Wait for 3rd gen ryzen or get 8600k?

[Smiles4Miles]

So I currently have an i3 8100, and would like an upgrade soon. I am wondering if I should upgrade to the 8600k/9600k, or wait for 3rd gen ryzen? BTW I have 3200 mhz ram and a 1060 6gb,

[dizmo]

If you can afford to wait, wait. If you want something now, that's a fine choice, though I'd personally try to find an 8700.

You'll always get more performance by waiting.

[Smiles4Miles]

Just now, dizmo said:

If you can afford to wait, wait. If you want something now, that's a fine choice, though I'd personally try to find an 8700.

You'll always get more performance by waiting.

Ok. What do you mean by find an 8700? Like search on Ebay or Craigslist? Or and for Extra Info I stream and do the occasional video

[suchamoneypit]

If you don't want it urgently, just wait for Ryzen 3. If you really want an upgrade, buy a used 8700 from ebay or something. The 6 cores/12 threads will really help you over over your current 4 core/4 threads especially for streaming. Once you get the 8700, you can sell your 8100. Once Ryzen 3 comes out, if you want the power, buy it then, and sell your 8700 with its motherboard to recoup most of the costs of the upgrade. Then you can enjoy great performance now, and not spend a fortune switching to Ryzen 3.

[Smiles4Miles]

1 minute ago, suchamoneypit said:

If you don't want it urgently, just wait for Ryzen 3. If you really want an upgrade, buy a used 8700 from ebay or something. The 6 cores/12 threads will really help you over over your current 4 core/4 threads especially for streaming. Once you get the 8700, you can sell your 8100. Once Ryzen 3 comes out, if you want the power, buy it then, and sell your 8700 with its motherboard to recoup most of the costs of the upgrade. Then you can enjoy great performance now, and not spend a fortune switching to Ryzen 3.

another good reason to wait for ryzen for me is that my x16 slot is dead for my gpu. so i have to use x4 for now.

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

2 minutes ago, Smiles4Miles said:

another good reason to wait for ryzen for me is that my x16 slot is dead for my gpu. so i have to use x4 for now.

the only reason upgrade to intel chip only is because you already have the mobo,

now its not a limitation, get ryzen for sure 2nd / 3rd gen.

Intel has very limited upgrade path for cpu, and this is what you are experiencing now.

[Smiles4Miles]

2 minutes ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

the only reason upgrade to intel chip only is because you already have the mobo,

now its not a limitation, get ryzen for sure 2nd / 3rd gen.

Intel has very limited upgrade path for cpu, and this is what you are experiencing now.

ah. thx. ill wait till summer for 3rd gen.

[suchamoneypit]

3 minutes ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

the only reason upgrade to intel chip only is because you already have the mobo,

now its not a limitation, get ryzen for sure 2nd / 3rd gen.

Intel has very limited upgrade path for cpu, and this is what you are experiencing now.

This is why I always recommend Ryzen to my friends and constantly build their computers using it. I get them a good motherboard and RAM and they have so many upgrade options. Although Intel surely has the single-core/gaming performance title, the reduced cost, better multi-thread performance, and awesome upgrade path Ryzen has far outweigh the better single-core performance Intel has for any user imo.

[Smiles4Miles]

Just now, suchamoneypit said:

This is why I always recommend Ryzen to my friends and constantly build their computers using it. I get them a good motherboard and RAM and they have so many upgrade options. Although Intel surely has the single-core/gaming performance title, the reduced cost, better multi-thread performance, and awesome upgrade path far outweigh the better single-core performance for any user.

when i built my pc, I was purely using it for gaming. so the i3 was good. but now I need something better.

[JammyCreedog]

I'd go for a core i7 8700 k/or(non k) either one. It will just drop in and be a beast.  AMD 7nm in the Radeon VII is slightly disappointing, but hey, i've been wrong before.  I'd say go with the proven performer i7.

[Smiles4Miles]

6 minutes ago, JammyCreedog said:

I'd go for a core i7 8700 k/or(non k) either one. It will just drop in and be a beast.  AMD 7nm in the Radeon VII is slightly disappointing, but hey, i've been wrong before.  I'd say go with the proven performer i7.

well, the 8700 is 450 compared to the 2600x as of rn it it 280. cad btw. is the preformance worth that price?

[JammyCreedog]

6 hours ago, Smiles4Miles said:

well, the 8700 is 450 compared to the 2600x as of rn it it 280. cad btw. is the preformance worth that price?

Don't forget to add the price of a new motherboard to the ryzen cpu. And, yes even 2 or 3 generations ago Intel parts (all still 14nm/16nm fab) will game far better than AMD chips due to higher ipc and turbo boost frequencies. Shop around, the i7 8700 non k should be a lil over $300 US where the i5 8600K is around $240. Its the new 9th gen i9 parts that should be around $500 US. Like I said, comparison shop a bunch, $450 sounds very high for last generation parts.

 

Edit: just be sure that you are purchasing an 8th gen intel cpu to replace your 8th gen core i3. Intel messed with the chipset and the 9th gen cpu's will NOT work in 8th gen motherboards.

[Smiles4Miles]

On 2/12/2019 at 5:43 AM, JammyCreedog said:

Don't forget to add the price of a new motherboard to the ryzen cpu. And, yes even 2 or 3 generations ago Intel parts (all still 14nm/16nm fab) will game far better than AMD chips due to higher ipc and turbo boost frequencies. Shop around, the i7 8700 non k should be a lil over $300 US where the i5 8600K is around $240. Its the new 9th gen i9 parts that should be around $500 US. Like I said, comparison shop a bunch, $450 sounds very high for last generation parts.

 

Edit: just be sure that you are purchasing an 8th gen intel cpu to replace your 8th gen core i3. Intel messed with the chipset and the 9th gen cpu's will NOT work in 8th gen motherboards.

ok. another reason for me to get ryzen, is that my x16 gpu slot is shot. I use the x4. also, I would get a mobo for ryzen that uses all of my 3200mhz ram, because my mobo now downclocks it to 2133mhz. the mobo it use is the gigabyte h370m d3h

[Stefan Payne]

47 minutes ago, Smiles4Miles said:

ok. another reason for me to get ryzen, is that my x16 gpu slot is shot

What MoBo do you use?
That either means the CPU is shot or the MoBo, depending on the Model...

[JammyCreedog]

30 minutes ago, Smiles4Miles said:

ok. another reason for me to get ryzen, is that my x16 gpu slot is shot. I use the x4. also, I would get a mobo for ryzen that uses all of my 3200mhz ram, because my mobo now downclocks it to 2133mhz. the mobo it use is the gigabyte h370m d3h

Ok, yeah that mobo is kinda crap. AMD is rumored to be supporting ryzen 3000 cpu's on current AM4 socket motherboards with just a bios flash update needed. You could get a nicer full feature AM4 motherboard and just get a placeholder cpu. That way you'll be all set when the new chips drop. I like the Asus Prime X470-Pro. It'll take any ryzen cpu on the market. You could get a ryzen 3 2200g for under $100 but if you are going to sell it in 4 months, I think you'd have an easier time unloading a used Ryzen 5 2600 and getting your money back out of it..

 

[Smiles4Miles]

3 hours ago, JammyCreedog said:

Ok, yeah that mobo is kinda crap. AMD is rumored to be supporting ryzen 3000 cpu's on current AM4 socket motherboards with just a bios flash update needed. You could get a nicer full feature AM4 motherboard and just get a placeholder cpu. That way you'll be all set when the new chips drop. I like the Asus Prime X470-Pro. It'll take any ryzen cpu on the market. You could get a ryzen 3 2200g for under $100 but if you are going to sell it in 4 months, I think you'd have an easier time unloading a used Ryzen 5 2600 and getting your money back out of it..

 

Well, i dont have money to waste away. Im 12 years old so i wanna wait or buy soon. I dont have an allowance as well. So i would probably end up getting a b450 mobo

[Smiles4Miles]

4 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

What MoBo do you use?
That either means the CPU is shot or the MoBo, depending on the Model...

Gigabyte h370m d3h with an i3 8100

[Stefan Payne]

3 hours ago, Smiles4Miles said:

Gigabyte h370m d3h with an i3 8100

Yeah, sucks.

But to be honest, I'd save money put it in that little piggybank and look how it looks in Summer, when the next big thing comes out and get something you can afford then...

[Smiles4Miles]

On 2/14/2019 at 12:45 AM, Stefan Payne said:

Yeah, sucks.

But to be honest, I'd save money put it in that little piggybank and look how it looks in Summer, when the next big thing comes out and get something you can afford then...

I am also saving for a bigger desk and an nzxt h500 case. The wraith spire cooler also looks ten million times better than the stock intel cooler

[Mister Woof]

I would hold out as long as you can with what you have.

 

I'm not a very big proponent of "upgrade path" because my opinion is that if you made informed buying decisions to begin with, generally, your hardware will last much longer than the $/performance benefit would warrant.

 

Example, I am presuming the op is gaming, and wants better gaming results.

 

Sure, he could upgrade to a 9900k or switch platforms to Ryzen.

 

Invariably there will be people who come in here with the "haha this is why AMD is better because upgrade path!"

 

But the truth is, if OP got either an 8400/1600 or better (either platform) there would be no need for upgrading at all, and more money would have been saved and better performance would have been experienced this whole time, for marginal increase in original system cost.

 

OP - hold onto it as long as you can and upgrade when you have to or you find a good deal on a second hand 8400, 8600k, 8700, or 8700k.

[ch3w2oy]

25 minutes ago, Plutosaurus said:

Why did you get the 8100 to begin with?

 

If you got the 8700k at the start we wouldn't be having this discussion

He/she is 12 and probably got what they could afford.. 

 

Glad to see you posting, I missed you

[Mister Woof]

Just now, ChewToy! said:

He/she is 12 and probably got what they could afford.. 

 

Glad to see you posting, I missed you

I edited it to be a bit less standoffish.

[ch3w2oy]

10 minutes ago, Plutosaurus said:

I edited it to be a bit less standoffish.

Just to let you know, the only reason Ryzen is being considered is because his/her boards x16 slot isn't working, which could be his CPU..But he's using the x4 slot ATM so he/she is considering all options moving forward. If they could just drop in an 8700, it wouldn't be a big deal..

 

Quote

But the truth is, if OP got either an 8400/1600 or better (either platform) there would be no need for upgrading at all, and more money would have been saved and better performance would have been experienced this whole time, for marginal increase in original system cost.1

You have to admit, if you got a 1600, and then were able to upgrade around 4th gen, there could be quite a noticeable bump in performance. It's not like you have to upgrade once they're released, but it gives you more options down the road. Just from 1600 to 2600X is a 13% boost (obviously you don't upgrade every generation). So with the same motherboard it will probably get a performance bump similar to a 2600K I7 going to a 7700K I7 (40% increase). I used userbenchmark.com as reference. So yes, this is why upgrade paths are important. Of course you could get something that's great for the next 6 years. But getting something that allows "more" upgrades will take that 6 years to 10+ years.

 

Just saying, you don't have to reply. Everyone has their own opinions and I respect yours.  

[Mister Woof]

26 minutes ago, ChewToy! said:

Just to let you know, the only reason Ryzen is being considered is because his/her boards x16 slot isn't working, which could be his CPU..But he's using the x4 slot ATM so he/she is considering all options moving forward. If they could just drop in an 8700, it wouldn't be a big deal..

 

You have to admit, if you got a 1600, and then were able to upgrade around 4th gen, there could be quite a noticeable bump in performance. It's not like you have to upgrade once they're released, but it gives you more options down the road. Just from 1600 to 2600X is a 13% boost (obviously you don't upgrade every generation). So with the same motherboard it will probably get a performance bump similar to a 2600K I7 going to a 7700K I7 (40% increase). I used userbenchmark.com as reference. So yes, this is why upgrade paths are important. Of course you could get something that's great for the next 6 years. But getting something that allows "more" upgrades will take that 6 years to 10+ years.

 

Just saying, you don't have to reply. Everyone has their own opinions and I respect yours.  

You've got the right to your own opinion. That's why I prefaced my statement with "in my opinion".

 

I think the absolute performance numbers can be a bit misleading, in terms of real-world application. Example being, a 13% increase in performance from a 1600 to 2600 isn't going to let you achieve anything your 1600 couldn't already do.

Let's take your example of the 2600k to a 7700k....there is a pretty large performance boost. But we're looking at a chip that released in 2011. The 7700k came out in 2017? That's 6 years later. The 7700k is better. Much better. But the 2600k even in 2018 still performs....admirably. The i3-2100...not so much. In that scenario, "buy once cry once" would have really paid off. It performed just fine for about 3-4 generations of GPUs. 

 

The difference between Ryzen 1600/2600/3600 (presuming it is similar performance to the 9900k) just isn't big enough to push you into breakthrough levels. At least, not on its own, and not without spending a lot of money on a GPU anyway.

 

I'll give my personal experience with "buy once cry once" and how it bit me in the ass. If you look at my signature, my daughter's PC is my old computer. It is an i5-4570. I cheaped out and got the 4570 with a locked mini ITX motherboard. It was "fine" for what I needed it for back then, but over time, it didn't age very well. Sure, it's about as good as a Ryzen 3 1300x, but compared to the venerable i7-2600k it still trailed behind. If I spent the extra $200 then, and got the i7-4770k with a better board, I would probably still be using it today.

 

I would have probably skipped the whole 8th and 9th generation of intel, and could have held out until Ryzen 3000. That's a lot of money.

 

But then you can't really with certainty guess what is to come. At this point, we know that Ryzen 3000 is going to perform quite well. But in 2016, when we were ramping up for Ryzen 1, nobody knew. AM3 had a huge "upgrade path", but the overall benefit from those upgrades was pretty nonexistent. I had a Phenom IIX4 965, and it performed better than the FX-6300. The AM3+ platform didn't help much at all, there.

 

So I guess my point is, "upgrade path" is an uncertainty and excuse for not buying the right tool for the job right now, and "buy once cry once" saves you money in the long run vs. numerous piecemeal upgrades over time.

 

I'm not planning on upgrading my wife's Ryzen 5 1600 at all - as long as it can hold 60fps at 1080p, it will meet its purpose. It will probably need a GPU in a few years to keep that goalpost but that's fine. 

That is, of course, just my opinion.

[ch3w2oy]

5 minutes ago, Plutosaurus said:

 

I completely agree. I think it really comes down to what someone wants out of their PC. Every situation is different. If someone can afford a 9700K and a nice Z390 board, then great, I'll only mention Ryzen has a better upgrade path but that's still a solid choice, because it is. It's a great processor and doesn't need an upgrade path, like you said. BUT, not everyone can afford that setup from the start. When I built my system, I researched for a little over a month and once I went to buy, I noticed the 9th gen Intels were released and believe me, I tried to make it work. I wanted Intel. But I wasn't getting anything less than a 9700K/8700K with a great motherboard. I didn't even go Ryzen because of the upgrade path, that was a bonus I later found out about. I got the best I COULD AFFORD at the time. I built my PC around Black Friday. Also, it's worth noting, I would never have bought AMD before Ryzen, lol.

 

To be fair, if I knew I was spending what I did on my setup, I probably would have went Intel. But this is what I was aiming for when I built my system:

 

2600 (got the 2600x for same price as 2600 on black friday)

B450 Strix

Used Vega 56

Case on sale

No cooler

Carry over NVMe drive from laptop

G3 Gold 650w on sale for $49

 

That right there is a solid budget gaming/streaming setup with a great upgrade path for when I can afford better. At that price range, the Ryzen was the better option than Intels 8400 that was priced closest to the 2600X that I bought, since I don't just game Yea, my sig shows different, but that's because after I received everything I had, with the holiday return period extended to January 31st, I kept convincing my girlfriend to help get me better parts, lol.

 

This is why I now believe in upgrade paths, I'm not made of money, so it helps people like me and the even less fortunate. A lot of people on this forum are still building out their PCs over time, some with crappy CPUs as place holders because they NEED a computer NOW, but want something better in a few months/years..

 

Like I said, I respect your opinion and I do agree with both options depending on what the person needs and what they can afford. If you have the money, YES, you get the best on the market, period, fuck upgrade paths. I don't think that's most people though..Even though I see quite a lot of 2080 tis being sold, so maybe I'm just broke compared to everyone else, I don't know anymore. Not sure if this even makes sense at this point. I need coffee.