Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

"Massive Evidence" of DRAM Price Fixing Found in Chinese Investigation

Deus Voltage
 Share

There is a good reason why I put "Massive Evidence" in quotation marks. It's because the Chinese government hasn't released the evidence even though they claim to have found it. KitGuru had this to say about it:

 

Quote

Speaking with The Financial Times, China’s anti-monopoly bureau head, Wu Zenghou, noted that the DRAM price fixing investigation has “made important progress”. He also added that “massive evidence” of anti-competitive behaviour has been uncovered, although specific examples weren’t given.

 

 

The Financial Times Times article is price locked, but an article from Techspot quoted them as saying the following:

 

Quote

Chinese inspectors have reportedly found "massive evidence" that Samsung, Hynix, and Micron are indeed fixing DRAM prices.

 

Not a lot to go on, but Gamers Nexus released a news video discussing it:

 

 

 

My opinion:

I'm really curious about the evidence, this could shake up the market in a big way. But I'll keep a tiny margin of skepticism because DRAM use has admittedly increased as of the past few years because of smartphones and whatnot. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

In other news, China has stated they have "massive evidence" that water is wet.

CPU: Intel i7 6700k  | Motherboard: Gigabyte Z170x Gaming 5 | RAM: 2x16GB 3000MHz Corsair Vengeance LPX | GPU: Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1080ti | PSU: Corsair RM750x (2018) | Case: BeQuiet SilentBase 800 | Cooler: Arctic Freezer 34 eSports | SSD: Samsung 970 Evo 500GB + Samsung 840 500GB + Crucial MX500 2TB | Monitor: Acer Predator XB271HU + Samsung BX2450

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, Spotty said:

In other news, China has stated they have "massive evidence" that water is wet.

Reminds of those videos where Serpentza gets "caught" by Chinese old men for "spying" while he's actually shooting a YouTube video. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not release the evidence? If its really incriminating and affects global supply, why go against said companies alone?

Awareness is key. Never enough, even in the face of futility. Speak the truth as if you may never get to say it again. This world is full of ugly. Change it they say. The only way is to reveal the ugly. To change the truth you must first acknowledge it. Never pretend it isn't there. Never bend the knee.

 

Please quote my post in your reply, so that I will be notified and can respond to it. Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me even a teeny, tiny bit, if there was, indeed, price-fixing happening wrt. DDR. Wouldn't be the first time and definitely not the last time.

Hand, n. A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody’s pocket.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

Why not release the evidence? If its really incriminating and affects global supply, why go against said companies alone?

because allegations can get you in trouble if you don't have serious proof.

 

My Folding Stats

 

X  Vigilo Confido  X

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, huilun02 said:

Why not release the evidence? If its really incriminating and affects global supply, why go against said companies alone?

Knowing China, the way they got the evidence might not have been legal...

Maybe the DRAM companies were using SuperMicro servers? :D

CPU: Intel i7 6700k  | Motherboard: Gigabyte Z170x Gaming 5 | RAM: 2x16GB 3000MHz Corsair Vengeance LPX | GPU: Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1080ti | PSU: Corsair RM750x (2018) | Case: BeQuiet SilentBase 800 | Cooler: Arctic Freezer 34 eSports | SSD: Samsung 970 Evo 500GB + Samsung 840 500GB + Crucial MX500 2TB | Monitor: Acer Predator XB271HU + Samsung BX2450

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thing is that you can say "oh yeah I expected it, I know that", but doing nothing or don't have your voice raised will just ease them with those price manipulations. They will just raise the price as high as they can.

Motherboard: MSI BM250-PRO-VD           <-- Build 1    Build 2 -->        Motherboard: ASRock Z370M Pro4                     
CPU: Intel Core i7-7700                                                   CPU: Intel Core i7-8700K
GPU: Gigabyte G1 Gaming GTX 1080                                          GPU: Gigabyte Windforce OC GTX660 (Saving money for RTX 2080)
RAM: 16GB HyperX Fury DDR4 2400Mhz                                        RAM: HyperX Predator 16gb DDR4 3000mhz
PSU: Seasonic M12II EVO 620w Bronze+                                      PSU: Seasonic Focus Gold Plus 650W
CPU Cooler: Gammax 400                                                    CPU Cooler: Gammax 400
SSD: Kingston A400 250GB                                                  HDD/SSD: 3 * 1TB WD blue Kingston A400 250GB 
Headphones: HYPERX CLOUD ALPHA                                                                                               Case: Thermaltake V200 RGB
Monitor: LG 24GM77                                                                                                               Mouse: SteelSeries Rival 600
CaseFans: 3 140mm                                                                                                                Phone: Samsung Galaxy S8+
HDD: 1TB 7200RPM
Mouse: SteelSeries Rival 500
Phone: Nokia 7 plus



hehe yeaaah boy
https://linustechtips.com/main/uploads/monthly_2018_09/111.PNG.5713b4f39cae3a5badac216b30d99e65.PNG

 

You want to code but don't know how ? (Personal list)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

RAM prices have still been coming down though...

My Build, v2.1 --- CPU: i7-8700K @ 5.2GHz/1.288v || MoBo: Asus ROG STRIX Z390-E Gaming || RAM: 4x4GB G.SKILL Ripjaws 4 2666 14-14-14-33 || Cooler: Custom Loop || GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC Black, on water || PSU: EVGA G2 850W || Case: Corsair 450D || SSD: 850 Evo 250GB, Intel 660p 2TB || Storage: WD Blue 2TB || G502 & Glorious PCGR Fully Custom 80% Keyboard || MX34VQ, PG278Q, PB278Q

Audio --- Headphones: Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX || Amp: Schiit Audio Magni 3 || DAC: Schiit Audio Modi 3 || Mic: Blue Yeti

 

[Under Construction]

 

My Truck --- 2002 F-350 7.3 Powerstroke || 6-speed

My Car --- 2006 Mustang GT || 5-speed || BBK LTs, O/R X, MBRP Cat-back || BBK Lowering Springs, LCAs || 2007 GT500 wheels w/ 245s/285s

 

The Experiment --- CPU: i5-3570K @ 4.0 GHz || MoBo: Asus P8Z77-V LK || RAM: 16GB Corsair 1600 4x4 || Cooler: CM Hyper 212 Evo || GPUs: Asus GTX 750 Ti, || PSU: Corsair TX750M Gold || Case: Thermaltake Core G21 TG || SSD: 840 Pro 128GB || HDD: Seagate Barracuda 2TB

 

R.I.P. Asus X99-A motherboard, April 2016 - October 2018, may you rest in peace. 5820K, if I ever buy you a new board, it'll be a good one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

Why not release the evidence? If its really incriminating and affects global supply, why go against said companies alone?

Maybe they are only price fixing in china.  They only listed the South Korean companies and at a time when there are several Chinese startups in the ram business including a Taiwanese mob who just started seeking approval to build a fab in China.

 

Not that I wish to fan the flames of conspiracies but n you know, this is china, and the whole industry is messy right now.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Back in 2002 5 companies were accused of price fixing, Samsung, Hynix, Infineon, Micron Technology & Elpida.

 

Out of the 5 only Elpida escaped without being convicted, wanna guess how much they were fined?

 

For Micron I can't find the exact value, Infineon were fined $160M, Hynix $180M and in the case of Samsung they were fined $250,000 but an employee was also sent to prison.

 

Edit - It seems as though a boss at Micron was convicted of altering and destroying documents that were subject to a court subpoena.

 

Now those figures might sound like a lot until you start to consider just how much they made by keeping prices almost double across the entire globe for multiple years. I'd wager the fines were an order of magnitude less than the profit these companies walked away with.

 

It's a very common tactic in modern corporate business, if the expected payout from illegal activity is more than the expected fine then just go ahead and do the illegal thing and deal with the consequences if and when you're caught.

 

Main Rig:-

Ryzen 7 3800X | Asus ROG Strix X570-F Gaming | 16GB Team Group Dark Pro 3600Mhz | Corsair MP600 1TB PCIe Gen 4 | Sapphire 5700 XT Pulse | Corsair H115i Platinum | WD Black 1TB | WD Green 4TB | EVGA SuperNOVA G3 650W | Asus TUF GT501 | Samsung C27HG70 1440p 144hz HDR FreeSync 2 | Ubuntu 20.04.2 LTS |

 

Server:-

Intel NUC running Server 2019 + Synology DSM218+ with 2 x 4TB Toshiba NAS Ready HDDs (RAID0)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Back in 2002 5 companies were accused of price fixing, Samsung, Hynix, Infineon, Micron Technology & Elpida.

 

Out of the 5 only Elpida escaped without being convicted, wanna guess how much they were fined?

 

For Micron I can't find the exact value, Infineon were fined $160M, Hynix $180M and in the case of Samsung they were fined $250,000 but an employee was also sent to prison.

 

Edit - It seems as though a boss at Micron was convicted of altering and destroying documents that were subject to a court subpoena.

 

Now those figures might sound like a lot until you start to consider just how much they made by keeping prices almost double across the entire globe for multiple years. I'd wager the fines were an order of magnitude less than the profit these companies walked away with.

 

It's a very common tactic in modern corporate business, if the expected payout from illegal activity is more than the expected fine then just go ahead and do the illegal thing and deal with the consequences if and when you're caught.

 

Is there a way to impose percentage based fines? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Deus Voltage said:

Is there a way to impose percentage based fines? 

Nope,  Although the idea sounds just and companies should be held to account in a more "accountable" way. Once you start imposing fines that cause damage to a business the risk then occurs that people will be sacked or potential tax revenue will be lost.  Neither of those are good side effects as governments need both people to have jobs and tax revenue to remain in power.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Nope,  Although the idea sounds just and companies should be held to account in a more "accountable" way. Once you start imposing fines that cause damage to a business the risk then occurs that people will be sacked or potential tax revenue will be lost.  Neither of those are good side effects as governments need both people to have jobs and tax revenue to remain in power.

But they could fine them to the extent that they gained from price fixing AFAIK. Yes it will hurt but those companies deserve it IMO...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, jagdtigger said:

But they could fine them to the extent that they gained from price fixing AFAIK. Yes it will hurt but those companies deserve it IMO...

Companies deserve it, make no mistake they should pay back everything they got from it.  The problem is that it is very hard to quantify that gain (there is never hard evidence to prove how much that was. Once a company declares a downturn in the market and lack of profits (due partly to the fines) then layoffs occur, that results in angry people who vote the other way. 

 

About the only thing I can see that would work without causing said side effects would be to actually hold the CEO and board of directors accountable personally (jail time or personal fines for allowing the company to carry out fraud on that scale).

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

About the only thing I can see that would work without causing said side effects would be to actually hold the CEO and board of directors accountable personally (jail time or personal fines for allowing the company to carry out fraud on that scale).

Jail is way to generous. A hardcore confiscation(take everything they got basically) would be a better "scarecrow"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Companies deserve it, make no mistake they should pay back everything they got from it.  The problem is that it is very hard to quantify that gain (there is never hard evidence to prove how much that was. Once a company declares a downturn in the market and lack of profits (due partly to the fines) then layoffs occur, that results in angry people who vote the other way. 

 

About the only thing I can see that would work without causing said side effects would be to actually hold the CEO and board of directors accountable personally (jail time or personal fines for allowing the company to carry out fraud on that scale).

A running fine untill they stop price fixing would also probably be more effective than one big one. 

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. 
It matters that you don't just give up.”

-Stephen Hawking

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Specs: Motherboard: Asus X470-PLUS TUF gaming (Yes I know it's poor but I wasn't informed) RAM: Corsair VENGEANCE® LPX DDR4 3200Mhz CL16-18-18-36 2x8GB

            CPU: Ryzen 9 5900X          Case: Antec P8     PSU: Corsair RM850x                        Cooler: Antec K240 with two Noctura Industrial PPC 3000 PWM

            Drives: Samsung 970 EVO plus 250GB, Micron 1100 2TB, Seagate ST4000DM000/1F2168 GPU: EVGA RTX 2080 ti Black edition

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah ok so when will RAM prices go down in half then. Like they used to be. 

Ryzen 7 3800X | X570 Aorus Elite | G.Skill 16GB 3200MHz C16 | Radeon RX 5700 XT | Samsung 850 PRO 256GB |Mousepad: Skypad 3.0 XL | Mouse: Zowie S1-C |Keyboard: Corsair K63 MX red | OS: Windows 11

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, huilun02 said:

Why not release the evidence? If its really incriminating and affects global supply, why go against said companies alone?

maybe they dont want to release but to blackmail them all

lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow good job guys that's the equivalent someone stealing something right in front of a cop and then forcing them to go get the security footage to prove it even though everyone knows he stole it. Also they don't care at all they will loose way less money in fines then they made from price fixing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like China is getting desperate now that the tarriffs are taking their toll. If the evidence is massive, youd think theyd release it before making allegations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ill go with supply shortage from request spike and factories burning to the ground until I see proof otherwise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Cereal5 said:

RAM prices have still been coming down though...

Only very gradually.

11 hours ago, mr moose said:

Maybe they are only price fixing in china.  They only listed the South Korean companies and at a time when there are several Chinese startups in the ram business including a Taiwanese mob who just started seeking approval to build a fab in China.

 

Not that I wish to fan the flames of conspiracies but n you know, this is china, and the whole industry is messy right now.

Doing it in China would still have global consequences. Also I doubt that's really the case as the Chinese market would tend to be more price-sensitive and also more likely to just expand their own DRAM production.

10 hours ago, Deus Voltage said:

Is there a way to impose percentage based fines? 

Depends on the legislation in each country. Happens in the EU, for example.

10 hours ago, mr moose said:

Nope,  Although the idea sounds just and companies should be held to account in a more "accountable" way. Once you start imposing fines that cause damage to a business the risk then occurs that people will be sacked or potential tax revenue will be lost.  Neither of those are good side effects as governments need both people to have jobs and tax revenue to remain in power.

Does happen in the EU.

6 hours ago, Doobeedoo said:

Yeah ok so when will RAM prices go down in half then. Like they used to be. 

Could take a long time. The RAM prices at the bottom were probably not financially sustainable, at least with the production costs at the time. Production cost per GB goes down over time, but that trend's slowing down as we're hitting the end of Moore's law.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, huilun02 said:

Why not release the evidence? If its really incriminating and affects global supply, why go against said companies alone?

Because it's likely not true, but that doesn't matter to China.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share


×