UPDATE 2 - Czech National Security Agency - Huawei, ZTE are a security threat

[WereCat]

Source:

https://nukib.cz/cs/informacni-servis/hrozby/2680-software-i-hardware-spolecnosti-huawei-a-zte-je-bezpecnostni-hrozbou/

 

Google translated (I may correct later) 

 

Quote

 

 

The National Office for Cybernetics and Information Security (NÚKIB) issued WARNING before using both software and hardware by Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd., and ZTE Corporation. Using these resources is a security threat.
 

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

"Our findings have led us to deliver this warning, including the findings of our security partners, as well as the findings of our allies." 
 

 

 

What? So you read the news? IDK but I find this sentence kinda funny. 

 

Quote

 

 

Chinese law requires private companies operating in China, among other things, to cooperate in intelligence activities, and therefore to put them into systems that are key to the running of the state can pose a threat, "says NÚKIB Director Dušan Navrátil.

 

The NUKIB has also issued a warning because the People's Republic of China actively promotes its interests on the territory of the Czech Republic, including the implementation of intelligence activities of both influence and spying, as evidenced by the annual reports of security services for 2017.
 

 

 

No examples from the annual reports.

 

Seems like it's becoming a World vs Huawei battle. Now I dont know who all these partners of the NUKIB are, but I just cant get rid of the feeling that "allies" in the sentence above meant USA.

 

Honestly, I don't know if this is even worth a new topic. Mods, please merge if you think it needs merge. 

 

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UPDATE 2 - Goverment of Czech Republic response:

 

Source:

http://dsl.sk/article.php?article=21953

 

Quote

 

"Since NUKIB initially failed to explain and clarify its warning, their decision to withdraw Huawei mobile phones was rampant. After an explanation from the NUKIB, it is clear that its warning concerns only systems that are classified into critical information infrastructure or major information systems, which are several dozen. End-users or their end-user devices, such as mobile phones, tablets or modems, are not and will not be endangered. NÚKIB is completely independent of the government when issuing a warning. The government, the BRS and the prime minister can not order the NUKIB to withdraw or revise such a warning. "
 

 

 

Ummm... LOL?

 

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UPDATE - Huawei response:

 

Source:

http://dsl.sk/article.php?article=21945

 

Quote

 

"We categorically reject any claim that our company poses a risk to national security. We ask the Czech National Cyber and Information Security Authority (NÚKIB) to substantiate its claims instead of spoiling Huawei's reputation without any evidence."

 

"Cyber security is and has always been our top priority, we have plenty of proven experience in the Czech Republic and worldwide confirming that our products and solutions are safe." In our thirty-year history, it has never been proven that Huawei has committed any offense in the field of cyber security.This exemplary fact is that we have become a trusted partner for all major telecommunications companies in the Czech Republic.With all of our partners we work together to deliver secure and reliable network solutions in the Czech Republic.

 

"There are no laws or regulations in China that would force Huawei or any other company to install  back doors" into their products. Huawei has never received such a request from any government or government agency and our company would never have agreed with it. "
 

 

[GoldenLag]

10 minutes ago, WereCat said:

"Our findings have led us to deliver this warning, including the findings of our security partners, as well as the findings of our allies." 

Hmmmmm i wonder where these findings came from and i wonder if we will have any substantiated claims?

 

spoiler: i dont think we will

[mr moose]

When it comes to national security you don't need hard evidence, the old better safe than sorry rule is enough. 

[wANKER]

I've not followed the news on this, but are there any actual reasons/examples again Huawei? Other than Because we said so

[CarlBar]

1 minute ago, wANKER said:

I've not followed the news on this, but are there any actual reasons/examples again Huawei? Other than Because we said so

 

As far as i'm aware. Nope.

[WereCat]

2 minutes ago, wANKER said:

I've not followed the news on this, but are there any actual reasons/examples again Huawei? Other than Because we said so

The reasons are allegedly there

[Fnige]

So, "We better trust our instinct"

[BuckGup]

So he said so, so we said so?

[maartendc]

It sounds to me like the US intelligence agencies have evidence that ZTE and Huawei pose a  (cyber)security threat, but this information will not / cannot be made public. However, they deem the issue serious enough to issue warnings to all government and private entities not to do business with ZTE or Huawei.

 

Just because the evidence is not made public, does not mean it does not exist. Just because you are not seeing "evidence" on your local tech news website / Youtube channel does not mean these warnings are without merit.

 

To me, it totally makes sense that the Chinese government would leverage their industries to get an advantage over their adversaries in the world of cybersecurity. Does not seem so far-fetched to me.

[Neftex]

i mean who do you guys think you are? you think youre better than security experts of multiple countries? what expertise do you have to debunk this?

 

ofc they wont make it public, its secret for reasons

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, maartendc said:

It sounds to me like the US intelligence agencies have evidence that ZTE and Huawei pose a  (cyber)security threat,

As I said in the other thread, even if they don't have evidence, somethings are to important to risk,  you don't buy a $4 seat belt buckle for your car from ebay for fear it will fail at thee critical moment, even though we don't have any evidence they will fail.  Same in this situation (assuming they have no evidence),  if other factors point to a potential security breach (or simply any security breach however unintended) being reported in detail back to the Chinese government is enough to say "don't use brand X".

 

 

[LAwLz]

Quote

Chinese law requires private companies operating in China, among other things, to cooperate in intelligence activities, and therefore to put them into systems that are key to the running of the state can pose a threat, "says NÚKIB Director Dušan Navrátil.

So will Australia with their new law, and in the US the government literally hijacks deliveries of network equipment and modify the hardware to make it possible for agencies like the NSA and FBI to intercept traffic.

In the UK they have set up fiber taps to record and monitor all traffic going over large fiber interconnects from other countries.

 

I don't see how China potentially spying on people is any worse than what is already happening in the countries which are all of a sudden freaking out.

It's like some countries one day realized "oh shit, China might be doing the same horrible things we have secretly been doing for decades. That's horrible!"

[Neftex]

3 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

So will Australia with their new law, and in the US the government literally hijacks deliveries of network equipment and modify the hardware to make it possible for agencies like the NSA and FBI to intercept traffic.

In the UK they have set up fiber taps to record and monitor all traffic going over large fiber interconnects from other countries.

 

I don't see how China potentially spying on people is any worse than what is already happening in the countries which are all of a sudden freaking out.

It's like some countries one day realized "oh shit, China might be doing the same horrible things we have secretly been doing for decades. That's horrible!"

do you not see the difference when youre doing this in your own country vs foreign country doing that to you?

[leadeater]

19 minutes ago, Neftex said:

do you not see the difference when youre doing this in your own country vs foreign country doing that to you?

Problem is no one has been able to show any Huawei network equipment actually doing it, sending information to the Chinese government. Neither have there been backdoors or alike in the devices either.

 

If the US wants to ban them for national security reasons that is on them, however extending that to private companies and 'non critical infrastructure' is over reaching. It's also over reaching to then use your political influence with your allied nations to get them banned in those nations too, allies do need to and should act together though otherwise what is the point of being allies.

 

The problem here is the US is blocking Huawei from the global market because they fear that they are a national security threat to them, so the rest of the world should then also block them to keep the US safe?

 

Would be rather naive to think no other technology companies have been lobbying to get them banned or restricted as well.

 

All of this Huawei and ZTE stuff makes the whole free market thing a joke, free until you don't like it then not so much. 

[asus killer]

the czechs know as much about this as i do, "our findings" my ass. Go with the herd. 

Still i do get the better safe then sorry argument.

[Neftex]

@leadeater youre security expert? you have access to the info the secret services share? do you think its only threat in the US?

internet is critical infrastructure nowadays and private companies control a lot of it

again, ofc they wont release the info to the public

[Lurick]

Just now, Neftex said:

@leadeater youre security expert? you have access to the info the secret services share? do you think its only threat in the US?

internet is critical infrastructure nowadays and private companies control a lot of it

again, ofc they wont release the info to the public

So you have the secret information to tell us it's not all political BS?

[Neftex]

1 minute ago, Lurick said:

So you have the secret information to tell us it's not all political BS?

no, but who the hell am i to doubt people who actually know what they are doing over some internet nobodies

[Lurick]

2 minutes ago, Neftex said:

no, but who the hell am i to doubt people who actually know what they are doing over some internet nobodies

You should look at international politics more often then because most of the time it's a bunch of idiots making decisions based on scare mongering tactics they themselves concocted and tricked themselves into fearing and not based on anything in reality. Just look at the BS by Australia with regards to encryption as one example of many.

[mynameisjuan]

1 hour ago, WereCat said:

"Our findings have led us to deliver this warning, including the findings of our security partners, as well as the findings of our allies." 

Where are my fucking details? Please if these claims are going to keep being made show me proof other than 1 incident 3 years ago. Like actual traffic.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, Neftex said:

do you not see the difference when youre doing this in your own country vs foreign country doing that to you?

None of the countries I mentioned are "my country" though, so no I do not see any difference between the US or China logging my data.

I don't see why the Czech republic is OK with the UK and US collecting information about their citizens (which we already have solid evidence for) but are freaking out about China maybe doing it. Especially when it's the US telling the Czech republic that China are spying on them and that's bad.

[Neftex]

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

None of the countries I mentioned are "my country" though, so no I do not see any difference between the US or China logging my data.

I don't see why the Czech republic is OK with the UK and US collecting information about their citizens (which we already have solid evidence for) but are freaking out about China maybe doing it. Especially when it's the US telling the Czech republic that China are spying on them and that's bad.

US and UK are their allies, its not US telling czechs theyre spied on, czechs have their own reports proving russian and china activity

[leadeater]

49 minutes ago, Neftex said:

US and UK are their allies, its not US telling czechs theyre spied on, czechs have their own reports proving russian and china activity

"Our findings" typically being information provided to us. And it's not like I've said working with them is not a security risk but the hardware is not the reason, the hardware has never been able to be proven. Sub contractors of Huawei during projects have stolen documents but there is no link between the hardware as a security risk and persons taking physical and digital documents that they shouldn't be doing or providing them to people who shouldn't have them.

 

But you know what is actually fairly common, corporate espionage not just governmental.

 

1 hour ago, Neftex said:

again, ofc they wont release the info to the public

In my country yes they normally do, we also have laws, 'Official Information Act', where we can request information and the government must comply. There are provisions for national security but in this case it's doubtful a judge will allow the withholding of the information for too long. We aren't a country that just accepts "national security" without question.

 

If you're going to orchestrate a global scale obstruction of a company from the free market you need a damn good reason to be doing it and "Trust us" doesn't cut it.

[Neftex]

@leadeater im not referring to this article when im talking about the reports

what makes you think "our findings" means information provided to them?? they specifically mention "our findings"+"our security partners findings"+"allies findings" - those are 3 different sources

 

your official information act wouldnt get anything done, they would maybe brief some judge on why it cant be public and that would be the end of it

[leadeater]

23 minutes ago, Neftex said:

your official information act wouldnt get anything done, they would maybe brief some judge on why it cant be public and that would be the end of it

Many classified information has been released under the Official Information Act here, it doesn't happen the way you think it does. There is a reason NZ is ranked the most open and transparent government and has been so for a while, or second ranked.

 

23 minutes ago, Neftex said:

what makes you think "our findings" means information provided to them??

Because it's been found that the security agencies had a meeting explicitly to discuss Huawei and they all actively share information. Again vague "We have something" doesn't cut it, either you do so outline it or you don't. You can provide evidence without compromising national security, ever seen a redacted report?

 

Edit:

Also reminder this is about Hauwei not the Chinese government, reports of China and Russia spying is not evidence that Huawei needs to be banned. You'd need to link Chinese spying to Huawei for that.