Is there gender inequality in IT or cyber security?

[TheoryInPractice]

Hello, first of all glad to meet you all, been planning to get to know this community I've heard pretty much only good things about

 A few days ago I started reading about IT since I'm planning to change my career and came upon interview with Dr. A. Estwick she's an ex NSA worker and has some inside knowledge about big corps. She outlined several times that there's fewer women in IT and especially in management positions, Is that true? I know few friends who are managers in IT companies but usually it's PR or HR, rarely I meet female developers. Then again, my social circle is narrow, so what do you think? Is this a problem to be addressed here, is climbing the corporate ladder in IT harder if you're a woman? And what personal traits would be the most important to become a successful developer?

[Ravendarat]

No I dont believe it is. If the number of applicants was equal between men and women but men held the majority of the jobs than it would be fair to say that there is a gender bias there, but thats not even close to the case. 

[Brennan Price]

First of all, I didn't really know how to word this, if I cause any offence it is not intentional. 

 

Nah, I wouldn't say its an issue in all honesty. If you go to any college or school and see how many people who are into IT or code etc, rarely do you see girls/women actively pursuing it. Take for example my IT class, it is full with guys, there's another set with only 3 girls and the rest are guys. Of course this is only one scenario and there are plenty of the opposite gender doing what they do in IT as well but there is a definite percentage of men in the industry that outweigh women greatly. 

 

I think the real issue lies in trying to get women into the IT industry, it would be great to see more of them and balance out IT teams and the like since I believe there would be a much better working environment. There is no bias, just less interest? no clue why nor do I know what causes this. 

 

At the same time... Us IT guys need to be more welcoming into IT and I feel that our help gets misconstrued into patronisation or what not most of the time, could be wrong though 

[wasab]

I studied computer science. All my major CS classes is roughly 80% male and 20% female. Same is true for other engineering discipline. Maybe we should convince more women to join the STEM fields instead of studying useless liberal arts/humanities like social work and sociology then complain there is a huge gender inequality. 

 

But on the other hand, if you are a guy and consider number of attractive women to be a major factor in your major decision, go study nursing or something. 

[Teddy07]

 

8 minutes ago, wasab said:

I studied computer science. All my major CS classes is roughly 80% male and 20% female.

1

Similar at my university but the number of females studying CS has risen continuously to maybe ~ 35%

 

5 minutes ago, wasab said:

Maybe we should convince more women to join the STEM fields instead of studying useless liberal arts/humanities like social work and sociology then complain there is a huge gender inequality. 

1

How?

A professor said that they thought about canceling the women's day where they can check out different STEM subjects. The attendance was too low but they never followed through so far. I guess they want to avoid public outcry these days.

[Guest]

Theres more gender inequality in commerce subjects, like Finance, Law etc. It's actually quite shocking when you hear about it - lots of cover ups too. Not much inequality in the sciences. 

[Slottr]

5 minutes ago, floofer said:

Theres more gender inequality in commerce subjects, like Finance, Law etc. It's actually quite shocking when you hear about it - lots of cover ups too. Not much inequality in the sciences. 

That's totally opposite where I'm from, my commerce college is 60/40 female/male and law is similar, but swapped

[Guest]

Just now, Slottr said:

That's totally opposite where I'm from, my commerce college is 60/40 female/male and law is similar, but swapped

Gender inequality is where females are given less opportunities in the workplace, or discriminated in some form due to their gender, not enrolment in courses. 

[wasab]

7 minutes ago, floofer said:

Gender inequality is where females are given less opportunities in the workplace, or discriminated in some form due to their gender, not enrolment in courses. 

If there is less representation of women in education of a particular field, you think there will be more representation in the industry related to that field?

 

I live in the USofA and here I believe lack of female representatives in Congress is because too few women are running for high level offices. Go check out the presidential cnadiate roasters for the next election. What is the ratio of male to female?

 

The industry works the same way. 

[Slottr]

4 minutes ago, floofer said:

Gender inequality is where females are given less opportunities in the workplace, or discriminated in some form due to their gender, not enrolment in courses. 

Sorry, what intended to say was something along the lines of times are changing yaddy yaddy ya- this change in college enrollment will start whittling out extreme inequality, as I think OP is referencing

[HarryNyquist]

The problem is that STEM in general is a male-dominated field. A few quotes earlier up in the thread said 80% male/20% female, which, in my experience, is accurate.

 

I think this male-dominance in the field, especially anecdotally, creates a vision of women not being able to make it in the field whatsoever. In reality, though, it couldn't be further from the truth. Some of the smartest programmers in my job are women. Hell from a broader STEM perspective, women like Marie Curie or Grace Hopper led the way in various fields with pioneering research into radiation and machine-independent programming languages.

 

There's a big disparity between the stories about women in STEM weaved by Liberal Arts majors, and the reality of women in STEM programs and positions.

[Nowak]

There does seem to be, at least in college. While I had plenty of women teachers, a majority of my classes were all-male or had just a single girl in them. Since I have yet to get a job out there in the real world, I'm not sure how it is out there, but I'm pretty sure that 80% male/20% female figure is accurate.

 

STEM fields tend to be largely male-dominated.

[ThePD]

In my college it was 231 males to 2 females, one of which who had dropped out after the first semester. The male to female ratio was over 231:1. There just seems to be an incredibly low amount of applicants in my area of females when it comes to IT.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, wasab said:

If there is less representation of women in education of a particular field, you think there will be more representation in the industry related to that field?

 

I live in the USofA and here I believe lack of female representatives in Congress is because too few women are running for high level offices. Go check out the presidential cnadiate roasters for the next election. What is the ratio of male to female?

 

The industry works the same way. 

So you are misunderstanding inequality. Inequality is where women have an unequal opportunity based on their gender, so they have to compete harder against men to attain the same role. 

20 minutes ago, Slottr said:

Sorry, what intended to say was something along the lines of times are changing yaddy yaddy ya- this change in college enrollment will start whittling out extreme inequality, as I think OP is referencing

Thats very dependable on the subject, and circumstances, not due to inequality, that's inequity. 

[poochyena]

There aren't many jobs that have 50/50 gender split other than fast food or retail work.

[wasab]

1 hour ago, floofer said:

So you are misunderstanding inequality. Inequality is where women have an unequal opportunity based on their gender, so they have to compete harder against men to attain the same role. 

Thats very dependable on the subject, and circumstances, not due to inequality, that's inequity. 

Why would you believe IT industry has this problem tho? 

 

To be honest, things like this is inevitable in some industry. If I'm a man, I am going to have a hard time finding jobs like wet nurse, beauty pageant contestant, or the Queen of England. Reason should be obvious... 

 

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, wasab said:

Why would you believe IT industry has this problem tho? 

I don’t believe it does, I said not in the sciences, more in commerce, law.

7 minutes ago, wasab said:

To be honest, things like this is inevitable in some industry. If I'm a man, I am going to have a hard time finding jobs like wet nurse, beauty pageant contestant, or the Queen of England. Reason should be obvious... 

 

 

But in occupations like a Lawyer going for a particular famous firm, or getting an internship for a famous company, stuff like that.

[Mug]

6 hours ago, Brennan_Price said:

First of all, I didn't really know how to word this, if I cause any offence it is not intentional. 

 

Nah, I wouldn't say its an issue in all honesty. If you go to any college or school and see how many people who are into IT or code etc, rarely do you see girls/women actively pursuing it. Take for example my IT class, it is full with guys, there's another set with only 3 girls and the rest are guys. Of course this is only one scenario and there are plenty of the opposite gender doing what they do in IT as well but there is a definite percentage of men in the industry that outweigh women greatly. 

 

I think the real issue lies in trying to get women into the IT industry, it would be great to see more of them and balance out IT teams and the like since I believe there would be a much better working environment. There is no bias, just less interest? no clue why nor do I know what causes this. 

 

At the same time... Us IT guys need to be more welcoming into IT and I feel that our help gets misconstrued into patronisation or what not most of the time, could be wrong though 

So is this not a societal issue then, why are women pursuing more artsy subjects rather than technical subjects?

Like I'm a prime example, as a Chemistry teacher myself, and my girlfriend works in the council's public health department. In the past I've been in the petrochemical and pharmaceutical industry, and she's been a librarian and an HR lady.

 

If it really was equal we'd see girls take these more technical and scientific subjects, but what tends to happen is they're not taken as seriously in them. I've seen this in the classroom right from kids coming from primary school, they're just not confident in their answers - and not being confident affects them moving up. By contrast, boys tend to be more cocky and confident in Science, regardless of knowledge. My theory is that in subjects like History or English there is no real correct answer, which appeals to less confident people more - whereas in Science and Maths, the right answer is the correct one which isn't going to appeal to people that aren't confident enough to get things wrong. This needs to change but current methods like using green pens for everything and insinuating that everything anyone says is right just isn't cutting it, these methods just put down standards.

[wasab]

19 minutes ago, floofer said:

I don’t believe it does, I said not in the sciences, more in commerce, law.

But in occupations like a Lawyer going for a particular famous firm, or getting an internship for a famous company, stuff like that.

If men are the ones hiring and applicant is an attractive woman, I believe the odds would be in her favor that she would be hire over a man. 

[mr moose]

22 minutes ago, floofer said:

I don’t believe it does, I said not in the sciences, more in commerce, law.

But in occupations like a Lawyer going for a particular famous firm, or getting an internship for a famous company, stuff like that.

 

The problem with law especially is that traits like agreeableness make it much harder to move up the ladder.  More woman are agreeable than men, which means they have to work a lot harder to been seen as combative and demanding enough to be able to hold their ground in a legal battle.  Lawyers are not known for their nurturing nature.  In many ways it's the exact same problem men have in primary education, they are seen as aggressors and controlling which means they have to work a lot harder to be considered as caring role models for young children. 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, wasab said:

If men are the ones hiring and applicant is an attractive woman, I believe the odds would be in her favor that she would be hire over a man. 

Not in my experience in the NZ system, its men who get ahead quicker. I don't study commerce or law or whatnot so I'm not really knowledgeable, but its the general trend. There is however a lot of harassment that gets swept under the table. I just don't want to get involved in any of that sector. 

[Andreas Lilja]

90 % of nurses are women = that's just how it is. 

90 % of men in construction = something needs to be done. 

[imreloadin]

Can we please finally get off this stupid bandwagon of "inequality" in the gender diversity of people who are in a specific job sector? Can't we all just finally acknowledge that the people who are in said job are those who want to be there?

[Drak3]

10 hours ago, TheoryInPractice said:

She outlined several times that there's fewer women in IT and especially in management positions, Is that true?

Yes, because there are fewer women interested in that field.

[SenKa]

I am treading very lightly by responding to this topic... Keep it civil yall, mods watch topics like these with a hawks eye.

 

There is gender inequality, but it's unavoidable both socially and genetically.

 

Every modern civilization with a few very specific exceptions have deemed women lesser beings due to religion. Being kind, I would say this change is true as of the transition to AD. To this point, it has been a habit of 2,019 years. Breaking a social habit takes twice or three times as long as it took to build. Come back to me in 6057 and see where we are.

 

Is gender inequality correct in its existence? It depends.

 

In physically strenuous lines of work, yes. It is a scientific fact that a man more easily builds and maintains muscle. Thusly, they would be more consistently efficient in a job where that muscle is required. In terms of pay, no reasonable business would pay two people the same if one does even 80% the work of the other. It doesn't make sense.

 

The body of a man and woman are different and are made for different needs. Women who attempt to mimic the "jobs of a man" are actually endangering or causing harm to their bodies without knowing.

 

Inequality is the wrong word for most of "gender inequality", in the end. The correct term is gender predisposition.

 

Women are not above or below men. Genetically, both are vastly different and neither can function without the existence of the other.