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2 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

a functioning modern economy. It's working fine in this situation.

 

And like that you've lost me.

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7 hours ago, handymanshandle said:

Oh by the way, why not sue Valve for incorporating a community-made taunt based off of the Carlton in TF2?

 

Because tf2 is a GOOD game, unlike fortnite..

 

 

and why can’t epic just make their own things? Rich company like them should not be getting in so much trouble because they are not creative. This is what, the 3rd time somebody has complained that their dance was stolen by epic? Wow, they need to start getting permission

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, handymanshandle said:

Oh by the way, why not sue Valve for incorporating a community-made taunt based off of the Carlton in TF2?

10 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

it is in Team Fortress 2 by Valve and is acknowledged in the game to be from Alfonso. 

 

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I think one of the races in World of Warcraft does the same dance.

 

But if anything, i would assume NBC would hold the copyright claim, or whichever production company holds the fresh prince rights.

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36 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

 

So in terms of other games, Alfonso and Meek are both sueing 2K for NBA with the same dance.

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2 hours ago, S w a t s o n said:

World of Warcraft also took dances from real people, one dance for each gender of each race. I'd like to see them sue Blizzard, glhf

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I think he'll lose just based on unopposed,  Its in hundreds of games without him saying a word but all of a sudden he wants that fortnite money and attention.

 

 

That said, I don't know how you copyright a limb based function (aka, moving around which...mostly. Everyone can do.) its not an invention or creation imo (and if were talking inventing, courtney cox technically made the dance)

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1 hour ago, Gullerback said:

I think he'll lose just based on unopposed,  Its in hundreds of games without him saying a word but all of a sudden he wants that fortnite money and attention.

 

 

That said, I don't know how you copyright a limb based function (aka, moving around which...mostly. Everyone can do.) its not an invention or creation imo (and if were talking inventing, courtney cox technically made the dance)

 

As was discussed earlier, you can't do it for individual movements, but you can do it for whole routines, which is what this is.  Anyone can write any combination of words, too, but that doesn't mean you can swipe someone's slogan and use it.

 

My guess is that Epic will settle.  It's easier to do that than fight a case that both makes the company look bad and risks carrying a stiff penalty.

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Epic Games have been using a lot of 'inspired' dances.

I mean, I don't like the idea that Epic is this massive company and they are just ripping dance moves while not explicitly crediting them to anyone. Anyway, I don't play this game so I'm not losing sleep over it.

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Apparently there's some issues with this whole thing, according to some research Alfonso previously said publicly that he "stole" the move from some other people, same with the backpack kid.

 

 

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I'm suing Fortnite for being a shitty game.

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2 hours ago, matrix07012 said:

I'm suing Fortnite for being a shitty game.

I'm happy to see this lawsuit just because I hate fortnite, as well as all Battle Royale's.

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13 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

want to settle the matter fairly quickly.

Yes that is good, I hope he gets well compensated for his troubles.

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Just leaving this here.

 

It's a messy situation. At the same time it's questionable is the Carlton dance copyrighted and for who it is copyrighted, but at the same time Epic is piece of poop for not crediting where they got the dance moves from and for that I'm hoping they would loose and pay a hefty sums of that Fortnite money just to teach them for not stealing or at least credit who deserves the credits.

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44 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

You cant copyright human movement. That rapper tried to sue for it as well.

You can, but as Nathan Barnatt explained, it has to be a performance that basically tells a story.  That could make it tricky.  The dance in Fortnite is short, but there's at least one instance in Fresh Prince of Ribiero doing an extended routine that very clearly tells a story (even if it's just "Carlton is preppy as hell").  Ribiero could win if a court finds that Epic borrowed too liberally from that choreography, and I think that claim might stick.

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14 minutes ago, Commodus said:

You can, but as Nathan Barnatt explained, it has to be a performance that basically tells a story.  That could make it tricky.  The dance in Fortnite is short, but there's at least one instance in Fresh Prince of Ribiero doing an extended routine that very clearly tells a story (even if it's just "Carlton is preppy as hell").  Ribiero could win if a court finds that Epic borrowed too liberally from that choreography, and I think that claim might stick.

But the tell the story part is in reference to choreography's similar to plays or broadway. These are scripted choreography that make the entertainment as a whole. The carlton dance was just a comedic effect inside a sitcom. Two different beast. 

 

Also there were extremely similar dance moves by singers in the swing days in the 40s and 50s.  So if epic is to be sued, so should Alfonso. 

 

Again you cant copyright human movement, no fucking proof that you are the original creator and to say that you deserve compensation for someone mimicking you is fucking stupid. If this case goes through its going to open flood gates for law suites of "well see I moved similar to this in a movie so give me money"

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13 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

But the tell the story part is in reference to choreography's similar to plays or broadway. These are scripted choreography that make the entertainment as a whole. The carlton dance was just a comedic effect inside a sitcom. Two different beast. 

 

Also there were extremely similar dance moves by singers in the swing days in the 40s and 50s.  So if epic is to be sued, so should Alfonso. 

 

Again you cant copyright human movement, no fucking proof that you are the original creator and to say that you deserve compensation for someone mimicking you is fucking stupid. If this case goes through its going to open flood gates for law suites of "well see I moved similar to this in a movie so give me money"

As Barnatt said, it's very complicated. You cannot copyright a dance, Macarena isn't copyrighted and they tried it, but there might be other things that affect the whole situation. Barnatts no-bones/boneless dance isn't available in Fortnite anymore for a reason or another and it clearly isn't copyrighted, but Barnatt probably has some of his characters copyrighted (Keith Apicary at least) and no-bones might be part of those or as he said that he has used it in all of his videos including paid jobs, he has very strong claim to it and it can be counted as part of his character. Same thing with Carlton, the dance itself might not be copyrighted but the chracter most definetly is and if it's known enough and associated strongly the dance might be part of that character.

 

Also it's stupid to claim a right for waves in air or ink on paper. Hell, trees grow just right and couple of squirrels start mating just the right way and you can hear Taylor Swift song there, no Taylor Swift can prove they were the first to make that note arrangment or even wave pattern. But still they can and that's why there's the limits what you can and cannot copyright. Just as you cannot copyright a single note or even a single beat, but you can copyright a song and if someone uses that songs melody in somewhere else, you are entitled for compensation. You cannot copyright a movement of a leg or a dance move, but you can copyright a choreography like a ballet or performance art piece and so claim a right for a dance provided that it is easily distinguishable and unique, just like a melody or a guitar solo in a song.

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54 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

But the tell the story part is in reference to choreography's similar to plays or broadway. These are scripted choreography that make the entertainment as a whole. The carlton dance was just a comedic effect inside a sitcom. Two different beast. 

 

Also there were extremely similar dance moves by singers in the swing days in the 40s and 50s.  So if epic is to be sued, so should Alfonso. 

 

Again you cant copyright human movement, no fucking proof that you are the original creator and to say that you deserve compensation for someone mimicking you is fucking stupid. If this case goes through its going to open flood gates for law suites of "well see I moved similar to this in a movie so give me money"

You can copyright a script, and the dance is in the script

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On 12/18/2018 at 11:36 PM, Okjoek said:

And like that you've lost me.

He's not wrong though.

 

Patents and trademarks exist for a reason. Problem is that in quite a number of cases, they are abused, many in a rather easy manner

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On 12/18/2018 at 12:00 AM, handymanshandle said:

Uncle Phil's death really sent him off the deep end.

Unfortunately it also sent his beloved boy to the deep end too

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I heard dance was not popular until he started doing it, so i asume he does't even own it copyright etc for it, correct me if i am wrong.

Yep.

 

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21 hours ago, The Owl said:

Apparently there's some issues with this whole thing, according to some research Alfonso previously said publicly that he "stole" the move from some other people, same with the backpack kid.

 

 

Stole it from a 80s bruce springsteen video. The girl is MONICA FROM FRIENDS?

 

 

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On 12/18/2018 at 3:39 AM, w1nger1 said:

Is all because Fortnite is printing money and he just sees it as a opportunity to make some out of it.

As he rightfully should. Epic should have received his consent ahead of time (and it would have been up to him as to whether he would ask for compensation in return). But because Epic didn't seek consent, he never had the opportunity to choose whether to allow the dance in the game (for free or otherwise)

On 12/18/2018 at 6:10 AM, Canada EH said:

Does he have the dance patented or copyrighted or trademarked?

According to the OP, he's in the process of filing the copyright.

 

But that ultimately doesn't matter. Copyright can apply retroactively, since ultimately it's about when you created the copyrightable piece, not when you filed for it.

On 12/18/2018 at 8:18 AM, Brooksie359 said:

Honestly I think is rediculus. I hope he loses the suit because trademarking a dance is actually dumb. 

Why? Dance moves have already been established many times as a copyrightable thing. He basically has next to no chance of losing.

 

There are, of course, limits to the copyright. You're not going to get sued for doing the Carlton for fun at home, or at the club. But if you try to steal the choreography for the dance and use that in a commercial enterprise (Eg: As part of one of the most popular game in the world), you're violating that copyright.

 

Choreography is a highly skilled profession.

 

The dance also has to meet certain requirements, such as there being specific, repeatable, "non generic" steps or parts to the dance.

 

The Milly Rock dance thing, for example (Fortnite emote "Swipe it"), will likely fail to meet those requirements, and will likely therefore not be copyrightable.

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