Is this $11.19 Windows 10 Pro a legit fully-featured, uncompromised copy ?

[Multiversal]

I am actually stunned to see this direct $120 off. Just wanna know if it'll work exactly as Windows 10 Pro should and will it get all future updates? I hope this isn't a scam.

[Shimejii]

Most of these sites use unused keys and such, they generally work and are fine, and if you have issues they can get another key.

[TrigrH]

you may need to use phone activation, thats all

[Multiversal]

8 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

Most of these sites use unused keys and such, they generally work and are fine, and if you have issues they can get another key.

Okay so this is just the key. Where should I get the trial setup or whatever where I'm supposed to enter that key ?

Always used pirated.

[Multiversal]

7 minutes ago, TrigrH said:

you may need to use phone activation, thats all

how'll that play out?

[Shimejii]

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10 or phone activation

[Tristerin]

16 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

They're OEM keys and technically illegal to use.

Lets be specific - its ILLEGAL for them to sell this OEM key.  Its perfectly legal for me to buy, and use an OEM key.  Their EULA means nothing.

[Tristerin]

3 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

And, your key is more likely to also be revoked because it violates the EULA.

 

Never in my life of doing this have I witnessed this, had this happen to me ($3 a piece on Ebay), happen to anyone I personally know, etc.  You can find random ghost stories on the interwebs of this but nothing tangible.  The only people having their keys revoked are either adding/removing hardware to many times (this is a 1 time hardware key, if people don't know that going into it...not anyones fault but their own) which happens to anyone with a legit key (see LTT videos) OEM or not.  Or they try to migrate it to another machine etc. 

 

I would NEVER purchase the key listed above - that's WAY to expensive.

[Tristerin]

20 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

I mean hey if you wanna help criminals that's your choice.  Also, your key is not legit.  You bought a key intended for OEM purposes, not the way you're going about it.  Also, Linus isn't always right and has been debunked several times.  Remember Thunderfoot?
 

Remember how he and Louis met after he decided to bake components?  The point is tech tubers aren't always right.

 

A Crime requires an injured party (if the theft has already occurred, that is the crime... I did not help with this theft).  It is not my responsibility, nor my legal requirement, to know who I am purchasing this key from, because the key is legal to obtain, and have in my possession - and use, as the EULA does not trump my legal abilities granted by the laws of the land. 

 

My mention of Linus was specific - to how swapping hardware causes OEM key revocation and why he doesn't just apply another key and the absolute reason why he is correct - the EULA carries zero weight over my rights.  Nothing Microsoft can do.

 

We just sit in different camps and will not agree on this topic of the morality.  However one of us is correct about the Legality of this, and that is what is important to me.  Morality is just dictated by how the world feels today (enter; Slavery) and can change at a whim of the snowflaked masses.

 

[Tristerin]

Just now, valdyrgramr said:

You stated originally they were committing a crime.  But, depending on location, it can be illegal for you to buy it  In the EU you would clearly win the case.  However, in the US MS doesn't exactly target buyers and are more likely to revoke your license, which I have seen happen before and they are legally obliged to do so.  For example, it's illegal to download copyrighted material in the US.  But, in the EU it's perfectly fine as long as it's "just for personal use as a backup", iirc.  In the US they "rights" argument doesn't exactly hold.

I said it was illegal for them to sell this OEM key.  They purchased it under contract to sell in the Specific Region, or to Machines they build and sell (insert more scenarios).  For ME, it is not illegal to obtain, own, and use an OEM key.  For EU folks, same. 

 

You use "more likely to revoke your license"...which again goes back to ye' ol' Ghost stories.  Did you personally see this?  Or read an article.  Testimony is being a witness, not regurgitating what you have read or believe is correct. 

 

Can they legally do it?  Of course, if they can figure out you aren't on an OEM machine.  Again, Ghost stories, never seen it happen before (and Ive migrated these keys lololol deactivate on one machine, load up on another with the key)

 

Lets be more specific here as well - it is illegal for me to download Copywritten SOFTWARE in the US as this is correct and pertains to the discussion at hand - I can download Windows 10 ISO from the Microsoft Website as soon as I enter the key that was legal for me to obtain, and purchase and use.

 

Its illegal for me to download pirated Windows 10.  Huge difference.

[Tristerin]

Just now, valdyrgramr said:

It's also illegal in the US to break a contract which is what you are doing.  MS just doesn't usually target the buyer of keys outside of revoking license, and yes I have personally seen it happen to people.  I also know people who had their key revoked then had to go back to sites like G2A or Kinguin.  You don't have the rights you assume you do in the US to buy OEM keys like that.  Challenge MS in court if you believe you do or tell them what you're doing.  Let's see how that goes over.

 

What Contract?  Kthnx, EULA isn't a Contract.

 

Microsoft doesn't because its not profitable.  I.E. they know you will just go back out and save hundreds on another OEM key.  If it was profitable to shut me down and try to force me to buy a "legit" key they would attempt this. 

 

Im going to just say this about your testimony...I don't believe it.  I don't believe you have ever had Microsoft contact you or friends, revoke anything of yours or theirs.  You likely tripped Hardware replacement algorithm which no one knows what it takes still to this day.  If I am wrong and you have seen this, and actually SEEN THIS (Microsoft revoke) Im sorry but you should brag about that and keep your proof to show people.  Cause that's like saying you saw a Ghost but have no proof.  Its cool you think you did but its tough for skeptics to believe you.

 

I do have the Rights I know I Have in the US.  They are of utmost importance to me.  Please, challenge what I said was illegal, or legal - Ill gladly prove it to you, but ONLY if you are willing to read and understand - not argue.  Its not about me being right, its about the Law.

 

[Tristerin]

24 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Accept MS has used their EULAs in court, which were found to be contracts in a court of law, and MS won these cases.  So, your argument holds no grounds rather you like it or not.  One case of importance dates back to 1993.  The seller is not the only one bound to this contract.  When you agree to the contract, as you install windows, you have bound yourself to said contract rather you like it or not.  Now, a fair argument is that not every court will take the case.  But, if your area has taken a specific law up then yes MS can take you to court over this "contract".

Sigh

 

Courts uphold EULAs over reselling of software.  You are the licensee not the owner of the software.  You cant resell the license because you are not an authorized distributor, do you see?  These are the Court cases you are referring to, as Im not seeing anything tangible of what you said in 1993 specifically.

 

A EULA, is not a contract btw.  When I purchase Windows 10 from, say Best Buy - the point of sale has occurred correct?  Have I signed anything yet?  Who owns that CD, and that key?  Me.  I go to install that CD and it prompts me to accept the EULA I can even say CANCEL and it will still install.  However, I say - no time to read the EULA, cancel, install...and later decide to buy an ebay key because I lost my key that came with my CD...I input the key into the appropriate place and activate Windows and accept the EULA (does it prompt to accept EULA at this point?  I cant remember but I assume it would, will have to buy a key and remember the steps)...and the worst thing that can happen is a Ghost Story.  (NOTHING Illegal occurred on my end, the User)

 

The legalities you speak of are likely mass scale, or VERY Minor court cases not involving Windows 10 activation.

 

 

 

 

 

[Tristerin]

@valdyrgramr we'd likely have a great discussion face to face over some of my home made Honey Mead you Heathen bastard.  Just read your side pic - My symbol is also a Wolf.    My gym has its own gym dog - a mastiff named Fenrir

[Tristerin]

Just now, valdyrgramr said:

When you install the OS you are agreeing to the EULA otherwise you cannot install it.  You claimed the EULA was not a contract, but it has proven to be a contract by judges.  Now, as I said if your area has taken a specific law it would be easier for MS to take you to court of said contract.  You can argue about it all you want, but you're not remotely correct either.

 

You are wrong, go and install Windows 10 right now and press Cancel at the EULA request.  Cancel the activation.  It does and will always...install.  In certain situations, in certain courts, in specific arguments a EULA can be construed as, and implied as a Contract.  That doesn't make it a Contract.

 

Legality is the download of the Software without purchasing with the intent to use without activation.  If I have a Key purchased from Ebay (not illegal for me to do ever in the USA - the illegal activity is the key seller, not my problem AT ALL) and go to MS website and click the Windows 10 ISO, it will prompt me for a Key to download the ISO.  Once I have the legally (for me) obtained ISO, and I install it, input the key and accept the EULA - Ive still done zero activity that would be considered illegal.  The illegal portion is done at the seller level.  I do not have to know what I am buying is illegal to be sold in that manner, if the item is not illegal to possess. 

[NeuesTestament]

On 1/9/2019 at 3:40 PM, valdyrgramr said:

You said the EULA is not a contract originally, which judges have ruled that it is even at the buyer's level.

Which country are we talking about?

In the EU and EULA is not considered a contract and it is also often not binding. In fact it is 100% legal to buy and use OEM keys in all of the EU. Save yourself the money and don't listen to the spooky stories from people who claim and EULA equals law.

[LogicalDrm]

On 1/9/2019 at 4:22 PM, valdyrgramr said:

When you install the OS you are agreeing to the EULA otherwise you cannot install it.  You claimed the EULA was not a contract, but it has proven to be a contract by judges.  Now, as I said if your area has taken a specific law it would be easier for MS to take you to court of said contract.  You can argue about it all you want, but you're not remotely correct either.

While this technically applies, to end user only thing that can happen is that MS blacklists key or refuse to activate it. Thats their only right, even according to EULA. As buyer can't, within reason, know how key is acquired. MS doesn't have any legal method to force end user to pay any additional fees. They could force out receipt or other information about seller, which would be actual target as they have financially gained by abusing the system.

 

So this whole discussion about EULA is irrelevant in end users perspective. Its about persons morals, whether they are willing to accept fact that they might be buying illegally acquired goods. Considering the fact that MS isn't blacklisting keys at masses, even though they must be aware about issue, makes whole EULA discussion even less relevant. If we were to talk about any distributor buying keys (builders, OEMs), then this would be more relevant as they actually might get sued.

[Tristerin]

3 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

 

If you read the whole conversation I stated that in the US it is illegal, but it isn't illegal in the EU.  So, in the US it isn't about morals.  US judges have ruled that it is a contract here dating all the way back to 1993.  Also, I forgot the name of the law, but there is a law in the US that makes it easier for the EULA creator to enforce said EULA in a court against a buyer.  But, even then that takes a lot of time and money.  So, MS and others just deactivate the key at most.  It's unusual for them to take a buyer to court. 

Edit, Uniform Computer Information Transactions Act is the name of the law.  If a state has this in place, then yes, MS can actually take a buyer to court if they chose to in the US and win.  Two states known for having this is Maryland and Virginia.  I live in Maryland, so I can't exactly buy these OEM keys and hope to beat MS in a court of law.  A state doesn't exactly need to have them in place for MS to take you to court, but it makes it easier for MS or another EULA creator/holder to win a case against you.

You are wrong - you can in fact purchase legally that key.  There is nothing you as a Buyer are doing Illegally, buying, possessing, applying, and using that Key.  In UCITA, or any other law.  Ive read the Wiki links, Ive read lawyers discuss this - nothing can come back to me lol.  This isn't Pot, Cocaine, Heroin, or peyote.  This is a Key to Activate Software.  Nothing illegal to see here. 

[Tristerin]

@valdyrgramr you seem to REALLY think this is pirating or something.  This isn't pirating.

 

This is me purchasing a Key which is legal to have in my possession and use.  I buy Ebay key.  I go DIRECTLY to Microsoft website to download Windows 10 ISO.  It prompts me for the KEY to have access to the ISO.  I put in Key, gives me ISO. 

 

Nothing illegal to see here bro.  Notta, nothing, zilch. 

 

I am thinking it may be worth the $5 bucks to go buy a key and video myself doing all this and have you show me where a law was broken.  My wife would be more upset at me wasting the time so I wont do it.

[Tristerin]

11 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

No, I am not wrong the judges have ruled it is a contract dating back to 1993.  Said law makes an EULA easier for MS to enforce from there on a legal level.  Outside of those states, it depends on the ruling of the court rather you like it or not.  It is a breach of contract.  The US doesn't share the EU's consumer protection laws, but you assume it does because a tech tuber, not a lawyer, told you so.  Ignorance of the law does not hold up in court.

The only one ignorant of the law isn't me here.  I can only signal my knowledge but I work with Law Enforcement on a daily basis.  Im a Combatives Instructor for the Jefferson City HW Patrol, and local PD from STL to Warrenton MO.

 

How is Microsoft Going to take me to Court for buying a Key off Ebay?  And applying said Key on their website?  Then downloading the ISO allowed by inputting a Key?  Then activating the OS with said Key? 

 

They aren't, and cannot.  The reason they CANNOT - is because I have broken no laws.  No digital laws, no copyright laws, no consumer laws, no Corporate protection laws. No EULA, no...nothing.

 

You need to REALLY check your angle on this. 

[Tristerin]

I think you are just stuck on my statement of Contract and EULA aren't the same thing @valdyrgramr - get past that - its okay if Im wrong but a EULA isn't signed and only our Government says the digital key press is the same thing.  They have to prove I pressed AGREE and not someone else.  Good fucking luck with that.  So, in the end - I still haven't violated a single law, a single anything, by purchasing this key off Ebay and applying it to a Windows 10 ISO.  They don't WANT me to, but that doesn't make it illegal for me to do so (NO MATTER WHAT YOU WANT IT TO BE)

[Tristerin]

Just now, valdyrgramr said:

That doesn't make you a lawyer, though.  Because that key is a license and not ownership of the product.  You do not own a copy, but rather are being handed a license to use the SW.  OEM keys are designed for companies like Dell that make laptops and pre-builts.  The person tied to the license is basically the person who bought that HW from Dell.  Selling the key is illegal in the US, but buying the key and tying it to hw you do not own is also a breach of contract.  What the UCITA does is make it easier for MS to enforce this.  If a state did not pass the UCITA law then MS can challenge you in court, but it's left to a final ruling if you did anything wrong or not.  The law you broke is a breach of contract.  You also argued you never agreed to a contract, but another guy tried to argue that in a case over CAD.  Guess what?  He didn't win that case.  This isn't the EU where we have the consumer rights laws that you assume we do.

I DONT HAVE TO BE A LAWYER.  Stop being scared of the Government and know what you can and cant do.

How I acquire a Windows 10 Key is...well...no ones business.  They are only tracked by...gasp...probably Microsoft only.  And if Microsoft finds a key it deems not able to be in my personal use possession (and can prove I shouldn't have it) - they can only blacklist the key.  You really don't get it.  I mean really.  This has already been discussed by more than me here.

 

You go ahead - keep paying retail or whatever it is you pay and feel morally superior to whoever you want to feel morally superior to.  I never will, never have, and will never be taken to court over this.  Nor...any other consumer.  Cause it doesn't happen.  You literally keep mentioning a Case but have given NO case.  You do realize these things are found via XXXX vs. Microsoft or some such nomenclature.  If you really want to scare me into believing you have a leg to stand on, present me with facts not garbled "Ive read this on the internet so its true"

 

I don't need to read something on the internet to understand when a Law is broken, and when I am the one breaking it.  Its actually quite easy to understand if you WANT to.

[Tristerin]

Its not illegal for me to buy the key and apply it.  Its not illegal for me to not read the EULA and press ACCEPT when Im violating the EULA.  Its not illegal for me to continue to use the OS once I know its a illicitly gained key because the key isn't illegal - it was the type of transaction the seller made because of HIS CONTRACT with Microsoft.  Or whoever sold him those keys that got them from Microsoft.

 

The rest - doesn't impact me at all as the End User with this Key.  Get over yourself.

[Tristerin]

4 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Well, being a combat instructor doesn't seem to have informed you of specific laws.  Who said I was afraid of the government?  I'm an Odinist, we lack fear.  Your argument seems to be more structured around parroting tech tubers and people from the EU.  In UCITA based states it is easier for MS to enforce the contract, but much more difficult in states that lack you breaching the contract.  Are you an OEM?  Do you own the original HW that key was meant for? No?  Then buy using the key on a system you don't own you are breaching a contract and breaking the law.  As I've said before, it's more likely for them to just deactivate the key, but that doesn't mean you aren't breaking the law.  My point isn't to scare you, but you're the one taking it way too personally.  I don't know why you're bringing fear and anger into this.   I think you need to understand that just because you break a law doesn't mean you're automatically going to jail or lose a case.  Sure, you might have broken the law, but a good enough lawyer an get you off.  A judge can decide, in a state that hasn't passed the UCITA law, that MS can't force you to pay up or for the amount they're asking.  Again, it's easier for MS to just deactivate the license in the first place than doing anything further towards a buyer.

 

3 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Again making it personal and still spamming I see.  I'd like you to see the case where that guy resold keys, didn't press accept, and still, he lost the case.  GG

 

You do realize in the Windows 10 EULA if you put the system together you are now a System Builder?  So I am in fact an OEM.  I literally can make myself the OEM with...just 1 push of a piece of hardware in or out. 

 

Do you realize an OEM key is THEN TIED to the specific hardware you apply the Key to of that Windows 10 System?  Didn't think so.  Not tied to some Dell Proprietary thing you think Dell bought it for specifically by the way you are typing.  I can buy an OEM key from Amazon bro.  The key that is illegal for the seller to sell me is the one he contracted out from Windows to apply to OEM system builds of their/his own.  Selling them AFTER to me, is illegal for him to do.

 

My above espousing of understanding how laws work, is more closely related to the fact of having to teach Officers HOW to not get in trouble for hurting people.  Everything matters in these situations, and what matters is when and how.  When I bought the key, it wasn't illegal.  How I bought the key, wasn't illegal.  How I applied the key, wasn't illegal.  It was the fucking person selling the key that broke the law.  I mean..just go buy a fucking Amazon OEM key.  Google it.  Do you think its illegal now?

 

I have still not broken a single law, you are wrong.  No other way to dice it.

 

 

 

 

[Tristerin]

@@valdyrgramr here go turn these major corporations in...they are selling OEM keys...single use keys...OMG.

 

https://www.amazon.com/OEM-Windows-Home-64-Bit-1-Pack/dp/B00ZSI7Y3U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1547231201&sr=8-1&keywords=Windows+10+OEM+key

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832588491&Description=Windows 10 OEM key&cm_re=Windows_10_OEM_key-_-32-588-491-_-Product

 

Its not about the OEM key.  Its about how it was obtained under contract to not be sold to a Consumer like it is on Ebay.  Its not illegal for me, you...or anyone else.  Its the Seller who is doing things illegally.

 

Again, get over yourself.

[Tristerin]

Just now, valdyrgramr said:

Yes, and in order to use the OEM key legally, you would have to get it from MS directly.  It doesn't legally transfer from the laptop Dell had built to the system you just built.  You bought a key being sold illegally off eBay and still breached the contract.  These are licenses, not a product you own.

That doesn't have anything to do with this kinda law, though.  That doesn't make you an expert on the laws we are talking about.  That would like me asking dental advice from a dermatologist.

Now, will MS take you to court over it?  Not likely at most they'd probably just deactivate it for reasons I have stated already.  Now, if they took you to court over this then you'd pretty much lose in a UCITA state, but in the states that haven't passed it, that's up to the judge's final ruling.

 

WTF are you talking about. 

 

Go buy an OEM Key on Amazon.  Please stop you are sounding superiorly ignorant.

 

What transfer?  You really didn't read what I Typed lolololol. 

 

No contract Breach on my part, again, read.

 

Im right.  You are wrong.  At this point that's all Im going to continue to respond to you with.  Because anything else you are ignoring.