Why is NVIDIA doing so horribly?

[POLOPIS]

First off, the RTX 2080 Ti can barely do Ray-Tracing and it appears that the RTX 2060 will only have 30 tensor cores, it's no faster than a GTX 1070 for $400. Any opinions.

[DVA]

Because they know people will still buy their products. AMD is taking full advantage of NVIDIA's current horrible performance. 

[Electronics Wizardy]

there still making a ton of money so they can't be doing that badly... Also they seem to be selling a good amount of those cards.

[POLOPIS]

1 minute ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

there still making a ton of money so they can't be doing that badly... Also they seem to be selling a good amount of those cards.

I mean bad for the customer. It's mind-boggling that people will still purchase these Graphics Cards in my opinion.

[Electronics Wizardy]

Just now, Prophet_38[17] said:

I mean bad for the customer.

People keep willingly buying there new cards so how is it bad for them?

[POLOPIS]

Just now, Electronics Wizardy said:

People keep willingly buying there new cards so how is it bad for them?

Amazing. I think that people will just accept that things are the way they are and will continue to purchase the Graphics Card.

[Dissitesuxba11s]

People like the latest and greatest. Even without the Raytracing features, they still perform really well. It also doesn't help that 10-series cards are slowly being fazed out.

[Radium_Angel]

1 minute ago, Prophet_38[17] said:

Amazing. I think that people will just accept that things are the way they are and will continue to purchase the Graphics Card.

You have several factors at play here

 

(1) Xmas.

(2) Brand-name recognition. ATI has struggled in the past few years and nVidia cards were simply faster, so people switched

(3) Terrible drivers, ATI-wise. Every computer geek recalls the terrible drivers ATI had for several years, and it reminds them ATI wasn't competitive for a while.

(4) Availability, which ties in with (1), visit a BB and all I see are nVidia cards, so people buy that.

 

[Streetguru]

13 minutes ago, Prophet_38[17] said:

First off, the RTX 2080 Ti can barely do Ray-Tracing and it appears that the RTX 2060 will only have 30 tensor cores, it's no faster than a GTX 1070 for $400. Any opinions.

Because AMD isn't competing in the high end, maybe they'll make a comeback whenever they get multi-die GPUs working.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Prophet_38[17] said:

Amazing. I think that people will just accept that things are the way they are and will continue to purchase the Graphics Card. 

You haven't seen adored's videos?

 

[mopman94]

12 minutes ago, Prophet_38[17] said:

I mean bad for the customer. It's mind-boggling that people will still purchase these Graphics Cards in my opinion.

I mean I bought a 2070 because it was the same price as a 1080 but performs a lot better so I don't really see what the fuss is about.

 

I think people act like it costs them nothing to do all of the R&D to produce these cards.

[Slayer3032]

Just now, Prophet_38[17] said:

Amazing. I think that people will just accept that things are the way they are and will continue to purchase the Graphics Card.

It's pretty easy to accept things when you don't have a choice, if you need more performance than a $500 card from 2016 in 2019 you have two choices. Buy Nvidia or go without.

 

I recommend nearly everyone to buy used at this time when possible. GTX 970's are worth around $100~, GTX 1070's are worth $200~ and 1080's around $300~. There's also a lot of low end used AMD cards around there but the used hardware market can be absolutely all over the place in prices. You can thank Nvidia for dragging back up the prices even more so with RTX since they knew they were going to take a big hit and AMD has nothing other than Polaris to continue reselling.

[Streetguru]

1 minute ago, mopman94 said:

I mean I bought a 2070 because it was the same price as a 1080 but performs a lot better so I don't really see what the fuss is about. 

 

I think people act like it costs them nothing to do all of the R&D to produce these cards.

The 2070 is only like 5-10% better on average isn't it?

I don't think it cost them anymore R&D than last time, except they doubled the MSRP at the high end.

[mopman94]

1 minute ago, Streetguru said:

The 2070 is only like 5-10% better on average isn't it?

I don't think it cost them anymore R&D than last time, except they doubled the MSRP at the high end.

Not a small amount considering it was exactly the same cost for me. 

[Streetguru]

1 minute ago, mopman94 said:

Not a small amount considering it was exactly the same cost for me. 

It should be a larger jump, or it should replace the cards at their selling price at the time. Nvidia is just milking consumers for all they can while they have no competition, it's the same thing Intel did for at least 6 years since broadwell.

[mopman94]

Just now, Streetguru said:

It should be a larger jump, or it should replace the cards at their selling price at the time. Nvidia is just milking consumers for all they can while they have no competition, it's the same thing Intel did for at least 6 years since broadwell.

The jumps are going to get smaller and smaller as time goes on, that's just a simple fact. On the other side it means the cards will have a longer life span so when you scale it the extra cost spreads out.

[Streetguru]

15 minutes ago, mopman94 said:

On the other side it means the cards will have a longer life span so when you scale it the extra cost spreads out.

That's definitely not how it was in the past, nor is that great for consumers, it's just like with the 1060 3GB, they could have easily made it a 5GB model instead as they did later so that it wasn't as VRAM limited.

Or with the 1070ti which has basically the same performance as the 1080 without GDDR5X

What do you mean by "longer lifespan"? We should be getting larger jumps in performance, they aren't really at the limit of moore's law as it kind of is with CPUs.

They didn't have to include RT cores on the consumer GPUs when it won't be used much and won't run well on the first gen cards.

Hell the 2080ti isn't even the full GPU die and they're selling it for $1200-$1300 with only a 20-30% jump over the 1080ti at $700

[porina]

It's still early days but I'm positive on Turing compared to Pascal. I got a 2070 for testing. Never owned a 1080 though for a more direct comparison but I do have 1070 and 1080Ti on either side of it. The 2070 in the compute use cases I've tried it on is comparable to the 1080Ti, and runs at much lower power closer to the 1070. Given it is similar cost to 1080 to me Pascal is dead. And this is just for the "old" features, the code doesn't make any use of the new features. The 2070 is still a bit high end for my compute cases, the 2060 I hope will fill that gap a lot better.

[Mick Naughty]

Well if you need ray tracing for some reason and youre a broke pleb, it sounds like the 2060 is perfect. Nvidia is doing what needs to be done. No one else is, that's for sure.

[jasonvp]

There's a lot of ignorance throughout this thread; it's something I tend to find in a lot of threads that start off complaining about the RTX cards.  Ignorance, by the way, is defined as simply: not knowing.  I'm not using it in a pejorative manner.  Stupidity, on the other hand, is actively protecting that ignorance by not trying to learn.  So let's try not to be stupid.  Being ignorant is OK.  We can fix that.

 

These cards are fucking phenomenal.  They simply are.  Whether you can afford them or not is another story.  I can't help you out there.  But the jump in performance from Pascal is there.  Easily.

 

Unless you hit the silicon lottery with a pair of Pascal cards, you're not going to drive games like Rainbow Six Siege or Battlefield V in 4K at high refresh rates.  You can do that with a pair of 2080Ti cards.  Pushing 4K/140 at very high details in Siege is basically easy-mode for the 2080Ti cards.  Pushing 4K/140 is quite doable with the same pair of cards in BFV; nearly impossible with a pair of Pascal cards.  And the load on the GPUs while doing that is not 100% either!  Unlike with a pair of Pascals trying to push the same resolution and refresh.

 

And I haven't even touched upon ray tracing yet.  Real time ray tracing is FUCKING HARD TO DO!  Unbelievably so.  The fact that we have consumer level GPUs that can do it at all is amazing.  You may not care, and that's perfectly OK.  I'm not using it either right now because I'd rather play 4K/140.  But to ignore the technology or downplay it as "useless" is simply ignorant.

[Neo-revo]

5 hours ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

there still making a ton of money so they can't be doing that badly... Also they seem to be selling a good amount of those cards.

by those who held out on the upgrades, and only recently built a system that can actually use a decent card... maybe? 

or out of 1080P?

5 hours ago, Prophet_38[17] said:

I mean bad for the customer. It's mind-boggling that people will still purchase these Graphics Cards in my opinion.

what ever helps you sleep at night.

5 hours ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

People keep willingly buying there new cards so how is it bad for them?

by the people who sell their used cards to the next guy and put the money towards the new card... effectively making it cheaper?

5 hours ago, Prophet_38[17] said:

Amazing. I think that people will just accept that things are the way they are and will continue to purchase the Graphics Card.

https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html

 

Just because you put a better card in your system, doesn't mean you can use it..  if you dont have a system that can max out a 1080ti you would be wasting an RTX..

 

btw look at those real-time-ish USD prices down the side... ? 

[xg32]

6 hours ago, Prophet_38[17] said:

First off, the RTX 2080 Ti can barely do Ray-Tracing and it appears that the RTX 2060 will only have 30 tensor cores, it's no faster than a GTX 1070 for $400. Any opinions.

it's first gen tech, remember when antialiasing first came out? they got cocky and thought they mess around, no1 should be buying the RTX for raytracing, the 2080 is slightly faster than a 1080 ti and is selling for 675usd, new, that price range is solved. If you think the 2080 ti is a ripoff, don't buy it, the 1070 ti is also a great deal, until it runs out.

[KaitouX]

The people that are defending the prices of RTX cards would have defended Pascal cards if they had done these price increases?

If 1080TI was $1200, 1080 was $800 and 1070 was $600 at launch would you people have defended it?

 

RT is great but useless at the moment, only 1 game supports it and it is only ray traced reflections, not even fully ray traced(which i believe would be impossible considering the performance level of RTX cards) and with as far as i know, no idea when the next game with RT is coming.

 

Nvidia should've released RT in their Quadro/Titan GPUs and announce the release of RT mainstream gaming cards for the next year or something like that, so at least there would be software that supports it.

[Mick Naughty]

I didn’t buy my 10 series cards to use dx12. That’s whats all the craze was then. My 9 series cards were sold as I didn’t use them. My 10 series cards were all free as they paid for them selves and I didn’t play with them  Been playing just fine with my old ass $1,000 cards. So getting something new for that price wouldn’t have been a concern when I have already done it 5 times. 

 

Doesnt matter what peope like, get it or don’t. No reason to cry about it. Get a 1030 play some solitaire.

[xg32]

43 minutes ago, KaitouX said:

.

As consumers we'd like for it to be lower, but companies are catching on to gamers. phone users lack of impulse control. In economics we used to theorize that companies can price things at an economic price point, but for high-end products they always had the choice to charge a massive premium where supply=demand, they didn't even go all the way with the 2080 ti (and sony shoulda sked for 1000usd on the ps3). Also electronics prices tend to lag inflation, the cryptoboom just woke companies like intel and nvidia up, The price raise was to be expected after seeing the miners throw their money around, As long as the 2080 ti sells out, they can charge whatever they want, a majority will whine anyway. If the Titan offered 4k/120 performance for 5k, it will sell out.

 

Nobody's really complaining about the 2080 at 675 or 2080 ti at 1200, that's not what's damaging their brand, pushing out RTX before it was ready is. Although anyone who bought the cards expecting RTX didn't do their research.

 

Don't get me wrong, i'm not an nvidia fan, they had a monopoly and they STILL messed it up, for that their reputation took a hit (it just works) and got their stock price cut by 60% fuled by a chip down cycle that will bottom in 2019.

[Neo-revo]

10 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

I am not pro any company/not a loyalist, but I know the price is bs.

Just like the Price of gas.   Go to sleep (some thing happens in the world) : Wake up "oh expect gas to be more expensive just so the company can suck as much money out of everyone that way its CEO's and whatnot can get their bonuses at the end of the fiscal market year"  Prices immediately reflect negative consequences. 

"producers are ramping up production of gas to help with the shortage since the natural gas pipeline rupture"   prices come down.... weeks later

"producers are stopping production cause they have to sell it cheaper and that means they cant gouge you hard enough to keep the profit train rolling"  Prices trend up immediately.