Power Outlets PISSES LINUS OFF. [Discussion]

[CharminUltraStrong]

2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

-snip-

You're missing the point. I shouldn't have to pay for changing my outlets becuase the government says so, becuase they were deemed safe and were government approved. A transition to a unified plug would take a hundred years in the US. 

[Stefan Payne]

19 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

If you mean an actual electric kettle? Jesus 2000W is insane. Typical ones here are 1200W and that's more than enough.

1850-2200W for me on "230"VAC.

So typical ones over here are almoust double the power than yours are.

 

So the 2000W aren't that insane, when you have double the voltage

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

So the 2000W aren't that insane, when you have double the voltage

2000W isn't insane in the US either. 15A isn't super common for outlets, 20A is.

[Stefan Payne]

4 minutes ago, CharminUltraStrong said:

You're missing the point. I shouldn't have to pay for changing my outlets becuase the government says so,

No, you have to change them because new products come with a more modern/better plug than your old one.

So you either have to buy an adaptor or replace the outlet.

The "normal person" might buy the Adaptor.

The smart one that has an electrical background the Outlet.,

 

Quote

becuase they were deemed safe and were government approved.

The "Kragenstecker" was deemed safe and gouvernment approved at one time.

Until those plugs met the farmers, who filed off the nose and pluged it in backwards, wich might have led to some deaths.

Because of that that plug was deemed unsafe and had to be replaced. It is very uncommon in German history that you had to retrofit installations.

That is the only one I remember.

Someone said there might have been another one but I don't remember that one.

Quote

A transition to a unified plug would take a hundred years in the US. 

No it would not.

It can go quicker, when your new stuff doesn't work no more or you have to have an adaptor. 

Though you have two problems: Low voltage and garbage plugs.

[Mihle]

40 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

In Europe, one single phase outlet can pump out 3680W of power (230V * 16A or 3840W where 240V is used). Plugs (called "Schuko") are also designed in such a way that plug contacts don't make contact with the outlet until the gap between plug and socket is closed entirely, meaning you can't ever touch live plug pins if you plug it in only half way and stick a metal object in between (because it's physically impossible). The slim plugs (called: "Europlug") without grounding also have only tips of the contacts exposed where rest of the actual pin is insulated to prevent that as well during partial insertion. Both are bidirectional or reversible (like USB Type C) which makes them much more versatile and easy to use compared to British or American ones because they can be plugged only one way (like micro USB).

 

American type is really very insecure type of plugs from technical perspective, but they are a bit nicer looking on chargers for phones and stuff because they can be very small, because they sack all the safety concerns.

I know?

[Mihle]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

A 2000W space heater sounds good in theory, but is not a great way to heat a space (especially one large enough to actually need a 2000W space heater). A 2000W vacuum would be interesting. Industrial strength, pretty much.

 

A typical Upright canister vacuum (A "normal" vacuum here) uses maybe 1400W.

Correct - while the circuit can technically handle up to 1875W maximum (125V at 15A on the upper end), you're not supposed to have a constant draw above 1500W. But that's only for stuff you'd plug into a regular socket. Large appliances regularly go over that limit, because they're on their own 220V circuit.

What is a "water kettle"? Are you talking about a hot water heater for your "hot" water pipes? If so, in the US (And Canada, because I'm not American), those are typically on their own circuits on a higher voltage - a standard hot water tank can be upwards of 5500W.

 

If you mean an actual electric kettle? Jesus 2000W is insane. Typical ones here are 1200W and that's more than enough.

 

Besides that, the guy I was quoting was talking about his bedroom.

 

Btw, I don't have any actual heaters that is more than 1200w myself, but I have seen 2000 w at least once, that used a normal socket/plug. It's probably not common, but it does exist. Currently the place I live is heated mostly with electric heating cables that ofc have no plugs/socket. (Pluss pan heaters on the bedrooms, but they aren't actually used that much, they use plugs/socket tho)

 

Yes, most vacuums is probably 1500w or something(O am not sure, I am not really in to vacuums), but I just looked, the one in this house is actually 2200W, I would not consider it industrial, but it's quite powerful (not me that bough it). It might be more than you need tho, and I don't know how efficient it it's, it's older and puts out quite a bit of heat.... Might be overkill, I don't know. It was not me that bought it

btw, those upright one solid thing vacuums is not common here, those that is a box on small wheels with a flexible tube to a hand hold thing is

 

there is no hot water pipes in my house. I mean actual electric kettle that you heat water to make tea from or whatever Its my mum that bought it, I didnt, it is probably overkill, it's supposed to be a really good one(she told me that) that's probably why it's 2000w. I don't remember a normal weaker one, but this one once you start it, water starts to make noises and tiny bubbles start to form at the bottom and rise to the top only after maybe 4-5 sec. But I don't know. Btw, if you want to know it's name, it's a Smeg  one.

 

I didn't read what the person you answered said I think, sorry for that

 

EDIT: correction, water kettle actually says 2000-2400w

[RejZoR]

1 hour ago, Mihle said:

I know?

The other 99,9% of this forum doesn't given majority is from USA and Canada...

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

2000W isn't insane in the US either. 15A isn't super common for outlets, 20A is.

For residential? I straight up don't believe you. I could definitely see that being the case with commercial and industrial applications (For those that don't need higher voltages, specifically). We have some NEMA 5-20R outlets here at work, but both at home, and in any home I've ever been in (both US and Canada), I've never once seen a 5-20P outlet in a house.

 

I'm certain some have them, but I can't possibly imagine they're common.

[Drak3]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

For residential? I straight up don't believe you.

I don't care.

 

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

I'm certain some have them, but I can't possibly imagine they're common.

Using a "15A" outlet doesn't mean the entire curcuit is limited to 15A.

[dalekphalm]

Just now, Drak3 said:

I don't care.

Evidently.

Just now, Drak3 said:

Using a "15A" outlet doesn't mean the entire curcuit is limited to 15A.

You're the one who said outlet:

 

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

2000W isn't insane in the US either. 15A isn't super common for outlets, 20A is.

The circuit might be wired for 20A - but if the outlet's are NEMA 5-15P outlets, then it's still effectively 15A.

 

And even then, I'm reluctant to believe most houses are wired for 20A circuits even when only using 15A outlets. I could see certain appliance circuits wired for 20A. But this conversation is about regular consumer outlets, not specialized appliances where there might only be one or two outlets wired that way.

[Drak3]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

but if the outlet's are NEMA 5-15P outlets, then it's still effectively 15A.

No, it's not. 20A and 15A outlets only differ in the artificial limitation that they cannot accept a plug variant. One can still safely draw 20A from the outlet with a multitap.

 

2 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

You're the one who said outlet

I'm not responcible for your misunderstanding.

[Kroon]

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

If you mean an actual electric kettle? Jesus 2000W is insane. Typical ones here are 1200W and that's more than enough.

 

Actually 2200W is common for a electric kettle here.

One of the most sold ones:

 

[TechyBen]

What, you mean you don't have a 3KW kettle?

https://www.hughes.co.uk/product/small-appliances/small-kitchen-appliances/kettles/russell-hobbs/24362?c=365

 

(Though these ones are nice, boil on demand)

Mine is a glass one, I can watch the nuclear fusion take place as it gets hotter than the sun... you know, here in the old Britain, where we are backwards. XD

 

[dalekphalm]

18 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

No, it's not. 20A and 15A outlets only differ in the artificial limitation that they cannot accept a plug variant. One can still safely draw 20A from the outlet with a multitap.

Sure you can - but why in god's name would you want to draw more than 15A from a 15A socket? If you're doing that, you should probably just replace your outlets with proper NEMA 5-20R outlets. That way anyone using the outlet would know it's rated for 20A, even if the device they are using uses less power.

18 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I'm not responcible for your misunderstanding.

I don't think it was a misunderstanding, so much as you were not clear at all what you were saying.

 

Furthermore I see no evidence that what you're describing is common, like you earlier suggested. With that in mind, I will ask my Electrician father about it - if it's common, he'd know.

[RejZoR]

Remember kids, it's not the voltage that kills you, it's the amps

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Remember kids, it's not the voltage that kills you, it's the amps

Nah, it's the knife wielding psycho that kills you.

[dalekphalm]

32 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Remember kids, it's not the voltage that kills you, it's the amps

True but higher voltage isn't exactly good for you  I'd rather take 10A at 5V instead of at 200V.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

True but higher voltage isn't exactly good for you  I'd rather take 10A at 5V instead of at 200V.

You cannot take 10A with 5V source  that's basically how it works, the actual amount depends on the resistance of your skin and if AC or DC

Edited February 22, 2019 by Guest

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, Lukyp said:

You cannot take 10A with 5V source  that's basically how it works, the actual amount depends on the resistance of your skin and if AC or DC

Wh... what?

 

Of course you can - you can essentially engineer a power source to provide almost any amperage at any voltage. I didn't say it was a common Amperage amount, or one you'd find in the wild

Though I imagine 5V at 10A isn't very safe, since we associate 5V with low power devices, etc.

[mariushm]

You can die with a 9v battery - in fact there's a documented case in the navy where a guy died from something stupid he did (heart started to beat incorrectly and couldn't get electric shock to stabilize his heart in time and died, something like that)

 

It's not current and it's not voltage that kills you, it's both.  It also matters if your skin resistance is high, if there's humidity in the air, if you have cuts in your skin (copper wire strands pricking your skin can happen)

 

In general you want the currents low, because you have the classic Ohm's law .. Voltage  = Current x Resistance ... if the resistance of the power cable is fixed (depends on thickness of cable and material), more current means more losses on the cable.  That's why you have transmission lines working with 10kV and higher, because they can carry loads of energy with small currents and low losses over big distances.

 

Somewhat related in a funny way

 

 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Though I imagine 5V at 10A isn't very safe, since we associate 5V with low power devices, etc.

The fact is the ohm law tells us: I = V/R so even if the source can deliver 5V and 10A the human skin has an high resistance and you will barely take any reasonable amount of current

Low power devices cannot deliver a lot of current anyway, but it's the reason why 12V car batteries are dangerous, they can deliver up to 500A and set a fire if a short occurs, won't hurt you but will definitely start a car
DC is also "safer" than AC for the human skin

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, Lukyp said:

The fact is the ohm law tells us: I = V/R so even if the source can deliver 5V and 10A the human skin has an high resistance and you will barely take any reasonable amount of current

The fact is low power devices cannot deliver a lot of current anyway, it's the reason why 12V car batteries are dangerous, they can deliver up to 500A and set a fire if a short occurs

Oh I see, you're saying that 10A over 5V would be unable to overcome the resistance of skin. I can agree with this (though I haven't done the math or looked at any specific sources, so I'll take your word that 5V @ 10A is specifically too low resistance to be dangerous).

 

The way you worded it, it made it sound like you were saying that 5V could not deliver 10A, which is a ridiculous assertion.

[Stefan Payne]

6 minutes ago, mariushm said:

It's not current and it's not voltage that kills you, it's both. 

Its also the way it takes.

For example if a bit flows from your pinky to your thumb, it hurts like hell but chance to survive are high.

 

If the current flows form your left pinky to the right one, well, you're screwed...

[Guest]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

Oh I see, you're saying that 10A over 5V would be unable to overcome the resistance of skin. I can agree with this (though I haven't done the math or looked at any specific sources, so I'll take your word that 5V @ 10A is specifically too low resistance to be dangerous).

 

The way you worded it, it made it sound like you were saying that 5V could not deliver 10A, which is a ridiculous assertion.

Nono it can xD, I was just referring to the human body

You can also try to set a fire if you short with some thin copper cable with a low power battery with the heat generated

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, Lukyp said:

Nono it can xD, I was just referring to the human body

kk we good

2 minutes ago, Lukyp said:

You can also try to set a fire if you short with some thin copper cable with a low power battery with the heat generated

Yes. Let's not do that (Unless for fun!)