Sales of the iPhone 7 and 8 halted in Apple Stores located in Germany following Qualcomm win

[D13H4RD]

So, looks like the courts might be going in Qualcomm's favor.

 

Sales of the iPhone 7 and 8 in Germany have recently been halted following a court ruling in Qualcomm's favor, in that sales of iPhones that had chips supplied from Qorvo Inc cannot be sold at least at Apple-run retail stores. However, this ruling does not appear to extend to resellers or carriers.

Quote

Qualcomm’s win in Germany comes weeks after it secured a court order to ban sales of some iPhone models in China. Apple, which is contesting both rulings, has continued to offer its iPhones in China but made changes to its iOS operating system in the wake of the Chinese order.

 

The German victory may affect only a few million iPhones out of the hundreds of millions that Apple sells each year. Still, it is a small but clear win in a complex legal battle that will spin into overdrive in the coming months as antitrust regulators and Apple both take Qualcomm to court in the United States.

 

Apple alleges that Qualcomm engaged in illegal behavior to preserve a monopoly on modem chips, which help mobile devices connect to wireless data networks. Qualcomm has in turn accused Apple of using the chip supplier’s vast stable of technology innovations without proper compensation.

Both companies have released statements regarding the court ruling

 

Qualcomm

Spoiler

Two respected courts in two different jurisdictions just in the past two weeks have now confirmed the value of Qualcomm’s patents and declared Apple an infringer, ordering a ban on iPhones in the important markets of Germany and China.

Apple

Spoiler

We are of course disappointed by this verdict and we plan to appeal. All iPhone models remain available to customers through carriers and resellers in 4,300 locations across Germany. During the appeal process, iPhone 7 and iPhone 8 models will not be available at Apple’s 15 retail stores in Germany. iPhone XS, iPhone XS Max and iPhone XR will remain available in all our stores.

 

D13H4RD's opinion

Quote

This pissing contest needs to be settled eventually. If this keeps going on, the consumer will ultimately suffer from consequences such as reduced choices when this continues on and on. I totally understand the necessity to protect intellectual property, but when this turns into a full-blown pissing contest, I can't help but feel annoyed and disgusted because consumers tend to get hung out to dry in those cases. Protecting your IP is fine, but no pissing contests...

Source: Reuters

 

 

[DrMacintosh]

I question Qualcomm’s motives. They seem to becoming patent trolls rather than a company that makes invoative and industry leading products. 

 

Are they so desperate to block elements of Apple out of the market that they want to fight endless court battles? 

 

I mean I get that Apple has sued for hardware design infringements.....but sueing because you believe you own the idea of swiping up on an app to quit it? Yeah no, Qualcomm, you’re full of it and your execs know it :smallhandsemoji:

 

Maybe if they were more more focused on getting to 64Bit rather than being patent trolls they wouldn’t be permanently a year or two behind Apple in silicon. 

[GoldenLag]

these proxy patent wars are just really hurting the industry. it has reached the point where you cant make something without infringing on patents and every major corperation is just pointing nukes at eachother hopeing the other one doesnt sue

[suicidalfranco]

19 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

I mean I get that Apple has sued for hardware design infringements.....but sueing because you believe you own the idea of swiping up on an app to quit it?

From the doctor defending the company that sued for a bouncing effect when reaching the end of a list.

[D13H4RD]

2 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

these proxy patent wars are just really hurting the industry.

I just think litigation as a whole is reaching levels of absurdity.

 

IP protection is important and is why patents and such exist, but this is just really absurd

[GoldenLag]

Just now, D13H4RD said:

I just think litigation as a whole is reaching levels of absurdity.

 

IP protection is important and is why patents and such exist, but this is just really absurd

i was just making memes comparing it to the Cold War. though it is starting to get dumb.

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, suicidalfranco said:

From the doctor defending the company that sued for a bouncing effect when reaching the end of a list.

I'd like you to quote me where I defended Apple for doing that...... but ok  

[asus killer]

respect the courts. 

[Blademaster91]

2 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

I question Qualcomm’s motives. They seem to becoming patent trolls rather than a company that makes invoative and industry leading products. 

 

Are they so desperate to block elements of Apple out of the market that they want to fight endless court battles?

As opposed to what Apple is doing? Rather than settling with Qualcomm and paying them the fair fees for IP use, Apple would rather steal a design and make their own chips.

[D13H4RD]

11 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

As opposed to what Apple is doing? Rather than settling with Qualcomm and paying them the fair fees for IP use, Apple would rather steal a design and make their own chips.

Eh, I'd say both companies are shite. It's basically 2 companies known for shady business dealings pissing on each other in a gamble of who is shittier.

[Trixanity]

2 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

I question Qualcomm’s motives. They seem to becoming patent trolls rather than a company that makes invoative and industry leading products. 

 

Are they so desperate to block elements of Apple out of the market that they want to fight endless court battles? 

 

I mean I get that Apple has sued for hardware design infringements.....but sueing because you believe you own the idea of swiping up on an app to quit it? Yeah no, Qualcomm, you’re full of it and your execs know it :smallhandsemoji:

 

Maybe if they were more more focused on getting to 64Bit rather than being patent trolls they wouldn’t be permanently a year or two behind Apple in silicon. 

It isn't software design patents that got Apple banned but hardware cellular patents. So I'm not entirely sure where you got that angle from.

 

Qualcomm is behind in CPU core design because they've ceased any significant R&D in that area. 

 

The 64 bit angle is also odd. What does it have to do with anything? Correct that when Apple went 64 bit, Qualcomm still had 32 bit on the roadmap but if I recall correctly 64 bit, while a large shift, was kinda gimmicky at the time. I don't recall the bus width being a limiting factor at the time.

 

Qualcomm's focus is on platforms rather than CPU cores. Arguably Qualcomm still have the best platform despite relying on ARM CPU roadmaps.

 

Qualcomm still are monopolistic cunts though and this is basically another chapter in that story. However they're just joining Apple in the paradigm of "control is everything" so if you wanna criticize Qualcomm, you should also criticize Apple.

[suicidalfranco]

2 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

I'd like you to quote me where I defended Apple for doing that...... but ok  

I'll give you that since i haven't found anything on the forum, my bad

[Nicnac]

No way they are so quick to "comply" with that decision. I bet they are quite happy as it allows them to sell more high-end phones before christmas. Since the X was already a threat to the new Xs models and since the 7 and 8 are still pretty decent phones people will now have to go for an xr and above. might be a welcome excuse to weed out their lower end product stack...

[mynameisjuan]

5 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

I mean I get that Apple has sued for hardware design infringements.....but sueing because you believe you own the idea of swiping up on an app to quit it? Yeah no, Qualcomm, you’re full of it and your execs know it :smallhandsemoji:

And suing Samsung because their icons are different designs and are multicolored  is justified?

[TVwazhere]

11 hours ago, D13H4RD said:

All iPhone models remain available to customers through carriers and resellers in 4,300 locations across Germany.

 

will not be available at Apple’s 15 retail stores 

Good Job Qualcom, really hitting them where it hurts. How will people ever find their 2+ year old flagship phone now? (in cased you missed it, /s)

 

I understand doing it base on standing your ground, but this really isnt going to stop Apple, nor does anyone care at this point. It's like when siblings fight and the older brother gets a slap on the wrist because the younger brother fell over and cut their knee. 

[Fnige]

10 hours ago, D13H4RD said:

Eh, I'd say both companies are shite. It's basically 2 companies known for shady business dealings pissing on each other in a gamble of who is shittier.

Soo. Bethesda and EA but with patents too

[mr moose]

The real problem is not the patent system as such (it could be better in some regards but I don't know how to fix that), but that with technology being so advanced and complex that it is impossible to build something new with out requiring a license on X number of patents.  Try building a phone that doesn't violate a patent.   It is getting to the stage where there are so many overlaps and iterations that patent lawsuits are now a viable method to suppress the competition (even if they fail).

 

It's really easy to sit in the armchair and complain company X is just trolling and should be punished, but without knowing the intricacies I don't like saying that a company should be prevented from selling their products, it was shit when apple did it and it's shit now.  But if these companies have actually violated a genuine technology patent then maybe they do need to suffer some sales losses.

[YoloSwag]

Remember the annoying blatant patent trolling a lot of companies did that sprang up the past decade? It wasn't funny back then but now it just got interesting as the biggest patent troll gets a taste of its own medicine.

 

TL:DR - Apple lost a court ruling to Qualcomm in both Germany and China and is now facing a foreseeably large fine from both respective countries... Maybe.

 

From Reuters -

Quote

Qualcomm’s win in Germany comes weeks after it secured a court order to ban sales of some iPhone models in China.

Apple, which is contesting both rulings, has continued to offer its iPhones in China but made changes to its iOS operating system in the wake of the Chinese order.

Fudzilla explains -

Quote

The last week’s ruling in District court Munich Germany is about hardware patent named tracking envelope and it affects iPhone 7, 8 and 8 Plus.

This is a tough defeat for Apple as while it can issue an OS update and remove the features in software and fix the China ruling, it cannot stop using Qualcomm hardware patents in German phones.

 

It looks like Apple is walking all over the decision of the Fuzhou Intermediate People’s Court in China preliminary injunctions to immediately cease infringing two software patents affecting iPhone 6S, iPhone 6S Plus, iPhone 7, iPhone 7 Plus, iPhone 8, iPhone 8 Plus and iPhone X. Apple didn’t stop sales and distribution and it should have and it is even selling these phones in its China webstore and retail stores.

 

A week before the Christmas massive lazy period, a German court in Munich granted Qualcomm’s request for a permanent injunction, ordering Apple to cease the sale, offer for sale and importation for sale in Germany of infringing iPhones.This court order was very clear as the court found that Apple is infringing Qualcomm’s intellectual property for power savings in smartphones and granted Qualcomm’s request for a permanent injunction, ordering Apple to cease the sale, offer for sale and importation for sale in Germany of infringing iPhones.

 

What patents are involved?

 

From Reuters -

Quote

In Germany, the judge ruled that phones with a chip from Apple supplier Qorvo violate one of Qualcomm’s patents around so-called envelope tracking, a feature that helps mobile phones save battery power while sending and receiving wireless signals.

From China Daily -

Quote

According to Qualcomm, two patents involved in the legal dispute enable consumers to adjust the size and appearance of photos, and to manage applications using a touch screen on their devices.

Sauce:

Fudzilla

Reuters

China Daily

 

Thoughts -

I remember Qualcomm tried to do this in the US just last year (referenced in this article) but nothing came of it. Apple is one of the US's largest tax payers it's never gonna lose in their own turf. The only reason it would fall is by sales.

 

I guess their legal teams are working double time this holiday season lol.

[AngryBeaver]

On 12/21/2018 at 2:01 AM, DrMacintosh said:

I'd like you to quote me where I defended Apple for doing that...... but ok 

Let me see if I can dig one up

On 12/21/2018 at 1:39 AM, DrMacintosh said:

Finally Apple is suing for the theft of the bouncing effect when reaching the end of a list. It is about time these people are held accountable for their actions. #apple4life #noapplenolove

There we go, found it!

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, AngryBeaver said:

Let me see if I can dig one up

There we go, found it!

That must have taken a while, nice edit attempt tho  

[Commodus]

On 12/21/2018 at 4:45 AM, Blademaster91 said:

As opposed to what Apple is doing? Rather than settling with Qualcomm and paying them the fair fees for IP use, Apple would rather steal a design and make their own chips.

Interesting that you're accepting Qualcomm's PR spin without questioning it.  You do know Qualcomm has been penalized for antitrust abuse more than once, right?  The company has regularly been dishonest.

[Dabombinable]

Looking back at this, don't you just love how problems can be patented? Not just the solutions?

[W-L]

-Related topics merged- 

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

Interesting that you're accepting Qualcomm's PR spin without questioning it.  You do know Qualcomm has been penalized for antitrust abuse more than once, right?  The company has regularly been dishonest.

Yeah of course i'd believe Qualcomm's and the findings of the German courts over Apple's PR spin, when Apple have been doing a lot worse on the topic of being dishonest and abusing the patent system. And blocking the sales of a few older phones isn't hurting anyone when most consumers in the market for an iPhone would be buying an XR or XS.

[D13H4RD]

4 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Yeah of course i'd believe Qualcomm's and the findings of the German courts over Apple's PR spin, when Apple have been doing a lot worse on the topic of being dishonest and abusing the patent system. And blocking the sales of a few older phones isn't hurting anyone when most consumers in the market for an iPhone would be buying an XR or XS.

I believe neither. 

 

Both have been involved in some shady business dealings.