully this can be the case to shut that argument down, as Tesla's advertising thoroughly touts this as something that handles steering/braking/acceleration/etc for you, even down to the literal name of "autopilot" for a system that cannot be trusted to pilot you automatically, without killing you. I think the family's lawyer had the key line here: "Mrs. Huang lost her husband, and two children lost their father because Tesla is beta testing its Autopilot software on live drivers."

 

They system was never shown or stated to be a driver replacement, but a way for the driver to not have to drive for 90% of the trip, but to MANAGE the driving operation for that 90%. It shouldn't be hard to stay attentive while in a car, I always naturally do that as a driver or passenger. The systems warns people that appear to be distracted and warns that they must remain responsible for the safety of the car.

[TacoSenpai]

Its happening Skynet is taking over. 

[yolosnail]

2 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

It shouldn't be hard to stay attentive while in a car, I always naturally do that as a driver or passenger.

I pay more attention to the road than the driver when I'm a passenger because I don't trust other people's ability to drive

[FlappyBoobs]

1 minute ago, TacoSenpai said:

Its happening Skynet is taking over. 

More like skynet has been sending warning messages for a while saying it is going to obliterate the world, but the IT desk is busy catching up on Game of Thrones instead of reading the alert mails. 

[yolosnail]

1 minute ago, FlappyBoobs said:

More like skynet has been sending warning messages for a while saying it is going to obliterate the world, but the IT desk is busy catching up on Game of Thrones instead of reading the alert mails. 

That's a tomorrow you's problem!

[Sychic]

1 minute ago, yolosnail said:

That's a tomorrow you's problem!

Spoiler

 

[D13H4RD]

Autopilot is, at best, a Level 2 automous driving technology. That means the vehicle is capable of operating on its own under specific conditions but is not sophisticated/redundant enough to be able to completely take over under certain circumstances, requiring manual driver intervention. 

 

I don't really find fault with the Autopilot system itself as it works as would expected as a driver assistance system . What I'm questioning is Tesla's marketing and strategy for the system. Not too long ago, there was a firmware update that somehow undid the fix applied to the Autopilot software after this crash that would make the system less likely to turn towards dividers in dividing lanes. 

[Feranoks]

29 minutes ago, TacoSenpai said:

Its happening Skynet is taking over. 

And it's eliminating Apple employees! Coincidence?!

[Jito463]

35 minutes ago, TacoSenpai said:

Its happening Skynet is taking over. 

5 minutes ago, Feranoks said:

And it's eliminating Apple employees! Coincidence?!

Can't have two competing Skynet's, after all.

[RejZoR]

I don't understand the logic behind auto pilots. They say it's almost magical and can drive you pretty much all by itself. But they in the same breath say "but yeah, you need to be attentive and observing the road". Then what's the fucking point? I never had an issue with brake assist, lane assist, distance assist, speed limiter and stuff like that. Because all that is ON TOP of you PRIMARILY being fully engaged into driving and these features save your bacon when despite actively participating in driving you miss something.

 

Here, they don't seem to be exactly sure what they are selling us. And they can stick their auto driving taxis where sun doesn't shine. This shit is happening when it's expected from driver to be fully engaged in driving and they expect us to sit in the back of the car and be "relaxed". Yeah, good luck with that. Road traffic just has WAY too many variables. Computerized trains, subways and shit, sure, it's literally one way of driving it. Not so much with cars. It's interesting watching car drive all by itself. While not being in that car.

[Thaldor]

1 hour ago, kuhnertdm said:

Opinion: It seems that the suit (if not settled, which I hope it won't be) is very quickly going to shift its focus to Tesla's advertising of autopilot functionality in its cars. Tesla's defense here is almost guaranteed to be "If you don't have perfect attention to the road and have your hands on the wheel at all times (Note: Defeating the purpose of autopilot), then we're not responsible if autopilot kills you". Hopefully this can be the case to shut that argument down, as Tesla's advertising thoroughly touts this as something that handles steering/braking/acceleration/etc for you, even down to the literal name of "autopilot" for a system that cannot be trusted to pilot you automatically, without killing you. I think the family's lawyer had the key line here: "Mrs. Huang lost her husband, and two children lost their father because Tesla is beta testing its Autopilot software on live drivers."

Autopilot ≠ self-driving AI

 

Autopilot is everywhere something that requires human monitoring and management while performing its task. Planes today mostly fly the whole trip and even handle take-offs and landings with autopilot but it still needs pilots and co-pilots full attention because there's many factors that can change the situation to one where autopilot would make mistakes or couldn't work at all meaning the crew needs to be all the time ready to take the controls. Ships sail today with autopilots but there's still at least 1 to 3 crew members in the cockpit all the time monitoring radar, radio communication and being ready to take the wheel from the autopilot if there's any reason to do so. Why car autopilot would need to be any different?

 

Quite literally word "autopilot" means that the vehicle will stear, break and accelerate by it's own under human supervision and readiness to take the controls.

[RejZoR]

Bullshit, you're just calling it tomato with a different accent. AutoPilot means self driving. Otherwise they would call it "drive assist".

[CTR640]

Why are there cars with auto-pilot to begin with? Won't that cause the planet to have too much cars to increase deaths in traffic?

Or does Tesla simply care more about the money than the well-being of their customers?

[Sauron]

1 hour ago, kuhnertdm said:

Tesla's defense here is almost guaranteed to be "If you don't have perfect attention to the road and have your hands on the wheel at all times (Note: Defeating the purpose of autopilot), then we're not responsible if autopilot kills you".

It's also worth noting that even if you are 100% focused on the road you may not be able to prevent an accident caused by the autopilot. Suppose the car is driving at 130km/h on a highway - if it suddenly swerved into the barrier or into another car the human driver wouldn't have the time to react appropriately.

[Sauron]

2 minutes ago, CTR640 said:

Won't that cause the planet to have too much cars

What? Why?

[CTR640]

4 minutes ago, Sauron said:

What? Why?

Cars with auto-pilot are easily attractive to lazy "drivers".

[yolosnail]

Just now, Sauron said:

It's also worth noting that even if you are 100% focused on the road you may not be able to prevent an accident caused by the autopilot. Suppose the car is driving at 130km/h on a highway - if it suddenly swerved into the barrier or into another car the human driver wouldn't have the time to react appropriately.

Except if you have your hands on the wheel and pay attention, like you are supposed to, if the car suddenly turns the wheel, the pressure of your hands staying still is enough to disengage the AutoPilot system and for you to take control. The whole point of keeping your hands on the wheel is for you to basically drive the car with no effort. In an ideal world, the steering wheel should be turning exactly when you would have done it yourself, hence why if you put any force onto the wheel that it's not expecting, it cancels AutoPilot and expects you to take over