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Water temperature based fan control on motherboards

Olaf6541
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Hi all,

I'm looking for more advanced fan control over my fans. My current fans:

- a D5 pump (pwm/tacho on PWM header and 12+/- on MOLEX header)

- 1 vardar 120s intake fan

- 2 vardar 120s exhaust fans

- 6 ml120 radiator fans (hooked up in pairs of 3 on each rad)

I would like to run the pump on a fixed RPM and have the fan groups (intake/exhaust/rad) independently change RPM based on the water temperature measured by an inline thermometer in the loop.

 

My current motherboard (ga-z170-hd3) only has 1 CPU PWM fan header based on the CPU temp, 2 PWM connectors based on motherboard temp and a 3pin header. The PWM support in the bios is not that great (only some basic preset curves) and the Gigabyte System Information Viewer is not really helping either since the rad fans should spins up when the system is heating up but they only look at the motherboard temp, a component I'm trying to prevent from heating up...

 

Now my questions:

I would like to have some more info on PWM control on current motherboards. Let's say I'm looking at the MSI Z390-A-PRO. Can I run all of my fans from the motherboard and specifically:

- D5 at fixed RPM?

- Intake fan on its own curve based on water temp?

- Exhaust fans on their own curve based on water temp?

- Radiator fans on their own curve based on water temp?

Do I really need a 400,- X299 board for something like a temp sensor input or do boards like the z390 a pro also have this functionality?

I find it very difficult to get more info on this and the product page of msi's z390 a pro shows pictures that are not even the right motherboard so I don't know if the bios PWM functionality they show belong to that board...

Anyone with a water temp based cooling system that can help me?

Thanks!

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i think you could do the fan speed thing with something like speedfan if that plays nice with your motherboard, the other stuff i have no clue about tbh

I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play no games atm & watch anime at 1080p(finally) watch YT and write essays...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

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If you are actually planning to use an inline temperature sensor I would completely de-couple the loop control from bios tbh. You could run the fans and pump from an arduino or something similar and just write a quick program to increase fan speed at a certain threshold and maybe increase the pump speed if a higher threshold is reached. would also cause less ramping up and down of the fans on quick burst workloads like loading up an application as the loop has more "inertia" so to say until the inline sensore would sense a measurable increase.

 

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33 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

i think you could do the fan speed thing with something like speedfan if that plays nice with your motherboard, the other stuff i have no clue about tbh

I've tried speedfan before, and it doesnt seem to be compatible with the motherboard fan controller chip, i dont get any fan signals in the program. It did some research and found an update where specifically this issue was solved but it still doesnt work...

 

31 minutes ago, Nicnac said:

If you are actually planning to use an inline temperature sensor I would completely de-couple the loop control from bios tbh. You could run the fans and pump from an arduino or something similar and just write a quick program to increase fan speed at a certain threshold and maybe increase the pump speed if a higher threshold is reached. would also cause less ramping up and down of the fans on quick burst workloads like loading up an application as the loop has more "inertia" so to say until the inline sensore would sense a measurable increase.

Yeah I'm trying to find out if I should spend some more money on a motherboard to handle it or go for a separate solution that handles the "water temp to PWM signal" part.

Is a Arduino capable of providing PWM signals? It's possible to separate power and pwm (like the D5) for the fans so at least power won't be an issue.

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15 minutes ago, Olaf6541 said:

I've tried speedfan before, and it doesnt seem to be compatible with the motherboard fan controller chip, i dont get any fan signals in the program. It did some research and found an update where specifically this issue was solved but it still doesnt work...

then you are going to need some sort of external controller probably. maybe an arduino could do it? might need some addon board or something idk too much about them but the controll part should be doable with one

I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play no games atm & watch anime at 1080p(finally) watch YT and write essays...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

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Just now, Olaf6541 said:

I've tried speedfan before, and it doesnt seem to be compatible with the motherboard fan controller chip, i dont get any fan signals in the program. It did some research and found an update where specifically this issue was solved but it still doesnt work...

 

Yeah I'm trying to find out if I should spend some more money on a motherboard to handle it or go for a separate solution that handles the "water temp to PWM signal" part.

Is a Arduino capable of providing PWM signals? It's possible to separate power and pwm (like the D5) for the fans so at least power won't be an issue.

not sure about the pwm signal as I don't have any experience with that but if it were you could always go for a raspi zero instead. you could even use non pwm fans and control them only by the voltage I gues...

 

My Folding Stats

 

X  Vigilo Confido  X

 

 

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3 hours ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

then you are going to need some sort of external controller probably. maybe an arduino could do it? might need some addon board or something idk too much about them but the controll part should be doable with one

 

3 hours ago, Nicnac said:

not sure about the pwm signal as I don't have any experience with that but if it were you could always go for a raspi zero instead. you could even use non pwm fans and control them only by the voltage I gues...

 

I did some research on the arduino and raspberry pi and the problem seems to be the high pwm frequency of 25kHz. You could somehow link the internal clock cycle to the pwm duty cycle but it doesn't work that great...

I guess I would need something like this? https://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info.php?language=en&products_id=3092

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45 minutes ago, Olaf6541 said:

 

 

I did some research on the arduino and raspberry pi and the problem seems to be the high pwm frequency of 25kHz. You could somehow link the internal clock cycle to the pwm duty cycle but it doesn't work that great...

I guess I would need something like this? https://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info.php?language=en&products_id=3092

Oh damn. didn't think it would be that complicated honestly... maybe an advanced motor controller like the odrive can do it? It's getting kinda expensive by now tho :/ 

 

My Folding Stats

 

X  Vigilo Confido  X

 

 

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1 hour ago, Olaf6541 said:

 

 

I did some research on the arduino and raspberry pi and the problem seems to be the high pwm frequency of 25kHz. You could somehow link the internal clock cycle to the pwm duty cycle but it doesn't work that great...

I guess I would need something like this? https://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info.php?language=en&products_id=3092

Maybe there are some hats or expansion boards to do the PWM? 

I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play no games atm & watch anime at 1080p(finally) watch YT and write essays...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

Maybe there are some hats or expansion boards to do the PWM? 

Raspberry pi has PWM support but only at 500Hz, and something like this 1600Hz.

Thats why I said 25kHz is the problem...

 

Maybe if I settle for two states (on or off) I can hook up all fans to the PWM header of the motherboard and route the 12V wires through a 'device' that activates the power to the fans based on water temperature.

 

That way the fans are either off, or running at a specified RPM (controlled through PWM). I would be fine with this configuration as long as I have multiple outputs (at different temperature thresholds). I can even use something like a relais if the 'device' is not able to pass through all of the current needed for the fans.

 

I think an arduino could do this?

Edited by Olaf6541
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