TridentZ RGB is driving me crazy

[GuybrushCH]

Hello there good people,

 

this is my first discussion here on the LTT's forums, even though I've been following Linus' channel for years. Usually I just read but never comment. But, today I need your collective wisdom, hopefully you can help where everyone else failed.

 

I recently upgraded my RAM from a regular HyperX Fury 2133Mhz (32GB) to 32GB (4x8GB) of G.Skill's TridentZ RGB DDR4-3600 modules. I admit I'm deep in the RGB crazy side. But, since I've switched to the new rams, I've been experiencing instabilities. Usually the PC works totally fine, even with heavy loads (both syntethic and games), but after a while it either freezes or it starts to have major hiccups (mouse jumping around, firefox taking 10-15 seconds to close, etc.).

 

My pc is made of an i7-7800X, Asus X299 Prime (latest bios), 32GB of ram, Asus 2080 Ti GPU, Corsair RM850 PSU, a Samsung 960 Evo for boot drive (the rest, is on my profile if you're curious). So of course the XMP profile wasn't working well, so I punched manually the RAM settings: 3600Mhz, CL16-16-16-36, 1.35V. But I still get instabilities.

I reached out to G.Skill's tech support: they suggested removing the BIOS battery, resetting the bios settings and selecting either 3466Mhz or 3200 Mhz (with the XMP profile enabled). Things are better, but the issue is still here. At this point I don't know if I got some faulty ram modules or if the issue lies somewhere else. And yes, before you as, this very modules are in my motherboard DRAM QVL.

Little help? It would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

[Derrk]

im not sure what the default xmp timings are, but i'd recommend loosening the timings slightly from xmp settings

[GuybrushCH]

Just now, Derrk said:

im not sure what the default xmp timings are, but i'd recommend loosening the timings slightly from xmp settings

I got the timings directly from the box... what would you recomend then? I'm fairly new to the RAM customization game

[Derrk]

4 minutes ago, GuybrushCH said:

I got the timings directly from the box... what would you recomend then? I'm fairly new to the RAM customization game

it can be pretty finicky, so you may have to play around with the timings for a while until you find something suitable. You'll want to loosen them a bit generously, and if it's stable, start tightening timings. I'd start somewhere around 17-17-17-39 and see how stable that runs. If its stable, you can start tightening timings slowly until you find where it's unstable

 

It can be a painful process, just be patient

[GuybrushCH]

I will try it thanks! I guess it'll take a while...

 

right now I tried pulling 2 sticks out of the system, just to check if the issue still there (who knows)

[TahoeDust]

The only thing I can tell you is I have the same g.skill ram and have run it is two x299 systems (gigabyte and evga) using the XMP profile with zero stability issues.  Sorry I cannot be more help.

[GuybrushCH]

Just now, TahoeDust said:

The only thing I can tell you is I have the same g.skill ram and have run it is two x299 systems (gigabyte and evga) using the XMP profile with zero instability issues.

well that's useful information, because at least I can kinda exclude the XMP profile as culprit... kinda.

 

But I've been using the PC for the past 30 min with only 16GB and so far so good... way too early to draw a conclusion though

[GuybrushCH]

I'm starting to think that at least one of the sticks might be faulty... now I'm running the Windows Memory Diagnostic Tool... I wonder if that's a reliable tool to check for ram issues, I've never used it before

 

edit: it crashed so bad even the rest button didn't work.... faulty ram?

Edited December 30, 2018 by GuybrushCH
new info

[Void Stryder]

Could be faulty ram but I do suggest you run the ram at 2400MHz, if you check the support for the i7-7800X, it comes up with "Up to 128 GB of 2400MHz memory"

[GuybrushCH]

That shouldn't be an issue, as long as the motherboard supports the ram, right?

[GuybrushCH]

Hi again good people, after over 8 hours of testing with MemTest86 I found all the memory sticks to be... 100% working. I tested every single stick, once at a time, and found 0 issues with them, at least according to the tests...

 

So assuming RAM is ok and given that I previously had 32GB of HyperX 2133 MHz RAm sticks and never had a single issue... now I'm completely lost

[porina]

 

On 12/29/2018 at 10:26 PM, GuybrushCH said:

after a while it either freezes or it starts to have major hiccups (mouse jumping around, firefox taking 10-15 seconds to close, etc.).

That to me doesn't sound like a ram problem, even if the problems started when you changed the ram. To troubleshoot, try running the ram XMP off without adjusting speeds (should be 2133 or 2400 SPD?). Does that help? How we go depends on the outcome of that test.

[GuybrushCH]

You might be right porina, especially since I tested every single stick with Memtest86 with the XMP profile enabled.

 

Now, I am reinstalling windows. There's no harm in doing it and at least I can eliminate a software issue before continuing the troubleshooting. And I will try using 2133 MHz again. I did use the ram with 2133 for a while and experienced no issues -  but it's pretty hard do causate the issue in the first place. Sometimes it takes hours to get the pc to start acting crazy. For instance, I left 3d mark stress test run for 2 hours and no issues, but after I stopped the stress test and started browsing the web, it started slowing down until I had to shut it off.

 

Other random problems:

sometimes it won't shut down, screen goes black and it stays on with 0 HDD activity.

sometimes at boot it stops with the CPU led ON on the motherboard (all settings at default expect for XMP profile)

[GuybrushCH]

Ok so I reinstalled Windows and most of my usual tools (NZXT CAM, Samsung Magician, AURA Sync, G Hub) and after a while it crashed so bad that even the reset switch wouldn't work, I had to cut the power.

 

Now reverting back to 2133MHz

[Quadriplegic]

Shooting at the dark here, but did you try to adjust voltage when settings speed and timings?

[GuybrushCH]

8 minutes ago, Quadriplegic said:

Shooting at the dark here, but did you try to adjust voltage when settings speed and timings?

yes, I both tried using the XMP profile and adjusting al the settings myself, according to the values on the box

[GuybrushCH]

2 hours ago, porina said:

 

That to me doesn't sound like a ram problem, even if the problems started when you changed the ram. To troubleshoot, try running the ram XMP off without adjusting speeds (should be 2133 or 2400 SPD?). Does that help? How we go depends on the outcome of that test.

at 2133MHz it seems stable, I've been playing some Destiny 2 and doing some web browsing and it's fine

[GuybrushCH]

I'll keep adding details on my findings, maybe someone has an idea.

 

So now I'm running at 3466MHz (17-17-17-39 as suggested by @Derrk). It's mostly stable but sometimes it lags for a while.

 

On the ressource manager I see a spike in GPU utilization by System (currently using an EVGA 970, my 2080 Ti had issues - the very same issues everybody has - so I had to RMA it). I have Spotify open and some youtube video running on Firefox: audio lags, video on youtube disappears. After about 10 secs, system resumes normal behavior and keeps running as expected until the next "episode".

 

I'll lower the ram speed to 3200, but at this point why spending extra for 3600?

 

EDIT: Same behavior at 3200 MHz... runs fine until it lags for 10-ish seconds, then resumes working fine

[porina]

There is an element of risk in high speed ram like that. Even though manufacturers make it sound plug and play, compatibility is never 100% when pushing that far. It may help to tinker with VCCSA/VCCIO but we're getting advanced here. Can you find out what they are currently? hwinfo64 usually reports it, as can bios.

[GuybrushCH]

15 minutes ago, porina said:

There is an element of risk in high speed ram like that. Even though manufacturers make it sound plug and play, compatibility is never 100% when pushing that far. It may help to tinker with VCCSA/VCCIO but we're getting advanced here. Can you find out what they are currently? hwinfo64 usually reports it, as can bios.

With the XMP profile enabled (all the rest on default) HWINFO reports

 

VCCSA: 0,784V
VCCIO: 1.008/1.024V

[GuybrushCH]

I also noticed that the XMP profile sets voltages to 1,3500 V but they seem to get more. Could they simply be undervolted?

 

 

[porina]

I was going to say those voltages sound a bit low, but I just looked on my X299 system (TUF mk2 + 7800X) I also got similar readings. Around 0.75v SA, and 1.0v IO. Ram in my case is Corsair Vengeance RGB 3000 so much lower speed. If you want to try it, you can increase those voltages and see if it helps. It is a typical thing for ram overclocking but I couldn't give suggestions to how much voltage or what is safe. I'll leave it to those who are more intimate with the details, but they relate more to the ram controller on the CPU and how it talks to ram, than the ram itself.

[GuybrushCH]

So I pushed the voltage to 1.3600, to match the measured tension by the motherboard. Now I get 1.3600 both measured and set.

 

PC is now running at 3466MHz and it *seems* stable but it's been like this for about 30 minutes only, basically idle (browser and Spotify). Will test more tomorrow...

 

Meanwhile, happy new year to you all (accordingly to time zones )!!!

[Derrk]

14 hours ago, GuybrushCH said:

I'll keep adding details on my findings, maybe someone has an idea.

 

So now I'm running at 3466MHz (17-17-17-39 as suggested by @Derrk). It's mostly stable but sometimes it lags for a while.

 

On the ressource manager I see a spike in GPU utilization by System (currently using an EVGA 970, my 2080 Ti had issues - the very same issues everybody has - so I had to RMA it). I have Spotify open and some youtube video running on Firefox: audio lags, video on youtube disappears. After about 10 secs, system resumes normal behavior and keeps running as expected until the next "episode".

 

I'll lower the ram speed to 3200, but at this point why spending extra for 3600?

 

EDIT: Same behavior at 3200 MHz... runs fine until it lags for 10-ish seconds, then resumes working fine

sorry to hear you're still having issues. If you loosened the timings to 17-17-17-39, I'd expect it to run fine at 3600, maybe even higher. I'm no master when it comes to ram voltages, but i expect your issue may be lying there. I have a set a CL14 3200mhz ram that i clocked to 3400 just by upping the voltage to 1.4 and loosening some of the sub-timings. I was still able to keep the cas latency at 14

 

I forget if you mentioned whether you're running 4x8 or 2x16, but i believe (may be wrong) quad-channel memory is a bit tougher to find stable clocks. If you have some sort of active cooling over the ram, i would try slowly increasing the voltage. Try to keep it under 1.4, but most manufacturers list 1.5 to be the "max voltage" for xmp memory. But even then, they don't guarantee safety at that high of a voltage.

[GuybrushCH]

7 hours ago, Derrk said:

sorry to hear you're still having issues. If you loosened the timings to 17-17-17-39, I'd expect it to run fine at 3600, maybe even higher. I'm no master when it comes to ram voltages, but i expect your issue may be lying there. I have a set a CL14 3200mhz ram that i clocked to 3400 just by upping the voltage to 1.4 and loosening some of the sub-timings. I was still able to keep the cas latency at 14

 

I forget if you mentioned whether you're running 4x8 or 2x16, but i believe (may be wrong) quad-channel memory is a bit tougher to find stable clocks. If you have some sort of active cooling over the ram, i would try slowly increasing the voltage. Try to keep it under 1.4, but most manufacturers list 1.5 to be the "max voltage" for xmp memory. But even then, they don't guarantee safety at that high of a voltage.

Yeah chaning timings did nothing at all, same instabilities.

 

But now since I pushed voltage to 1.36 from 1.35 did wonders, it's almost stable. I get occasional hiccups for like 5-10 seconds. So I pushed again to 1.3650V, I don't want to ho too near 1,4V at all! I'm still at 3466MHz though.

 

They are running in 4 channel in an open case (Thermaltake P3), so there's nothing blowing air at them, but I think they stay relatively cool (room temp is around 20 C).