Ryzen 3000 Series will be launching at CES plus new radeon card!

[Humbug]

5 hours ago, Jito463 said:

I was thinking the same thing.  I could see them potentially making some of the lower end Ryzen 3000's on the GF process, but it wouldn't make sense for them to release the new series, without at least their top tier chips being on 7nm.

Maybe they don't yet have the yields high enough to be confident enough to switch their mainstream CPU lineup to 7nm. Those are high volume parts and the last thing AMD wants is to be in a position where they cannot ship enough CPUs.

[Humbug]

On 12/24/2018 at 11:40 PM, S w a t s o n said:

If AMD shows me a 16 core AM4 part and navi they win CES

Would love to see Navi, but more realistically it's not ready yet and they will show 7nm Vega.

[S w a t s o n]

54 minutes ago, Humbug said:

Would love to see Navi, but more realistically it's not ready yet and they will show 7nm Vega.

if it's a consumer card then it should ne navi unless AMD changed their mind a 3rd time and restarted vega 7nm consumer plans

[Humbug]

28 minutes ago, S w a t s o n said:

if it's a consumer card then it should ne navi unless AMD changed their mind a 3rd time and restarted vega 7nm consumer plans

That's what I thought and hoped.

 

But then AMD updated their Linux drivers with some Vega IDs

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-New-Vega-10-20-PCI-IDs

 

And filed a trademark for Vega II

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-Vega-2-Trademark

[Trixanity]

7 hours ago, Jito463 said:

I was thinking the same thing.  I could see them potentially making some of the lower end Ryzen 3000's on the GF process, but it wouldn't make sense for them to release the new series, without at least their top tier chips being on 7nm.

 

15 hours ago, BurnedPriest said:

I don't get it, how is the Ryzen 3000 not the 7nm chips?

Because AMD is launching new APUs. Rumor says 12nm Zen+ but I wouldn't be surprised to find it's just a refreshed 14nm Zen with clock speed bumps.

[Taf the Ghost]

6 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

 

Because AMD is launching new APUs. Rumor says 12nm Zen+ but I wouldn't be surprised to find it's just a refreshed 14nm Zen with clock speed bumps.

The confusion in the APU space is a bit of AMD's own creation, but it goes something like this:

 

- 3000 series U parts are 12nm respins of the 14nm Raven Ridge. Called Picasso. We likely won't see these on Desktop, unless they're called the 2300G/2500G.

- A new, 2c/4t design called "RAVEN2" has been showing up in testing. Likely an embedded or semi-custom part, it's assumed to be a 14nm design based on the original Raven Ridge.

- The Zen2 APUs on Desktop should be the 3xxxG series late in the year. along with the 4xxxU parts going into 2020.

 

 

2 hours ago, Humbug said:

Would love to see Navi, but more realistically it's not ready yet and they will show 7nm Vega.

 

1 hour ago, S w a t s o n said:

if it's a consumer card then it should ne navi unless AMD changed their mind a 3rd time and restarted vega 7nm consumer plans

AMD has kicked around the idea of releasing something like another Vega FE part. It has a space in the market, though it really isn't a gaming GPU. But AMD could sell of their B-Stock at 1900USD a pop. Not sure if it's worth it, but it's something AMD could roll out pretty easily.

 

Given AMD's general release time line, we can expect CES to be a lot about Rome (Epyc 2), the Matisse/Ryzen 3rd Gen announcement and very little about Navi. Computex will be the big Ryzen blow out, since that is the release window, along with the official Navi announcement. So, that's in May.

[NunoLava1998]

Gonna need more salt

[Simon771]

On 12/24/2018 at 2:59 PM, Nicnac said:

I am mainly looking forward to the new CPUs, though those should not be confused with the upcoming 7nm chips.

Well that's too bad. I was hoping 7nm chips with 5GHz clock would come sometime soon.

Seems like I will have to wait a bit longer for those hyped 7nm chips.

[mr moose]

On 12/26/2018 at 4:54 AM, Wildosvt said:

I do not need AMD to compete at the high end enthusiast level. But if you can get in the realm of 2080 for much less that is all the majority really need.  

I agre, that is about the level of performance I am happy to pay for.

On 12/26/2018 at 4:54 AM, Wildosvt said:

But speaking of source material. People love to toss salt at a WCCF link. But how many times have they been right in recent times. 

It's easy to be right when they hedge their bets.  We had a thread on this a while back and someone linked to all their articles on one topic, they essential had an article for each possibility claiming it to be an inside source or  similar.

[Hellion]

Yawn, it never gets old seeing "enthusiasts" whine about AMD's GPU offerings to justify nvidia's continously sky rocketing prices.

 

AMD does not need to compete on the cutting edge high end. The majority of market sales are in the low to mid range where price to performance is king. If the rumours are true and AMD can deliver 1080/Vega 64 performance in the $250-300 range,  they will be shitting all over nvidia just like the CPU division is on intel right now in the consumer space.

 

Meanwhile,  those that have a superiority complex and absolutely need the latest and greatest so they can brag about a system that will be outdated in a year,  will continue to pay whatever ridiculous price nvidia demands because they have no self control and can't bare to be without the newest shiny toy.

 

AMD is not the problem. Falling victim to paying $1300 for a card with an over hyped,  gimmicky,  practically non-existent feature set is. If product doesn't move, prices will fall. It's pretty damn simple.

 

 

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, Hellion said:

Yawn, it never gets old seeing "enthusiasts" whine about AMD's GPU offerings to justify nvidia's continously sky rocketing prices.

 

AMD does not need to compete on the cutting edge high end. The majority of market sales are in the low to mid range where price to performance is king. If the rumours are true and AMD can deliver 1080/Vega 64 performance in the $250-300 range,  they will be shitting all over nvidia just like the CPU division is on intel right now in the consumer space.

 

Meanwhile,  those that have a superiority complex and absolutely need the latest and greatest so they can brag about a system that will be outdated in a year,  will continue to pay whatever ridiculous price nvidia demands because they have no self control and can't bare to be without the newest shiny toy.

 

AMD is not the problem. Falling victim to paying $1300 for a card with an over hyped,  gimmicky,  practically non-existent feature set is. If product doesn't move, prices will fall. It's pretty damn simple.

 

 

 

Having the best on the market is not just about sales in that category.  It's also a reflection of a companies ability. AMD having lack luster offerings in the GPU market is not good.   

[Hellion]

28 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

Having the best on the market is not just about sales in that category.  It's also a reflection of a companies ability. AMD having lack luster offerings in the GPU market is not good.   

Not good for who exactly?

 

You can't dispute that the market sector with the highest demand is what matters most and has the highest resources allocated to. As long as AMD continues making incremental improvements that beat invidia for value they will be fine.

 

Those that care about bragging rights will continue to whine but at the end of the day from a corporation standpoint they are the lowest priority.

 

Like I already stated, a $250 1080 is good for the majority.

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Hellion said:

Not good for who exactly?

 

You can't dispute that the market sector with the highest demand is what matters most and has the highest resources allocated to. As long as AMD continues making incremental improvements that beat invidia for value they will be fine.

 

Those that care about bragging rights will continue to whine but at the end of the day from a corporation standpoint they are the lowest priority.

Because people naturally want to buy from the best, even if the product itself is not better. AMD not having a high end competitive product is not good for them because they fall outside of that premium brand mindset of the consumers. People gravitate to Nvidia products the same way people buy low model premium car brands, audio equipment, accessories etc.

 

Brand appeal, it's real.

[Hellion]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Being a tool, it's real.

There, I fixed it for you.

[mr moose]

19 minutes ago, Hellion said:

Not good for who exactly?

 

You can't dispute that the market sector with the highest demand is what matters most and has the highest resources allocated to. As long as AMD continues making incremental improvements that beat invidia for value they will be fine.

 

Those that care about bragging rights will continue to whine but at the end of the day from a corporation standpoint they are the lowest priority.

 

Like I already stated, a $250 1080 is good for the majority.

It's no good for AMD,  you think spending 5 years with the lowest stock price because every economist has you pegged for going bankrupt is a sign of good business practices? It's the result of not being at the top.   Don't fool yourself, people care about who is the best, that's why we have fanboys.  People care about owning the best brands,  If your company can't make the best then what guarantee is there that they can make anything half decent?

[leadeater]

16 minutes ago, Hellion said:

There, I fixed it for you.

When is the last time you brought an off brand pair of shoes, or a car or any product that you do have a preference for. Even when you know there isn't any difference you still buy the brand you prefer.

 

It's not being a tool, it's a very well documented human condition that companies spend millions on because it's so well known.

 

If you want to change it then you have to fight thousands of years of human development and brain development.

 

Hell people can't even pass a double blind test of their favorite food or drink.

[Hellion]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It's no good for AMD,  you think spending 5 years with the lowest stock price because every economist has you pegged for going bankrupt is a sign of good business practices? It's the result of not being at the top.   Don't fool yourself, people care about who is the best, that's why we have fanboys.  People care about owning the best brands,  If your company can't make the best then what guarantee is there that they can make anything half decent?

Because as I have already stated the majority care about what fits their budget not about how big of an e-penis having a RTX titan grants them.

 

There are countless highly profitable business's that focus outside the high end. Take your blinders off.

[Hellion]

9 minutes ago, leadeater said:

When is the last time you brought an off brand pair of shoes, or a car or any product that you do have a preference for. Even when you know there isn't any difference you still buy the brand you prefer.

 

It's not being a tool, it's a very well documented human condition that companies spend millions on because it's so well known.

 

If you want to change it then you have to fight thousands of years of human development and brain development.

 

Hell people can't even pass a double blind test of their favorite food or drink.

Being manipulated by marketing is not a valid excuse.

 

And just because you asked,  the absolute priority in every purchase I make that isn't a spontaneous low cost one is focused on value. Never (outside of understanding this concept) have I bought something excusely for a logo. That is 100% fanboy tool bahaviour with no backing.

 

Some people outside of the one percent would still like to retire comfortably one day rather then barely get by on government supplied social assistance.

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, Hellion said:

And just because you asked,  the absolute priority in every purchase I make that isn't a spontaneous low cost one is focused on value. Never (outside of understanding this concept) have I bought something excusely for a logo. That is 100% fanboy tool bahaviour with no backing.

Well known brands still have value products, that doesn't mean you don't have a brand preference. Just like Nvidia has budget/value products too, AMD might have one that is slightly better for the same money but you are still buying within your budget with both brands.

[Taf the Ghost]

When it comes to GPUs, it's not branding but inertia that keeps Nvidia where it's at. That's why they spend money they way they do, as they know they can lose their position in about 6 months if they don't. 3Dfx had the largest non-Intel market position then went belly up. Nvidia stuck around and took over. ATI got bought by AMD and changed their names. GeForce is the only established GPU brand right now.

 

Nvidia has also done a few other "clever" things along with direct their money to make sure the really popular games all run better on their hardware. ATI/AMD has been the 2nd run dGPU company for nearly 20 years. That really isn't changing unless Nvidia messes up. (Don't take this to mean that Nvidia actually sells more GPU-devices than AMD. Numbers point to AMD likely selling a bit more, but it's not in dGPU.)

[leadeater]

6 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

ATI/AMD has been the 2nd run dGPU company for nearly 20 years.

PC market share back in 2004 for shipping products actually had ATI ahead of Nvidia 60/40 and it stayed roughly like that through to early 2005. X800 series was a huge win back then, Geforce 6 series wasn't really much worse either it's just that the best offering was in the X800 range. Then Geforce 7 series came out and then X1000 series and those two were even more competitive but Nvidia won that one with slightly over 50% shipping products.

 

It doesn't take a lot to flip things but it's so far been on the back of having the best product, so history shows you do need to have the best card around to also get ahead in total dGPU shipments in the PC market. The only counter to this would be the AMD HD5000 series with the 5870 which was an out and out clear unquestioned performance leading card but AMD failed to turn that in to a dGPU shipment lead.

[mr moose]

38 minutes ago, Hellion said:

Because as I have already stated the majority care about what fits their budget not about how big of an e-penis having a RTX titan grants them.

 

There are countless highly profitable business's that focus outside the high end. Take your blinders off.

blinders?  I'm not sure you understand the market dynamics here, especially if you refer to RTX titan as merely "e-penis".   AMD have been trying to make a GPU to compete with the 1080ti and titan for a good 5 years + now and failing, whether you like it or not this tells the consumers that they are just incapable of that feat. Which draws into question their ability anywhere along the product scale.

[mr moose]

22 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

When it comes to GPUs, it's not branding but inertia that keeps Nvidia where it's at. That's why they spend money they way they do, as they know they can lose their position in about 6 months if they don't. 3Dfx had the largest non-Intel market position then went belly up. Nvidia stuck around and took over. ATI got bought by AMD and changed their names. GeForce is the only established GPU brand right now.

 

Nvidia has also done a few other "clever" things along with direct their money to make sure the really popular games all run better on their hardware. ATI/AMD has been the 2nd run dGPU company for nearly 20 years. That really isn't changing unless Nvidia messes up. (Don't take this to mean that Nvidia actually sells more GPU-devices than AMD. Numbers point to AMD likely selling a bit more, but it's not in dGPU.)

 

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

PC market share back in 2004 for shipping products actually had ATI ahead of Nvidia 60/40 and it stayed roughly like that through to early 2005. X800 series was a huge win back then, Geforce 6 series wasn't really much worse either it's just that the best offering was in the X800 range. Then Geforce 7 series came out and then X1000 series and those two were even more competitive but Nvidia won that one with slightly over 50% shipping products.

 

It doesn't take a lot to flip things but it's so far been on the back of having the best product, so history shows you do need to have the best card around to also get ahead in total dGPU shipments in the PC market. The only counter to this would be the AMD HD5000 series with the 5870 which was an out and out clear unquestioned performance leading card but AMD failed to turn that in to a dGPU shipment lead.

I found this to be an interesting article:

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/276425-charting-9-years-of-gpu-market-shifts-between-intel-amd-and-nvidia

 

It isn't just market share that drives revenue, Nvidias market share (comparisons including dGPU), went up by 3% while their revenue for the same period went up 2.35 times.   There is a strong case to be made for being at the top of the food chain in terms of market presence and revenue. 

 

Anyone who believes AMD are willingly sucking up second place in the top end of the market would do well to look at their financial history in light of their product performance.

[Taf the Ghost]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

PC market share back in 2004 for shipping products actually had ATI ahead of Nvidia 60/40 and it stayed roughly like that through to early 2005. X800 series was a huge win back then, Geforce 6 series wasn't really much worse either it's just that the best offering was in the X800 range. Then Geforce 7 series came out and then X1000 series and those two were even more competitive but Nvidia won that one with slightly over 50% shipping products.

 

It doesn't take a lot to flip things but it's so far been on the back of having the best product, so history shows you do need to have the best card around to also get ahead in total dGPU shipments in the PC market. The only counter to this would be the AMD HD5000 series with the 5870 which was an out and out clear unquestioned performance leading card but AMD failed to turn that in to a dGPU shipment lead.

A HD5000 series was also the last AMD/ATI GPU I bought for a long while, haha.

 

Also, while we view the dGPU market as continuous, it's also cyclical. When your best product lands also matters, along with what type of product it is.

[leadeater]

11 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I found this to be an interesting article:

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/276425-charting-9-years-of-gpu-market-shifts-between-intel-amd-and-nvidia

This part is rather telling too:

 

Quote

But the large-scale trend is clear: AMD’s market share starts to slip badly after the first cryptocurrency boom, when its GPU prices — but not Nvidia’s — were driven into the stratosphere. We predicted this could happen and the share data proves it. Despite competing well against Nvidia in terms of MSRP and overall performance, the one-sided price skewing (or skewering) made it impossible for gamers to afford AMD cards. AMD’s market share starts to drop in Q3 2013 and it doesn’t stop until the company bottomed out in Q2 2015, having lost more than half its graphics market in less than two years.

 

Mining boom was the worst thing that could have happened to AMD.