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Japan bans Huawei and ZTE 5G networking hardware; will Canada be next? + Huawei Blacklisted in New Zealand

Speed Weed
Just now, Blademaster91 said:

And yet the US and it's allies trust China to manufacture most networking hardware. If the US and its allies wants to take a protectionism approach banning Chinese companies, hardware manufactured by the Chinese shouldn't be trusted either.

Why ban companies that are playing nice and not accused of being a national security risk? 

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6 hours ago, handymanshandle said:

Ya know how people are complaining about America taking hard stances on Russia and China? Ya also know how people are bitching that Trump colluded with Russia and China?

Let's choose the story line we wanna follow, folks.

The true irony is that the US spies on people far more prevalently and severely than China for everyone outside of China's sphere of influence which is limited to China itself, North Korea, and certain parts of Africa. 

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I'm confused by the positive reactions to this because whether or not the Chinese government is spying on the end-user has zero implications for said user, especially in comparison to the rampant surveillance practices of the US and their NATO allies, which are not limited to certain brands. All this does for the average user is limit future development for a highly competitive company that produces largely quality products. This more or less seems like selective outrage fueled by nationalism (ie the advocacy for protectionism) on the part of those defending this action. For nation-states, this is purely a political move as they already strictly regulate the devices and encryption used by individuals with any form of security clearance, so this would have little effect on their operations. 

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Eh I'm kinda glad to see this, I don't trust any government but I'd rather my own steal all of my data instead of it going to China. Not that I'd ever buy a China phone anyway

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12 minutes ago, leo1798 said:

I'm confused by the positive reactions to this because whether or not the Chinese government is spying on the end-user has zero implications for said user, especially in comparison to the rampant surveillance practices of the US and their NATO allies, which are not limited to certain brands. All this does for the average user is limit future development for a highly competitive company that produces largely quality products. This more or less seems like selective outrage fueled by nationalism (ie the advocacy for protectionism) on the part of those defending this action. For nation-states, this is purely a political move as they already strictly regulate the devices and encryption used by individuals with any form of security clearance, so this would have little effect on their operations. 

When you actually know and understand what China's government (lead by the China Communist Party) has actually done....you'll understand why people are concerned. I don't want to go any further with this particular discussion (don't want this topic becomming FUBAR), suffice to say that if a company owned by a Chinese citizen is involved in anything that involves sensitve data at all, it can't be trusted due to the laws that they have to follow in China (regardless of how they feel personally).

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3 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

When you actually know and understand what China's government (lead by the China Communist Party) has actually done....you'll understand why people are concerned. I don't want to go any further with this particular discussion (don't want this topic becomming FUBAR), suffice to say that if a company owned by a Chinese citizen is involved in anything that involves sensitve data at all, it can't be trusted due to the laws that they have to follow in China (regardless of how they feel personally).

Similarly, Western governments have made malicious use of data they have gathered from mass-surveillance programs to target whistle-blowers and political adversaries, so again, this clearly seems like selective outrage. My point is that, unless you are a Chinese citizen, this doesn't concern you in any way, shape, or form as they cannot use your data against you unless you travel within China or their sphere of influence. You should be far more concerned about your own government who is spying on you in greater depth and with greater malice than any foreign entity could hope to do.

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2 minutes ago, leo1798 said:

Similarly, Western governments have made malicious use of data they have gathered from mass-surveillance programs to target whistle-blowers and political adversaries, so again, this clearly seems like selective outrage. My point is that, unless you are a Chinese citizen, this doesn't concern you in any way, shape, or form as they cannot use your data against you unless you travel within China or their sphere of influence. You should be far more concerned about your own government who is spying on you in greater depth and with greater malice than any foreign entity could hope to do.

Not discussing it further. Look up what China's communist Government has done. Hint: Not much better than NK.

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So because China's authoritarian government who calls themselves "Communist" the same as NK calls themselves "Democratic" is doing it, it makes it worse than what the US and Europe's authoritarian governments have done, because McCarthyism. Thanks. Point Proven.

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I'm not so much worried about who make the cell towers because, to be honest, I have nothing important to the point of where I need to be worried about who made what cell tower tech. I'm more worried about health concerns. There was evidence suggesting that it gave people in test areas different health problems and then they just stopped when they finally stopped testing everyone was suddenly feeling great. Even with all this 5g tech being rushed out I think 4g is fine until they refine 5g and take out all the kinks and problems.

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In the end the price increase from buying more expensive hardware will always end up on the consumer.

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2 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

Suffice to say there is a lot of "or else" if companies in china don't comply with government wishes.

 

And that different to the law Australia just passed how? Oh wait it isn't.

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8 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

And that different to the law Australia just passed how? Oh wait it isn't.

There is a difference between stupidity (a common theme with our politicians) and malicious intent. Also that really is a non argument.

1 hour ago, leo1798 said:

So because China's authoritarian government who calls themselves "Communist" the same as NK calls themselves "Democratic" is doing it, it makes it worse than what the US and Europe's authoritarian governments have done, because McCarthyism. Thanks. Point Proven.

I'll send you a link for some info on a certain incidence over 25 years ago in China.....that involved a certain peaceful protest and the response that you won't see in the US or EU (BTW the US is actually a republic, not democratic).

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2 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

There is a difference between stupidity (a common theme with our politicians) and malicious intent. And that really is a non argument.

I've always held that majority of politicians are aggravating, annoying, conniving,  not to be trusted, shrewd and even sly, but Very few are actually stupid.  They know what they are doing when they pass these laws, make no mistake.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I've always held that majority of politicians are aggravating, annoying, conniving,  not to be trusted, shrewd and even sly, but Very few are actually stupid.  They know what they are doing when they pass these laws, make no mistake.

 

Honestly he's not worth the effort of arguing with at this point. It's clear he's got massive blinders on which make trying to actually reason with him pointless. If it doesn't fit his narrative he won't even acknowledge it exists.

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14 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

Honestly he's not worth the effort of arguing with at this point. It's clear he's got massive blinders on which make trying to actually reason with him pointless. If it doesn't fit his narrative he won't even acknowledge it exists.

Our politicians can and do get given the boot. And straight up "but what about what X is doing" doesn't add to the topic at hand. Kind of over that kind of thing with what happens when a negative Apple or Android topic pops up.

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Huawey was just getting to big a company and the US can't stand it. The rest is unsubstantiated claims of this and that with zero actual evidence.

To bad that with so many real evidence of shit going on in facebook, apple, google and all the major US tech companies the US seems to do nothing to put them in line.

 

Weird that countries like canada or japan are willing to do the US dirty work, probably part of those crazy trump trade deals.

 

Orange man's America first bull crap

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out of all the countries that rip all my data from my usage, china is not the one i care the most about having it. i dont like any of them having it but im not too concerened with what china would do with it

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2 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

There is a difference between stupidity (a common theme with our politicians) and malicious intent. Also that really is a non argument.

I'll send you a link for some info on a certain incidence over 25 years ago in China.....that involved a certain peaceful protest and the response that you won't see in the US or EU (BTW the US is actually a republic, not democratic).

Can you also send us a link on info how many sovereign countries and civilian lives were destroyed by illegall wars waged by US and their NATO allies? Don't even have to go 25 years to the past.

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Some random thoughts:

1) Since the US and other countries are in many ways mirroring China with their backdoors into equipment, the US even going as far as to hijack transports and modifying network equipment between distribution centers and the destination, I, as a Swedish citizen, don't really see why China is less trustworthy than the US. To me, they are both equally bad, and I honestly trust US companies as little as I trust Chinese companies.

 

2) What is the point in banning 5G equipment if you're not going to ban things like their switches and routers? Banning the 5G equipment, but not the switches where all the 5G traffic gets passed though seems kind of pointless.

 

3) Can we even trust products from US companies if they are manufactured in China? I mean, the Chinese factories have all the schematics and documentation for creating these products, and they are responsible for producing them. So what really is the difference between a Chinese company, and a US company who design stuff in the US but have them produced in China?

 

3 hours ago, Bigbootyjudy said:

I'm not so much worried about who make the cell towers because, to be honest, I have nothing important to the point of where I need to be worried about who made what cell tower tech. I'm more worried about health concerns. There was evidence suggesting that it gave people in test areas different health problems and then they just stopped when they finally stopped testing everyone was suddenly feeling great. Even with all this 5g tech being rushed out I think 4g is fine until they refine 5g and take out all the kinks and problems.

Got a link to that? Sounds like the typical "I am allergic to WiFi" stuff which has been proven false over and over.

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1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

 

2) What is the point in banning 5G equipment if you're not going to ban things like their switches and routers? Banning the 5G equipment, but not the switches where all the 5G traffic gets passed though seems kind of pointless.

 

because the point is to kill the company not any security claim. 

 

This is like they said in Narcos, the US couldn't care less about the drugs, they cared when they seen the amount of money exiting the country. This is part of a trade and technology war. The US is afraid China overtakes them in tech.

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2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

don't really see why China is less trustworthy than the US. To me, they are both equally bad, and I honestly trust US companies as little as I trust Chinese companies.

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4 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

What is the point in banning 5G equipment if you're not going to ban things like their switches and routers? Banning the 5G equipment, but not the switches where all the 5G traffic gets passed though seems kind of pointless.

A comment in the context of my country it annoys me more that the US is using it's political influence over my country to get a very industry competitive company banned directly impacting our deployment timeline of 5G, it was fairly far down the planning stages, and increasing the cost.

 

Both may, are, spying on me but only one is actually impacting me and my country in technological and economic progression.

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Like I said before, this whole tussle with the arrest of Huawei's CFO likely has a lot more to do than alleged circumvention of Iranian sanctions. 

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17 hours ago, Speed Weed said:

Japan’s government has decided to block the Chinese company and its smaller rival ZTE from network hardware procurement. Not coincidentally, Canadian authorities are publicly discussing a similar ban following last week’s arrest of Huawei’s CFO.

Everyone tries to paint this whole situation back on the USA, but given how many countries are following suit, there has to be something going on behind the scenes that they're not telling us.  Multiple countries globally don't just randomly decide to wage war (metaphorically speaking) with a single company, without some sort of reason.

10 hours ago, leo1798 said:

because McCarthyism

Funny story: McCarthy was actually right.

8 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

(BTW the US is actually a republic, not democratic)

It always bugs me when people get that wrong (especially when our own politicians say it wrong).

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17 hours ago, handymanshandle said:

Ya know how people are complaining about America taking hard stances on Russia and China? Ya also know how people are bitching that Trump colluded with Russia and China?

Let's choose the story line we wanna follow, folks.

Trump colluded with China? When?

 

America=/=Trump

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