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stealth80

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  1. Informative
    stealth80 got a reaction from AskTJ in Buying Ryzen? Confused about ram? Read here   
    Hi, I guess many people (like me) are now moving to Ryzen builds and why not. As part of this I have noticed quite a LOT of questions regarding ram, what type, how fast and compatibility. Let me try and address a few of these questions and myths.
     
    1. Compatibility -
     
    Whenever a new platform is released, Ryzen, X99, Athlon 64 etc there is always issues with ram support. This is (not recently) not due to the ram itself, its basically due to brand new chipset, brand new CPU and bios's and CPU instruction needing development and testing across the different multitudes of build configurations. 
    Ryzen is no different, when it released hardly anyone could get high ram speeds, this isn't due to bad ram etc, it's just the bios not mature enough and the instructions within the CPU not knowing how to deal with it. We are still at the point of Samsung B Die offering the best experience with Ryzen, but that is kinda expensive - for note, Samsung B die has pretty much 100% chance of being used in Ram kits of 3200mhz and CAS Latency of 14 and 3600mhz kits using CAS latency 16. Everything else is likely to be Hynix or another form of Samsung or Micron. 
    Ok, so here's whats happened (and will keep happening) AMD release new codes/microcodes which are CPU improvements to Motherboard manufacturers in the form Agesa updates. You usually hear about them before hand via AMD Community updates:
     
    https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/04/06/amd-ryzen-community-update-3     as an example
     
    Once the board makers receive these updates, they then make a new bios to implement those improvements, they are available normally as a Beta/test bios before appearing on boards official download pages - also take note that flagship boards will receive the beta bios's first and will then trickle down to the mid and low level boards.
     
    So why all this information? 
     
    The last 2 Agesa updates (1005 and 1006) have offered massive ram compatibility and speed improvements. The most recent, Agesa 1006 now offers us speed support of upto 4000mhz! That doesn't mean we can run 4000mhz yet, remember it is still early days. 
     
    So what is my point? Don't spend money on AMD Ryzen branded ram just because of compatibility concerns, pretty much all ram will work with Ryzen to some degree, what normally happens is it will default to 2133mhz until you play around with various settings. Also note that XMP is still hit and miss - it doesn't mean your ram isn't compatible, just means you need to configure it yourselt (more later)
     
    As requested I have added some shortcuts to help people find the QVL for their boards
     
    Asus 
     
    Crosshair 6 Extreme
     
    https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/ROG-CROSSHAIR-VI-EXTREME/HelpDesk_QVL/
     
    Crosshair 6 Hero
     
    https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/ROG-CROSSHAIR-VI-HERO/HelpDesk_QVL/
     
    X370  Prime Pro
     
    https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/PRIME-X370-PRO/HelpDesk_QVL/
     
    X370 RoG Strix F
     
    https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-X370-F-GAMING/HelpDesk_QVL/
     
    B350 Prime Plus
     
    https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/PRIME-B350-PLUS/HelpDesk_QVL/
     
     
    AsRock
     
    X370 Taichi
     
    http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X370 Taichi/index.us.asp#Memory
     
    X370 Fatality Gaming X
     
    http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty X370 Gaming X/index.us.asp#Memory
     
    X370 Fatality Gaming K4
     
    http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty X370 Gaming K4/index.us.asp#Memory
     
    X370 Killer SLI
     
    http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X370 Killer SLI/index.us.asp#Memory
     
    B350 Gaming K4
     
    http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty AB350 Gaming K4/index.us.asp#Memory
     
     
    Gigabyte
     
    X370 Gaming 5 Aorus
     
    http://uk.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AX370-Gaming-5-rev-10#support-doc
     
    X370 Gaming K7
     
    http://uk.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AX370-Gaming-K7-rev-10#support-doc
     
    X370 Gaming K5
     
    http://uk.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AX370-Gaming-K5-rev-10#support-doc
     
    AB350 Gaming 3
     
    http://uk.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AB350-Gaming-3-rev-10#support-doc
     
     
    MSI
     
    X370 X Power Gaming Titanium
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/X370-XPOWER-GAMING-TITANIUM.html#support-mem-2
     
    X370 Pro Carbon
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/X370-GAMING-PRO-CARBON.html#support-mem-2
     
    X370 Gaming Plus
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/X370-GAMING-PLUS.html#support-mem-2
     
    X370 SLI Krait Gaming
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/X370-KRAIT-GAMING.html#support-mem-2
     
    B350M Mortar Arctic
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B350M-MORTAR-ARCTIC.html#support-mem-2
     
    B350 Tomahawk Arctic
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B350-TOMAHAWK-ARCTIC.html#support-mem-2
     
    B350 Gaming Plus
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B350-GAMING-PLUS.html#support-mem-2
     
     
    That is most of the popular boards, it's pretty easy find your board from there if I haven't included it. If you feel your board is popular or you can't find the QVL, reply to this thread and I will update it with your board.
     
     
    Next, 
     
    2) Speed 
     
    Don't try and save $$$/£££ off your build here guys  - Ram speed is really important to Ryzen, especially in gaming. A little info here: Ryzen is basically 2 cores/cpus build on board (really basic terms here) and communicate to each other over something called "infinity fabric" This communication lane operates at exactly half of your ram speed, faster ram = lower Infinity Fabric latency = more performance.
     
    Want some figures? Today I ran RIse of the Tomb Raider benchmark at 1080P on my sig rig using both 2133mhz and 3333mhz ram speeds and here's the results:
     
    2133mhz
     

     
    3333mhz
     

     
    As you can see, that is over 30% improvement right there! 
     
    I can't get my ram to run any faster as it is using Hynix and is only rated for 3200mhz (for information - this ram is still not on the QVL for my board)
     
    TL/DR - BUY THE FASTEST RAM YOU CAN AFFORD - I would happily stick with the wraith cooler for a month or so if it meant the difference between 2400mhz ram + an AIO or Wraith + 3600mhz ram!!
     
     
    3) Ok I bought non QVL ram and it won't post above 2133mhz
     
    Don't panic!
     
    Take note of the timings of the ram from the sticks eg
     
    16-18-18-38-2T (could be 2CR or 2N)
     
    Ok so what you want to try and do is enter the timings manually, increase SOC voltage to 1.2v and DDR Voltage to 1.35v, manually set the next speed and reboot. If it works great, go back and do this again until you get to the point where it again fails to boot.
     
    Here you have 2 options:
     
    1) Stick with that speed. If it is equal to or better than what your ram is tested to aka 3000mhz ram and you got 3200mhz stable great! If it is below (which a lot of people are seeing) say 2666mhz or 2933mhz then you can either wait for more bios updates and try again or try a new beta bios or
     
    2) Play more with your ram! So I have my own example here:
     
    My ram fails XMP above 2933mhz for what ever reason. However by adding/changing some settings
     
    SOC V - 1.25v
    DDRV - 1.5V (this is over volting and is at your risk if you opt to do it)
    loosen my timings from 16-18-18-38-2T to 20-20-20-40-2T
     
    I'm now able to boot and run 3333mhz ram on my Trident Z RGB 3200mhz ram that isn't on the QVL for my board
     
     
    4) I need more than 16gb, does this affect my desired speed?
     
    Ok so now I given a basic understanding of the affects of ram speed and why it is important, lets talk about capacity, because at this time, it is directly related to the officially support ram speeds. Let me explain:
     
    Here is the list of officially support ram speeds from AMD - This is the fastest you can go with zero overclocking, cause yes, when you push the ram to a higher speed, it is still overclocking the CPU which as you know, depends on silicon lottery/binning and how much voltage you're willing to apply to the CPU
     
    DDR4 Speed (MT/s) Memory Ranks DIMM Quantities 2667 Single 2 2400 Dual 2 2133 Single 4 1866 Dual 4  
    So, as you can see, the best scenario at this time for the fastest ram is go with 2x single sided dims, aka 2x 8gb (although some 8gb sticks can be double sided, do your research) - this gives us our best shot at max speeds
     
    if you need 32gb, then it is best to go for 2x 16gb sticks rather than 4x 8gb as it applies less stress to the IMC (internal Memory Controller) of the CPU and will allow faster speeds as you can see above.
     
    Worst case scenario is 4x 16gb sticks (double sided dims) lowering the officially supported speed to 1866mhz 
     
    Remember this is prior to overclocking - You may get 4x 16gb sticks and be able to hit 2933mhz, above that is rarely heard of at this time.
     
     
     
    5) I bought the fastest ram I can afford and no matter what I do, it refuses to go any faster than X speed, even though its tested to 3600/4000 etc
     
    Ok so lets assume you did everything above from point 3) and your 3600mhz ram still refuses to boot above for example 3333mhz. Now this could be due to the platform needing more updates (agesa) or plain and simple, a CPU limitation. Overclocking ram (above 2666mhz) is still CPU overclocking. As we know all CPU's have a ceiling for overclocking and it may just be the case that your particular chip is not capable of running that ram. Which is unfortunate, this is just something to keep in mind with ram speed expectations.
     
     
    6) Ok smart arse, what ram do you recommend then for a more "pleasant" Ryzen experience?
     
    Firstly - Try and avoid 16gb Sticks like the plague and I would also avoid using all 4 dimms until more updates are released.
    As I have already said, go for the fastest ram you can afford. If you want to try and avoid as many of these problems as possible, then go for Samsung B Die, heres a list of RAM that is "Probably/high chance" aka not 100% guaranteed (LOL) to be Samsung B die:
     
    3200mhz
     
    https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#s=403200&Z=16384002&L=140
     
    3600mhz
     
    https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#Z=16384002&L=160&s=403600
     
    4000mhz
     
    https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#Z=16384002&L=160,190&s=404000
     
    There will be other Samsung B Kits out there, just do your research.
     
    7) Ram tuning
     
    AMD recently did some in house testing of different variables when choosing between different ram kits at 3200mhz and above - this included DR vs SR (double rank vs single rank), 1T vs 2T and various ram timings. It can be found here, please keep in mind that is at 3200mhz and above, is don't look to swap out frequency for latency at speeds less than that when buying your ram.
     
    https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/07/14/memory-oc-showdown-frequency-vs-memory-timings
     
    TLDR: SR, 1T CAS 14 3466mhz is the fastest on this test
     

     

     
    8) So, X399 is here, is anything different? What ram is best? Does Capacity affect the max speed?
     
    I will answer these questions as more information becomes available - keep in mind that the information I had for X370 was first hand as I have the platform and experience. X399 I will provide information from research as I think my wife would categorically castrate me if I swapped out my 3 month X370 system for an X399 rig!! 
     
    1) At this time I can't find any testing of Threadripper at different ram speeds. The only information that I have come across is Game Mode - Which basically disables half of the CPU cares to reduce ram latency. The problem is, not every game is latency sensitive, some prefer cores - so it seems to be a little hit and miss as when and when not to use it.
     

     
    http://www.pcworld.com/article/3214635/components-processors/ryzen-threadripper-review-we-test-amds-monster-cpu.html
     
    Hope this helps
     
    Stealth
     
     
  2. Agree
    stealth80 got a reaction from YourNewPalAlex in best psu for this build (the cheaper the better)   
    Its all rumour, some say computeks, some say july/aug with FE arriving Aug. If you're building right now go with the 1070ti, unless you can find a 1080 at the same price 
  3. Like
    stealth80 got a reaction from aisle9 in best psu for this build (the cheaper the better)   
    Im on my mobile but here’s a rough cut
     
    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
    CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 2600X 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor  ($209.99 @ Amazon) 
    Motherboard: Gigabyte - X470 AORUS ULTRA GAMING ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($140.98 @ Newegg) 
    Memory: G.Skill - Aegis 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($154.99 @ Newegg) 
    Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($43.90 @ OutletPC) 
    Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1070 Ti 8GB SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black Edition Video Card  ($469.99 @ Amazon) 
    Case: NZXT - S340 (White) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($56.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
    Power Supply: Corsair - CXM 550W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($64.99 @ Newegg) 
    Monitor: Acer - GN246HL 24.0" 1920x1080 144Hz Monitor  ($194.62 @ B&H) 
    Total: $1336.45
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-06-02 16:56 EDT-0400
  4. Funny
    stealth80 reacted to Dujith in Unknown graphics card   
    @Wolf ~ IRONI @frozenboi810 Pictures are needed  
  5. Informative
    stealth80 reacted to mariushm in Anyway to know if I bent my motherboard pins, with a software ?   
    No.
     
    The sockets have many contacts that may not be connected to anything, or may only be used if you have a specific processor for that socket.
     
    For example, some contacts are used by each pci-e lane coming from the cpu. The socket may accept a cpu with 24 pci-e lanes and it may also accept a cpu that only has 16 pci-e lanes - if you install the cpu with 16 pci-e lanes and the contacts for the 18th pci-e lane are bad, then the cpu would still work because those contacts in the socket are not connected to anything inside the cpu.
     
    There's also a lot of contacts that do the same job. for example the contacts for power going into the processor - the processor uses way too much power than what's possible to transfer through a single pair of contacts, so there's tens of pairs of contacts spread all over the area of the processor bottom which are there to transfer power to the cpu.
    Then a big part of the contacts are for memory - if you're lucky one contact may be part of the second memory channel, so you may get memory errors only if you install memory sticks in the memory slots belonging to the second memory channel.
     
    Here's an example of a processor - see all those black and red squares ? Those are ground (black, like the negative on your battery) and voltage (the positive on your battery) - if one or two of those contacts are damaged, chances are the others will pick up the slack and your cpu will be still working fine.
    And the magenta and blue teal bits (top left and top right) are the memory controller contacts , two memory channels, one channel on each side of the cpu socket... if you damage one of those, chances are the cpu will still work fine if you only use memory sticks on the other channel.
     

  6. Agree
    stealth80 reacted to DarkSmith2 in Anyway to know if I bent my motherboard pins, with a software ?   
    No, bent pins can cause a whole lot of different symptoms including none at all. Common symptomes are related to RAM, not able to run it in dual channel mode and stuff, having some slots not working or not being able to get it stable at higher than default "2133 clock". There are also pins on the socket that literally do nothing. So if you dont encounter any weird problems with your PC why would you think that your pins are bent?
  7. Agree
    stealth80 got a reaction from huilun02 in Good G-Sync Monitor Under $350   
    350 what? cars? 
  8. Like
    stealth80 got a reaction from I-r0k in Buying Ryzen? Confused about ram? Read here   
    Hi, I guess many people (like me) are now moving to Ryzen builds and why not. As part of this I have noticed quite a LOT of questions regarding ram, what type, how fast and compatibility. Let me try and address a few of these questions and myths.
     
    1. Compatibility -
     
    Whenever a new platform is released, Ryzen, X99, Athlon 64 etc there is always issues with ram support. This is (not recently) not due to the ram itself, its basically due to brand new chipset, brand new CPU and bios's and CPU instruction needing development and testing across the different multitudes of build configurations. 
    Ryzen is no different, when it released hardly anyone could get high ram speeds, this isn't due to bad ram etc, it's just the bios not mature enough and the instructions within the CPU not knowing how to deal with it. We are still at the point of Samsung B Die offering the best experience with Ryzen, but that is kinda expensive - for note, Samsung B die has pretty much 100% chance of being used in Ram kits of 3200mhz and CAS Latency of 14 and 3600mhz kits using CAS latency 16. Everything else is likely to be Hynix or another form of Samsung or Micron. 
    Ok, so here's whats happened (and will keep happening) AMD release new codes/microcodes which are CPU improvements to Motherboard manufacturers in the form Agesa updates. You usually hear about them before hand via AMD Community updates:
     
    https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/04/06/amd-ryzen-community-update-3     as an example
     
    Once the board makers receive these updates, they then make a new bios to implement those improvements, they are available normally as a Beta/test bios before appearing on boards official download pages - also take note that flagship boards will receive the beta bios's first and will then trickle down to the mid and low level boards.
     
    So why all this information? 
     
    The last 2 Agesa updates (1005 and 1006) have offered massive ram compatibility and speed improvements. The most recent, Agesa 1006 now offers us speed support of upto 4000mhz! That doesn't mean we can run 4000mhz yet, remember it is still early days. 
     
    So what is my point? Don't spend money on AMD Ryzen branded ram just because of compatibility concerns, pretty much all ram will work with Ryzen to some degree, what normally happens is it will default to 2133mhz until you play around with various settings. Also note that XMP is still hit and miss - it doesn't mean your ram isn't compatible, just means you need to configure it yourselt (more later)
     
    As requested I have added some shortcuts to help people find the QVL for their boards
     
    Asus 
     
    Crosshair 6 Extreme
     
    https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/ROG-CROSSHAIR-VI-EXTREME/HelpDesk_QVL/
     
    Crosshair 6 Hero
     
    https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/ROG-CROSSHAIR-VI-HERO/HelpDesk_QVL/
     
    X370  Prime Pro
     
    https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/PRIME-X370-PRO/HelpDesk_QVL/
     
    X370 RoG Strix F
     
    https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-X370-F-GAMING/HelpDesk_QVL/
     
    B350 Prime Plus
     
    https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/PRIME-B350-PLUS/HelpDesk_QVL/
     
     
    AsRock
     
    X370 Taichi
     
    http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X370 Taichi/index.us.asp#Memory
     
    X370 Fatality Gaming X
     
    http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty X370 Gaming X/index.us.asp#Memory
     
    X370 Fatality Gaming K4
     
    http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty X370 Gaming K4/index.us.asp#Memory
     
    X370 Killer SLI
     
    http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X370 Killer SLI/index.us.asp#Memory
     
    B350 Gaming K4
     
    http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty AB350 Gaming K4/index.us.asp#Memory
     
     
    Gigabyte
     
    X370 Gaming 5 Aorus
     
    http://uk.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AX370-Gaming-5-rev-10#support-doc
     
    X370 Gaming K7
     
    http://uk.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AX370-Gaming-K7-rev-10#support-doc
     
    X370 Gaming K5
     
    http://uk.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AX370-Gaming-K5-rev-10#support-doc
     
    AB350 Gaming 3
     
    http://uk.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AB350-Gaming-3-rev-10#support-doc
     
     
    MSI
     
    X370 X Power Gaming Titanium
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/X370-XPOWER-GAMING-TITANIUM.html#support-mem-2
     
    X370 Pro Carbon
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/X370-GAMING-PRO-CARBON.html#support-mem-2
     
    X370 Gaming Plus
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/X370-GAMING-PLUS.html#support-mem-2
     
    X370 SLI Krait Gaming
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/X370-KRAIT-GAMING.html#support-mem-2
     
    B350M Mortar Arctic
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B350M-MORTAR-ARCTIC.html#support-mem-2
     
    B350 Tomahawk Arctic
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B350-TOMAHAWK-ARCTIC.html#support-mem-2
     
    B350 Gaming Plus
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B350-GAMING-PLUS.html#support-mem-2
     
     
    That is most of the popular boards, it's pretty easy find your board from there if I haven't included it. If you feel your board is popular or you can't find the QVL, reply to this thread and I will update it with your board.
     
     
    Next, 
     
    2) Speed 
     
    Don't try and save $$$/£££ off your build here guys  - Ram speed is really important to Ryzen, especially in gaming. A little info here: Ryzen is basically 2 cores/cpus build on board (really basic terms here) and communicate to each other over something called "infinity fabric" This communication lane operates at exactly half of your ram speed, faster ram = lower Infinity Fabric latency = more performance.
     
    Want some figures? Today I ran RIse of the Tomb Raider benchmark at 1080P on my sig rig using both 2133mhz and 3333mhz ram speeds and here's the results:
     
    2133mhz
     

     
    3333mhz
     

     
    As you can see, that is over 30% improvement right there! 
     
    I can't get my ram to run any faster as it is using Hynix and is only rated for 3200mhz (for information - this ram is still not on the QVL for my board)
     
    TL/DR - BUY THE FASTEST RAM YOU CAN AFFORD - I would happily stick with the wraith cooler for a month or so if it meant the difference between 2400mhz ram + an AIO or Wraith + 3600mhz ram!!
     
     
    3) Ok I bought non QVL ram and it won't post above 2133mhz
     
    Don't panic!
     
    Take note of the timings of the ram from the sticks eg
     
    16-18-18-38-2T (could be 2CR or 2N)
     
    Ok so what you want to try and do is enter the timings manually, increase SOC voltage to 1.2v and DDR Voltage to 1.35v, manually set the next speed and reboot. If it works great, go back and do this again until you get to the point where it again fails to boot.
     
    Here you have 2 options:
     
    1) Stick with that speed. If it is equal to or better than what your ram is tested to aka 3000mhz ram and you got 3200mhz stable great! If it is below (which a lot of people are seeing) say 2666mhz or 2933mhz then you can either wait for more bios updates and try again or try a new beta bios or
     
    2) Play more with your ram! So I have my own example here:
     
    My ram fails XMP above 2933mhz for what ever reason. However by adding/changing some settings
     
    SOC V - 1.25v
    DDRV - 1.5V (this is over volting and is at your risk if you opt to do it)
    loosen my timings from 16-18-18-38-2T to 20-20-20-40-2T
     
    I'm now able to boot and run 3333mhz ram on my Trident Z RGB 3200mhz ram that isn't on the QVL for my board
     
     
    4) I need more than 16gb, does this affect my desired speed?
     
    Ok so now I given a basic understanding of the affects of ram speed and why it is important, lets talk about capacity, because at this time, it is directly related to the officially support ram speeds. Let me explain:
     
    Here is the list of officially support ram speeds from AMD - This is the fastest you can go with zero overclocking, cause yes, when you push the ram to a higher speed, it is still overclocking the CPU which as you know, depends on silicon lottery/binning and how much voltage you're willing to apply to the CPU
     
    DDR4 Speed (MT/s) Memory Ranks DIMM Quantities 2667 Single 2 2400 Dual 2 2133 Single 4 1866 Dual 4  
    So, as you can see, the best scenario at this time for the fastest ram is go with 2x single sided dims, aka 2x 8gb (although some 8gb sticks can be double sided, do your research) - this gives us our best shot at max speeds
     
    if you need 32gb, then it is best to go for 2x 16gb sticks rather than 4x 8gb as it applies less stress to the IMC (internal Memory Controller) of the CPU and will allow faster speeds as you can see above.
     
    Worst case scenario is 4x 16gb sticks (double sided dims) lowering the officially supported speed to 1866mhz 
     
    Remember this is prior to overclocking - You may get 4x 16gb sticks and be able to hit 2933mhz, above that is rarely heard of at this time.
     
     
     
    5) I bought the fastest ram I can afford and no matter what I do, it refuses to go any faster than X speed, even though its tested to 3600/4000 etc
     
    Ok so lets assume you did everything above from point 3) and your 3600mhz ram still refuses to boot above for example 3333mhz. Now this could be due to the platform needing more updates (agesa) or plain and simple, a CPU limitation. Overclocking ram (above 2666mhz) is still CPU overclocking. As we know all CPU's have a ceiling for overclocking and it may just be the case that your particular chip is not capable of running that ram. Which is unfortunate, this is just something to keep in mind with ram speed expectations.
     
     
    6) Ok smart arse, what ram do you recommend then for a more "pleasant" Ryzen experience?
     
    Firstly - Try and avoid 16gb Sticks like the plague and I would also avoid using all 4 dimms until more updates are released.
    As I have already said, go for the fastest ram you can afford. If you want to try and avoid as many of these problems as possible, then go for Samsung B Die, heres a list of RAM that is "Probably/high chance" aka not 100% guaranteed (LOL) to be Samsung B die:
     
    3200mhz
     
    https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#s=403200&Z=16384002&L=140
     
    3600mhz
     
    https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#Z=16384002&L=160&s=403600
     
    4000mhz
     
    https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#Z=16384002&L=160,190&s=404000
     
    There will be other Samsung B Kits out there, just do your research.
     
    7) Ram tuning
     
    AMD recently did some in house testing of different variables when choosing between different ram kits at 3200mhz and above - this included DR vs SR (double rank vs single rank), 1T vs 2T and various ram timings. It can be found here, please keep in mind that is at 3200mhz and above, is don't look to swap out frequency for latency at speeds less than that when buying your ram.
     
    https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/07/14/memory-oc-showdown-frequency-vs-memory-timings
     
    TLDR: SR, 1T CAS 14 3466mhz is the fastest on this test
     

     

     
    8) So, X399 is here, is anything different? What ram is best? Does Capacity affect the max speed?
     
    I will answer these questions as more information becomes available - keep in mind that the information I had for X370 was first hand as I have the platform and experience. X399 I will provide information from research as I think my wife would categorically castrate me if I swapped out my 3 month X370 system for an X399 rig!! 
     
    1) At this time I can't find any testing of Threadripper at different ram speeds. The only information that I have come across is Game Mode - Which basically disables half of the CPU cares to reduce ram latency. The problem is, not every game is latency sensitive, some prefer cores - so it seems to be a little hit and miss as when and when not to use it.
     

     
    http://www.pcworld.com/article/3214635/components-processors/ryzen-threadripper-review-we-test-amds-monster-cpu.html
     
    Hope this helps
     
    Stealth
     
     
  9. Like
    stealth80 got a reaction from iggybo in Pairing 3200MHz with 3000MHz - Vengeance LPX   
    Says who? Mines running 3200mhz right now, I get 3333mhz out it. That's an old mentality, new bios updates and knowledge on how to tweak the ram makes 3200mhz pretty simple to obtain. Check my memory guide.
     
    However, the difference between 3000 and 3200mhz is minimal, just be a shame to have paid for those 3200 dims to have them drop to 3000mhz. The big concern though, is how well Ryzen plays with 4x dims - its doesn't play nice 
  10. Agree
    stealth80 got a reaction from Lord Athetos in Should I just roll a dice??   
    What absolute nonsense. I cant speak for the last 18 months, but unless the OP has a library of indie games then I would say this is a massive exaggeration. The problem here then is that people come across these forums and read this and take it as face value, then they go away and spread it as genuine tech knowledge, when its wrong. 
    As I said I can't speak from November 16 onwards,  but out of my entire library of games (its not massive by any margin - 47 steam, 11 Uplay, 11 Origin and around 10 - 15 others) only Just Cause 3 and Quantum Break (shouldn't really mention it - was windows version, horrible messed up release, couldn't even use my Gsync) gave no SLI usage on my then 2x 970's - I ran 2 for around 20 months - sure only around half of triple A titles launched with a working profile, but they usually followed within a few weeks. 
     
    The problem with anything on the net, you only really hear about bad things or broken things, and it's almost always taken out of context and made out to be a widespread issue - How many iphones actually bent in peoples pockets? How many people actually experienced the stuttering caused by the 970's slower 0.5GB vram - It didn't stop performing the way it did on reviews and everyone bought it for that performance - all of a sudden its a massive problem and people are advising not to buy them - I had one 970 a year longer than I ran 2, and I never ever experienced this epidemic that people refer to.... go figure huh. When was the last time someone went on the net and said "hey guys, ive been using this hardware for over a year now and it performs exactly as I expected it to" - it doesn't happen, and that's why SLI has the rep it has - hell of course people are going to have had problems across a range of areas with it, but aren't PC's like that in general? 
     
    It aint perfect, but I liked having it, it felt niche and I never experienced "micro stutter", or any of the other issues everyone speaks of, however there is always one rule I would tell anyone - Don't buy 2 mid range cards from the off if you have the budget, get the best single card you can and keep the upgrade open for later if you get more funds - I see too many people configuring a new PC with 2x 1070's etc when we all know they should be getting a 1080ti (or waiting right now imo). If you only have the money for a 1070 get a 1070, then add one later if you have more money.
     
    @Tic-Tac I would hang fire on any new GPU purchase for now and wait a few months (potentially even 6 weeks if rumours are true) as Nvidia are due to announce new cards, I would wait until then - as for the PSU, I would go with the Corsair, the RMX are great, my HX lasted a good number of years
  11. Agree
    stealth80 reacted to Princess Luna in Need help choosing a graphics card for my new build   
    Personally speaking I would always go for the worse 1080 Ti before going to the best 1080.
  12. Informative
    stealth80 got a reaction from Tic-Tac in Should I just roll a dice??   
    What absolute nonsense. I cant speak for the last 18 months, but unless the OP has a library of indie games then I would say this is a massive exaggeration. The problem here then is that people come across these forums and read this and take it as face value, then they go away and spread it as genuine tech knowledge, when its wrong. 
    As I said I can't speak from November 16 onwards,  but out of my entire library of games (its not massive by any margin - 47 steam, 11 Uplay, 11 Origin and around 10 - 15 others) only Just Cause 3 and Quantum Break (shouldn't really mention it - was windows version, horrible messed up release, couldn't even use my Gsync) gave no SLI usage on my then 2x 970's - I ran 2 for around 20 months - sure only around half of triple A titles launched with a working profile, but they usually followed within a few weeks. 
     
    The problem with anything on the net, you only really hear about bad things or broken things, and it's almost always taken out of context and made out to be a widespread issue - How many iphones actually bent in peoples pockets? How many people actually experienced the stuttering caused by the 970's slower 0.5GB vram - It didn't stop performing the way it did on reviews and everyone bought it for that performance - all of a sudden its a massive problem and people are advising not to buy them - I had one 970 a year longer than I ran 2, and I never ever experienced this epidemic that people refer to.... go figure huh. When was the last time someone went on the net and said "hey guys, ive been using this hardware for over a year now and it performs exactly as I expected it to" - it doesn't happen, and that's why SLI has the rep it has - hell of course people are going to have had problems across a range of areas with it, but aren't PC's like that in general? 
     
    It aint perfect, but I liked having it, it felt niche and I never experienced "micro stutter", or any of the other issues everyone speaks of, however there is always one rule I would tell anyone - Don't buy 2 mid range cards from the off if you have the budget, get the best single card you can and keep the upgrade open for later if you get more funds - I see too many people configuring a new PC with 2x 1070's etc when we all know they should be getting a 1080ti (or waiting right now imo). If you only have the money for a 1070 get a 1070, then add one later if you have more money.
     
    @Tic-Tac I would hang fire on any new GPU purchase for now and wait a few months (potentially even 6 weeks if rumours are true) as Nvidia are due to announce new cards, I would wait until then - as for the PSU, I would go with the Corsair, the RMX are great, my HX lasted a good number of years
  13. Agree
    stealth80 reacted to Princess Luna in is this a scam or not?   
    sigh do you really need to ask? this processor costs 185£....
  14. Funny
    stealth80 got a reaction from HOOTSMON in GPU for 144Hz 1440p monitor   
    OP didn't say that, he asked what would be required for it, OP has a 1440P Gsync, like me (not quite you) and as we both know, you need a card to run games at 144FPS to get the best from a 144hz Gsync monitor. 75 FPS on Gsync is perfectly smooth so a 1080 is still a great card for 1440P - yes 1080ti is even better, but as my previous reason..
     
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-turing-faq,37067.html
  15. Funny
    stealth80 got a reaction from HOOTSMON in GPU for 144Hz 1440p monitor   
    Just because it can do 144hz doesn't mean it has to, that's the whole point in Gsync. My 1080 on a 144hz gsync is perfectly, however with that said …..
     
    Right now just sit on it and wait on new cards, it wouldn't be a little short sighted to spend $800 2 months before more powerful cards arrive
  16. Agree
    stealth80 reacted to Crazycatman in Monitor around $200   
    Pixels Per Inch. The higher the better the quality in pictures.
  17. Agree
    stealth80 got a reaction from Mr.Humble in Monitor around $200   
    I'd be tempted by one of these as you say you want image quality - I don't know your GPU, but a 1440P at 24" would give a good sharp image, all 4 are IPS
     
    https://pcpartpicker.com/products/monitor/#X=0,23229&p=1&l=1&sort=-price&W=2300,2950&T=1,5&r=256001440
  18. Informative
    stealth80 got a reaction from mintesh in 2700x and ram frequency   
    see my guide in my signature
  19. Agree
    stealth80 reacted to STRESSMASTER in Where the HELL is PB/XFR on the Asus b350f motherboard????   
    if you reset or clear the cmos/bios it will be enabled for sure. The option is only there so you can disable it should that need arise which in your case will not be happening.
  20. Funny
    stealth80 reacted to Frankenburger in When should expect the gtx 1180 to or 2000 series cards to come out   
    I have said this twice before. Now, I'll say it a third time. Hopefully it'll sink in this time around.
     
    Titan V is not meant for gaming.
     
    There's no reason to believe the GPU clocks, memory clocks, and the CUDA core count of the Titan V will be representative of the GTX1180, much less the next gen GTX Titan. The function of the Titan V is for deep learning, not real time rendering. There's a very real possibility that Nvidia will up the clock speeds and up the CUDA count with the GTX1180 when compared to the Titan V.
  21. Agree
    stealth80 reacted to knightslugger in Is gtx 1060 3gb ok?   
    Ok, so your CPU can keep up with the GPU.
     
    that's not what he's talking about.
     
    each frame is drawn by the CPU. the cpu then sends the frame to the GPU, which then fills the frame with textures.
     
    If those textures are complex, it will will take the GPU longer to render it. The CPU doesn't really care how heavy the textures are. All it does is draw the frame. Future games will have ever increasing complexity of texture maps. You may find a time where your 1060 cannot keep up and you will have to lower the texture detail to be satisfied.
  22. Agree
    stealth80 got a reaction from XenosTech in Is this forum as pro-intel anti-AMD as tom's hardware ?   
    Any real PC enthusiast will provide an honest answer to VS thread, pointing out the strong and weak points of all camps. They should also (depending on age) of had gpu/cpus from all camps getting the best bang for buck that they can. For example, my first PC (i had a laptop previous) was an Intel Pentium with an Nvidia 5200 Ultra, really slow but cheap. Over the years I sort of went
     
    Athlon 64 + ATI 9800 pro (flashed to XT)
    Athlon 64 X2 +Nvidia 6800 (flashed to GT)
    Pentium Dual Core + ATI X1900XT (wouldn't flash to XTX)
     
    Then I got more serious around 2009, id bought a lot of used part up til this point
     
    Intel i7 860 + AMD 5870
    Intel 3770K + Nvidia 670 GTX (killed a memory channel delidding)
    Intel 4790k + AMD 280X Vapor X > Nvidia 970 > 970 SLI > Nvidia 1080
    Ryzen 7 1700 + Nvidia 1080
     
    Sort of locked into Nvidia now due to Gsync - but that's fine right now as since that 280X they have offered the best performance at my purchase point/price
     
    I have never got Fan Boys  its not like the brand is loyal to you ...  I feel I always give an honest view point, right now gaming + high refresh 8700k, if streaming or any editing go with Ryzen if viewer side stream FPS is important. People will add other things such as software compatibility etc which is fair enough, but there has been those in the past that just won't accept a camp is better than the other camp for certain scenarios 
     
     
  23. Agree
    stealth80 got a reaction from TVwazhere in Case with support for three fans on front and top   
    Lian Li PC-11 Dynamic
  24. Informative
    stealth80 got a reaction from PLME888 in Buying Ryzen? Confused about ram? Read here   
    Hi, I guess many people (like me) are now moving to Ryzen builds and why not. As part of this I have noticed quite a LOT of questions regarding ram, what type, how fast and compatibility. Let me try and address a few of these questions and myths.
     
    1. Compatibility -
     
    Whenever a new platform is released, Ryzen, X99, Athlon 64 etc there is always issues with ram support. This is (not recently) not due to the ram itself, its basically due to brand new chipset, brand new CPU and bios's and CPU instruction needing development and testing across the different multitudes of build configurations. 
    Ryzen is no different, when it released hardly anyone could get high ram speeds, this isn't due to bad ram etc, it's just the bios not mature enough and the instructions within the CPU not knowing how to deal with it. We are still at the point of Samsung B Die offering the best experience with Ryzen, but that is kinda expensive - for note, Samsung B die has pretty much 100% chance of being used in Ram kits of 3200mhz and CAS Latency of 14 and 3600mhz kits using CAS latency 16. Everything else is likely to be Hynix or another form of Samsung or Micron. 
    Ok, so here's whats happened (and will keep happening) AMD release new codes/microcodes which are CPU improvements to Motherboard manufacturers in the form Agesa updates. You usually hear about them before hand via AMD Community updates:
     
    https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/04/06/amd-ryzen-community-update-3     as an example
     
    Once the board makers receive these updates, they then make a new bios to implement those improvements, they are available normally as a Beta/test bios before appearing on boards official download pages - also take note that flagship boards will receive the beta bios's first and will then trickle down to the mid and low level boards.
     
    So why all this information? 
     
    The last 2 Agesa updates (1005 and 1006) have offered massive ram compatibility and speed improvements. The most recent, Agesa 1006 now offers us speed support of upto 4000mhz! That doesn't mean we can run 4000mhz yet, remember it is still early days. 
     
    So what is my point? Don't spend money on AMD Ryzen branded ram just because of compatibility concerns, pretty much all ram will work with Ryzen to some degree, what normally happens is it will default to 2133mhz until you play around with various settings. Also note that XMP is still hit and miss - it doesn't mean your ram isn't compatible, just means you need to configure it yourselt (more later)
     
    As requested I have added some shortcuts to help people find the QVL for their boards
     
    Asus 
     
    Crosshair 6 Extreme
     
    https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/ROG-CROSSHAIR-VI-EXTREME/HelpDesk_QVL/
     
    Crosshair 6 Hero
     
    https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/ROG-CROSSHAIR-VI-HERO/HelpDesk_QVL/
     
    X370  Prime Pro
     
    https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/PRIME-X370-PRO/HelpDesk_QVL/
     
    X370 RoG Strix F
     
    https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-X370-F-GAMING/HelpDesk_QVL/
     
    B350 Prime Plus
     
    https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/PRIME-B350-PLUS/HelpDesk_QVL/
     
     
    AsRock
     
    X370 Taichi
     
    http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X370 Taichi/index.us.asp#Memory
     
    X370 Fatality Gaming X
     
    http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty X370 Gaming X/index.us.asp#Memory
     
    X370 Fatality Gaming K4
     
    http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty X370 Gaming K4/index.us.asp#Memory
     
    X370 Killer SLI
     
    http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X370 Killer SLI/index.us.asp#Memory
     
    B350 Gaming K4
     
    http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty AB350 Gaming K4/index.us.asp#Memory
     
     
    Gigabyte
     
    X370 Gaming 5 Aorus
     
    http://uk.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AX370-Gaming-5-rev-10#support-doc
     
    X370 Gaming K7
     
    http://uk.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AX370-Gaming-K7-rev-10#support-doc
     
    X370 Gaming K5
     
    http://uk.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AX370-Gaming-K5-rev-10#support-doc
     
    AB350 Gaming 3
     
    http://uk.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AB350-Gaming-3-rev-10#support-doc
     
     
    MSI
     
    X370 X Power Gaming Titanium
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/X370-XPOWER-GAMING-TITANIUM.html#support-mem-2
     
    X370 Pro Carbon
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/X370-GAMING-PRO-CARBON.html#support-mem-2
     
    X370 Gaming Plus
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/X370-GAMING-PLUS.html#support-mem-2
     
    X370 SLI Krait Gaming
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/X370-KRAIT-GAMING.html#support-mem-2
     
    B350M Mortar Arctic
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B350M-MORTAR-ARCTIC.html#support-mem-2
     
    B350 Tomahawk Arctic
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B350-TOMAHAWK-ARCTIC.html#support-mem-2
     
    B350 Gaming Plus
     
    https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B350-GAMING-PLUS.html#support-mem-2
     
     
    That is most of the popular boards, it's pretty easy find your board from there if I haven't included it. If you feel your board is popular or you can't find the QVL, reply to this thread and I will update it with your board.
     
     
    Next, 
     
    2) Speed 
     
    Don't try and save $$$/£££ off your build here guys  - Ram speed is really important to Ryzen, especially in gaming. A little info here: Ryzen is basically 2 cores/cpus build on board (really basic terms here) and communicate to each other over something called "infinity fabric" This communication lane operates at exactly half of your ram speed, faster ram = lower Infinity Fabric latency = more performance.
     
    Want some figures? Today I ran RIse of the Tomb Raider benchmark at 1080P on my sig rig using both 2133mhz and 3333mhz ram speeds and here's the results:
     
    2133mhz
     

     
    3333mhz
     

     
    As you can see, that is over 30% improvement right there! 
     
    I can't get my ram to run any faster as it is using Hynix and is only rated for 3200mhz (for information - this ram is still not on the QVL for my board)
     
    TL/DR - BUY THE FASTEST RAM YOU CAN AFFORD - I would happily stick with the wraith cooler for a month or so if it meant the difference between 2400mhz ram + an AIO or Wraith + 3600mhz ram!!
     
     
    3) Ok I bought non QVL ram and it won't post above 2133mhz
     
    Don't panic!
     
    Take note of the timings of the ram from the sticks eg
     
    16-18-18-38-2T (could be 2CR or 2N)
     
    Ok so what you want to try and do is enter the timings manually, increase SOC voltage to 1.2v and DDR Voltage to 1.35v, manually set the next speed and reboot. If it works great, go back and do this again until you get to the point where it again fails to boot.
     
    Here you have 2 options:
     
    1) Stick with that speed. If it is equal to or better than what your ram is tested to aka 3000mhz ram and you got 3200mhz stable great! If it is below (which a lot of people are seeing) say 2666mhz or 2933mhz then you can either wait for more bios updates and try again or try a new beta bios or
     
    2) Play more with your ram! So I have my own example here:
     
    My ram fails XMP above 2933mhz for what ever reason. However by adding/changing some settings
     
    SOC V - 1.25v
    DDRV - 1.5V (this is over volting and is at your risk if you opt to do it)
    loosen my timings from 16-18-18-38-2T to 20-20-20-40-2T
     
    I'm now able to boot and run 3333mhz ram on my Trident Z RGB 3200mhz ram that isn't on the QVL for my board
     
     
    4) I need more than 16gb, does this affect my desired speed?
     
    Ok so now I given a basic understanding of the affects of ram speed and why it is important, lets talk about capacity, because at this time, it is directly related to the officially support ram speeds. Let me explain:
     
    Here is the list of officially support ram speeds from AMD - This is the fastest you can go with zero overclocking, cause yes, when you push the ram to a higher speed, it is still overclocking the CPU which as you know, depends on silicon lottery/binning and how much voltage you're willing to apply to the CPU
     
    DDR4 Speed (MT/s) Memory Ranks DIMM Quantities 2667 Single 2 2400 Dual 2 2133 Single 4 1866 Dual 4  
    So, as you can see, the best scenario at this time for the fastest ram is go with 2x single sided dims, aka 2x 8gb (although some 8gb sticks can be double sided, do your research) - this gives us our best shot at max speeds
     
    if you need 32gb, then it is best to go for 2x 16gb sticks rather than 4x 8gb as it applies less stress to the IMC (internal Memory Controller) of the CPU and will allow faster speeds as you can see above.
     
    Worst case scenario is 4x 16gb sticks (double sided dims) lowering the officially supported speed to 1866mhz 
     
    Remember this is prior to overclocking - You may get 4x 16gb sticks and be able to hit 2933mhz, above that is rarely heard of at this time.
     
     
     
    5) I bought the fastest ram I can afford and no matter what I do, it refuses to go any faster than X speed, even though its tested to 3600/4000 etc
     
    Ok so lets assume you did everything above from point 3) and your 3600mhz ram still refuses to boot above for example 3333mhz. Now this could be due to the platform needing more updates (agesa) or plain and simple, a CPU limitation. Overclocking ram (above 2666mhz) is still CPU overclocking. As we know all CPU's have a ceiling for overclocking and it may just be the case that your particular chip is not capable of running that ram. Which is unfortunate, this is just something to keep in mind with ram speed expectations.
     
     
    6) Ok smart arse, what ram do you recommend then for a more "pleasant" Ryzen experience?
     
    Firstly - Try and avoid 16gb Sticks like the plague and I would also avoid using all 4 dimms until more updates are released.
    As I have already said, go for the fastest ram you can afford. If you want to try and avoid as many of these problems as possible, then go for Samsung B Die, heres a list of RAM that is "Probably/high chance" aka not 100% guaranteed (LOL) to be Samsung B die:
     
    3200mhz
     
    https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#s=403200&Z=16384002&L=140
     
    3600mhz
     
    https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#Z=16384002&L=160&s=403600
     
    4000mhz
     
    https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#Z=16384002&L=160,190&s=404000
     
    There will be other Samsung B Kits out there, just do your research.
     
    7) Ram tuning
     
    AMD recently did some in house testing of different variables when choosing between different ram kits at 3200mhz and above - this included DR vs SR (double rank vs single rank), 1T vs 2T and various ram timings. It can be found here, please keep in mind that is at 3200mhz and above, is don't look to swap out frequency for latency at speeds less than that when buying your ram.
     
    https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/07/14/memory-oc-showdown-frequency-vs-memory-timings
     
    TLDR: SR, 1T CAS 14 3466mhz is the fastest on this test
     

     

     
    8) So, X399 is here, is anything different? What ram is best? Does Capacity affect the max speed?
     
    I will answer these questions as more information becomes available - keep in mind that the information I had for X370 was first hand as I have the platform and experience. X399 I will provide information from research as I think my wife would categorically castrate me if I swapped out my 3 month X370 system for an X399 rig!! 
     
    1) At this time I can't find any testing of Threadripper at different ram speeds. The only information that I have come across is Game Mode - Which basically disables half of the CPU cares to reduce ram latency. The problem is, not every game is latency sensitive, some prefer cores - so it seems to be a little hit and miss as when and when not to use it.
     

     
    http://www.pcworld.com/article/3214635/components-processors/ryzen-threadripper-review-we-test-amds-monster-cpu.html
     
    Hope this helps
     
    Stealth
     
     
  25. Like
    stealth80 got a reaction from M300843499 in Are Ryzen CPU's bottlenecking high end GPU's?   
    It is do-able, I picked that rig out for him/her
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