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Tech Jesus reviews the Walmart gaming PC, how do you think it went? (Hint: it's really bad)

Master Disaster

overpowered huh? more like overpriced

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On 11/25/2018 at 4:35 PM, demonix00 said:

I just have to wonder how many of these "overpowered" PCs will be functioning in a year or so time considering that they used a no name PSU with dubious certifications

which is more then likely to go nuclear taking several components with it.

The complete opposite is true. Yes, being cheap and buying a shitty PSU is a horrible way to save money as a bad PSU can certainly kill everything if things go wrong. But the fact of the matter is that more often than not, things don't go wrong. Otherwise OEMs across the board would have stopped using garbage as the cost of RMAs would far outweigh any upfront part savings.

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11 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

update: Kyle's review quick look of the Walmart PC DTW1 is out. Definitely open the PC and check all the plugs ._.

 

I dunno if it is because the PSU is garbage but that is some terrible QA to have a loose plug out of the box, maybe the hot glue should have been used on the PCI-e plug. xD

 

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It looks like they already reduced the price on the "High End" model.  Unless this is just a black friday/cyber monday price.

 

image.png.ebdb304050b2106d20461293c4db28ef.png

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3 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Not mine, all credit to Steve from GN

Well I give you the credit for putting it all together like this nonetheless.

 

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I did a little digging for information about Great Wall, and to my surprise found a fairly positive - albeit 8 years old - review for one (under the Sparkle Computer brand, not to be confused with Sparkle Power) by Johnny Guru.  Apart from a few minor gripes - like high-pitched whine at high voltages and the fan controller functions not working properly - he gave it a solid 9/10.

 

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&amp;op=Story&amp;reid=212

 

I still wouldn't trust one in my computer, though.

2 hours ago, Slayerking92 said:

It looks like they already reduced the price on the "High End" model.  Unless this is just a black friday/cyber monday price.

Steve should call them up and demand a refund of the difference, since they did screw up and sent him the wrong model.

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10 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Steve should call them up and demand a refund of the difference, since they did screw up and sent him the wrong model. 

Yeah, I think he should. I don't think he would want to do a video on the 1080 system, what else is there to say? It's really not good publicity for Walmart, but I'd argue that the venn diagram for people who want to buy a Walmart prebuilt and who watch Gamers Nexus is relatively small. I feel like most people who watch Gamers Nexus would either build their own PC or buy from reputable SI.

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Oh look, I practically replicated the Walmart build (and it's quality) and found they're effectively charging a 50% markup. Unfortunately I couldn't find a rear io usb c port panel (with only one usb c port), so I figured wholesale purchasing would make this close to the actual cost for Walmart to buy the components (since OS can probably be purchased for cheap in bulk).

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8 hours ago, 79wjd said:

The complete opposite is true. Yes, being cheap and buying a shitty PSU is a horrible way to save money as a bad PSU can certainly kill everything if things go wrong. But the fact of the matter is that more often than not, things don't go wrong. Otherwise OEMs across the board would have stopped using garbage as the cost of RMAs would far outweigh any upfront part savings.

 

Many OEM companies don't offer multi-year warranties on the systems. So the RMA cost is zero, it only has to last till the warranty runs out, which is allways going to be far less time than what anyone outside the enthusiast market will be replacing it in.

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5 hours ago, CarlBar said:

 

Many OEM companies don't offer multi-year warranties on the systems. So the RMA cost is zero, it only has to last till the warranty runs out, which is allways going to be far less time than what anyone outside the enthusiast market will be replacing it in.

Most/all also offer a buy up warranty that's 3-4 years. That's not even considering the fact that your computer dying on you in a couple years isn't good for their future sales either. Bottom line is that if bad PSUs were really such a problem then they wouldn't be used, but they are, because in reality they are fine more often than not.

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I watched this video for a minute in the beginning because of the dudes hair, then I fast worded to a little more then half way. He acted like it was all on purpose, like Walmart or its distributor was were trying to be sneaky about it all.

I don't think long haired dude realizes that its quite common for different items to be shipped then what was ordered, because the minimum wage dude in the warehouse doesnt give a rats ass. Add to that, depending on the day of the week and the time of day the package is being picked and shipped, could be  just that the minimum wage worker was hung over on Monday morning, or maybe it was Friday and an hour or so away from end of shift. Or a half hour away from end of shift on any work day.

 

Also, people buying from Walmart dont know any better!

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I don't think this matters to literally anyone outside of the tech enthusiast bubble we are currently in. Most people who walk into Walmart to buy a PC probably think the CPU is the PC much less the complete lack of knowledge from the people selling them. Walmart will sell them and depending on how well their marketing team does might actually threaten the sustainability of computer building companies and no I'm not joking. A ton more people know about Walmart than they do about boutique computer building companies much less knowing how to build their own or even do research on it.

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7 hours ago, 79wjd said:

Most/all also offer a buy up warranty that's 3-4 years. That's not even considering the fact that your computer dying on you in a couple years isn't good for their future sales either. Bottom line is that if bad PSUs were really such a problem then they wouldn't be used, but they are, because in reality they are fine more often than not.

 

Guess it depends where you are but every system anyone i know who's bought off the shelf hasn't got that kind of warranty. Also what are consumers going to do if they're not happy over their PC's dying? If everyone's using cheap PSU and the consumer doesn't even know why it's dying they don't have any alternatives.

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3 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

Guess it depends where you are but every system anyone i know who's bought off the shelf hasn't got that kind of warranty. Also what are consumers going to do if they're not happy over their PC's dying? If everyone's using cheap PSU and the consumer doesn't even know why it's dying they don't have any alternatives.

If I spend $2000 on something and it suddenly dies within a year and I have no idea why it died, then I can assure you, I wouldn't touch any of that company's products with a ten foot pole. Most consumers, being tech illiterate, will just assume the company makes garbage as a whole. Generally that's really bad for business -- who strive for repeat customers.

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3 hours ago, Canada EH said:

I watched this video for a minute in the beginning because of the dudes hair, then I fast worded to a little more then half way. He acted like it was all on purpose, like Walmart or its distributor was were trying to be sneaky about it all.

I don't think long haired dude realizes that its quite common for different items to be shipped then what was ordered, because the minimum wage dude in the warehouse doesnt give a rats ass. Add to that, depending on the day of the week and the time of day the package is being picked and shipped, could be  just that the minimum wage worker was hung over on Monday morning, or maybe it was Friday and an hour or so away from end of shift. Or a half hour away from end of shift on any work day.

 

Also, people buying from Walmart dont know any better!

Yeah that is something I've noticed about Steve as well. He assumes everyone is at his knowledge of computer hardware and components and if they're not then it's immediately a flawed product. He just looks at the product itself without taking in to account everything else that's involved with getting the product to his building. I still really enjoy his content though, it's not really a flaw but just something interesting I noticed too.

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1 hour ago, 79wjd said:

If I spend $2000 on something and it suddenly dies within a year and I have no idea why it died, then I can assure you, I wouldn't touch any of that company's products with a ten foot pole. Most consumers, being tech illiterate, will just assume the company makes garbage as a whole. Generally that's really bad for business -- who strive for repeat customers.

 

Which is precisely my point, but thats 2+ years down the road from when the customer buys it. Repeat customers work when your either dealing in somthing that requires ongoing support, or an item that needs to be bought pretty reguarly. Weather or not someone's going to come back to a specific company almost doesn't matter to them because the customer 2 years ago isn't what's keeping the company afloat now. It's whoever's buying now, and weather they're not buying because their PC didn't die or because they don't want to go back to a crappy company the result either way will be exactly the same for the seller.

 

And where not saying "oh it'll crap out in a few years" based of personal opinion, but based off teardowns of the PSU by knowledgeable reviewers that have shown they're that bad. Many budget units only have a 1 year warranty from the manufacturer.

 

Whilst it's 4 years old, (JG doesn't get a lot of crap units sent his way to test after all), here's an example of a PSU that was being sold shortly after  i built my last system: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&amp;op=Story&amp;reid=379.

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24 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

Which is precisely my point, but thats 2+ years down the road from when the customer buys it. Repeat customers work when your either dealing in somthing that requires ongoing support, or an item that needs to be bought pretty reguarly. Weather or not someone's going to come back to a specific company almost doesn't matter to them because the customer 2 years ago isn't what's keeping the company afloat now. It's whoever's buying now, and weather they're not buying because their PC didn't die or because they don't want to go back to a crappy company the result either way will be exactly the same for the seller.

You can't possibly be serious..... Companies absolutely care about repeat customers. The customer who bought something two years ago is absolutely an important target audience. 

Quote

And where not saying "oh it'll crap out in a few years" based of personal opinion, but based off teardowns of the PSU by knowledgeable reviewers that have shown they're that bad. Many budget units only have a 1 year warranty from the manufacturer.

 

Whilst it's 4 years old, (JG doesn't get a lot of crap units sent his way to test after all), here's an example of a PSU that was being sold shortly after  i built my last system: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&amp;op=Story&amp;reid=379.

I understand it's a low quality unit and shouldn't be bought as it is far more likely to cause problems than a higher quality unit, but please, do find me even a shred of evidence that shows a high failure rate. Companies absolutely care about repeat customers, and if the failure rates were so high then companies would either get killed in RMA costs, bad PR, or loss of future customers. The only time selling complete garbage and not caring about the results is if you're so cheap that people are willing to gamble on you -- and that's simply not going to be the case with a $2000 system. 

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19 hours ago, ATFink said:

Oh look, I practically replicated the Walmart build (and it's quality) and found they're effectively charging a 50% markup. Unfortunately I couldn't find a rear io usb c port panel (with only one usb c port), so I figured wholesale purchasing would make this close to the actual cost for Walmart to buy the components (since OS can probably be purchased for cheap in bulk).

It'll actually be more than 50% because they will attain better prebuilt prices en mass from china.   Suffice to say that sounds about right, if their markup is too low they run the gauntlet of going broke.  I know it sounds weird that a markup at 50% is necessary (even normal) but if we look at all the successful companies out there at the moment, nearly all their products have such a markup.

 

30 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

Which is precisely my point, but thats 2+ years down the road from when the customer buys it. Repeat customers work when your either dealing in somthing that requires ongoing support, or an item that needs to be bought pretty reguarly. Weather or not someone's going to come back to a specific company almost doesn't matter to them because the customer 2 years ago isn't what's keeping the company afloat now. It's whoever's buying now, and weather they're not buying because their PC didn't die or because they don't want to go back to a crappy company the result either way will be exactly the same for the seller.

 

And where not saying "oh it'll crap out in a few years" based of personal opinion, but based off teardowns of the PSU by knowledgeable reviewers that have shown they're that bad. Many budget units only have a 1 year warranty from the manufacturer.

 

Whilst it's 4 years old, (JG doesn't get a lot of crap units sent his way to test after all), here's an example of a PSU that was being sold shortly after  i built my last system: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&amp;op=Story&amp;reid=379.

Companies care about repeat customers a lot.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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18 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

You can't possibly be serious..... Companies absolutely care about repeat customers. The customer who bought something two years ago is absolutely an important target audience.

 

Companies care about repeat customers when repeat customers make them money. You don't make money on customers that don't come back. And weather they don;t come back because they think your garbage or because your system hasn't died doesn't matter. Your not coming back, your not going to be a repeat customer for them.

 

Repeat customers are valuable because they keep coming back and buying stuff providing a steady revenue stream. Customers who don;t come back for over 5, or 7 or 10 years because you built the system with quality parts that will last that long aren;t providing any steady income.

 

Remember most PC users aren't gamers and they aren;t productivity types. if it can run office and a web browser they've got everything they'll ver need. Many people could get by perfectly fine on an old Pentium 4 system running windows XP. Thats really why the whole tablet and smartphone revolution has happened. Your average user can get by entirely on something with far less capability than even the most budget desktop. It's why second hand PC retailers have been popular for well over a decade. Your average user isn't going to replace a system until somthing on the software or hardware side breaks down. So giving them a system thats going to last half a decade or more dosen;t benefit the company in any way. It's dosen;t matter why they don;t come back in that 5 year period, only that they don't do so. And if they build the system to last 5 years thats 5 years without any repeat business at extra cost to build compared to cheaping out.

 

As for proof. 1 year warranties. You don;t stick a 1 year warranty on something that will happily last way more than that unless you expect enough failures to make it non-profitable or you expect the user to replace it inside that time frame. Plus like i said do some reading on cheap PSU's. JG doesn't get a lot of budget PSU's sent to him because nearly every single one dies during his tests and PSU companies don't want the bad press. But when he does, guess what happens. Oh yeah it usually dies. The fact that they don't want to send him these budget PSU's because they die should tell you what their quality is like.

 

Now your probably going to point out no one's buying these walmart PC's just to browse the web and stuff. And your right. But this is a classic case of applying budget principles to a high end product with inevitable results, thats not unique to PC sales.

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14 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

Companies care about repeat customers when repeat customers make them money. You don't make money on customers that don't come back. And weather they don;t come back because they think your garbage or because your system hasn't died doesn't matter. Your not coming back, your not going to be a repeat customer for them.

 

Repeat customers are valuable because they keep coming back and buying stuff providing a steady revenue stream. Customers who don;t come back for over 5, or 7 or 10 years because you built the system with quality parts that will last that long aren;t providing any steady income.

 

Remember most PC users aren't gamers and they aren;t productivity types. if it can run office and a web browser they've got everything they'll ver need. Many people could get by perfectly fine on an old Pentium 4 system running windows XP. Thats really why the whole tablet and smartphone revolution has happened. Your average user can get by entirely on something with far less capability than even the most budget desktop. It's why second hand PC retailers have been popular for well over a decade. Your average user isn't going to replace a system until somthing on the software or hardware side breaks down. So giving them a system thats going to last half a decade or more dosen;t benefit the company in any way. It's dosen;t matter why they don;t come back in that 5 year period, only that they don't do so. And if they build the system to last 5 years thats 5 years without any repeat business at extra cost to build compared to cheaping out.

But repeat customers are a steady source of income....Not everyone buys a product at the same time -- purchases are staggered. It's not like everyone goes out and buys a computer today and no one buys a computer for five years. Those people who are buying computers are distributed across many years such that there is always a steady stream of people buying with pockets of higher concentrations based on tech advancements. There aren't an infinite number of customers. 

Quote

As for proof. 1 year warranties. You don;t stick a 1 year warranty on something that will happily last way more than that unless you expect enough failures to make it non-profitable or you expect the user to replace it inside that time frame. 

Most smartphones have a one year warranty, yet the average upgrade period is something like three years, and most phones will easily last five. 

 

Most TVs have a one year warranty and yet people certainly don't replace TVs anywhere near that frequently. TV replacement rates are probably in the neighborhood of a five to ten years. Far longer than the one year warranty. 

 

The same applies to laptops, consoles, or pretty much anything technology as well. 

 

So no. That's complete nonsense on so many levels. 

Quote

Plus like i said do some reading on cheap PSU's.

I have, as well as having experience in enterprise environments working with shitty OEM PCs that all hold up just fine even with their 'garbage' PSUs. Not to mention the personal experience I have with past computers/friends computers. 

Quote

because nearly every single one dies during his tests and PSU companies don't want the bad press.

Citation needed. 

 

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29 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

Citation needed. 

 

Read the article i linked earlier, he explicitly says they stopped sending him PSU's because of all the failures he got.

 

29 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

But repeat customers are a steady source of income....Not everyone buys a product at the same time -- purchases are staggered. It's not like everyone goes out and buys a computer today and no one buys a computer for five years. Those people who are buying computers are distributed across many years such that there is always a steady stream of people buying with pockets of higher concentrations based on tech advancements. There aren't an infinite number of customers. 

 

No but the point i'm really getting at is the customer generally needs a reason to come back. Giving them a system at extra cost to you that will last 5 years plus doesn't benefit the company because it delays when they'll re-buy and costs more.At the end of the day there's going to eb a point where upping the build quality costs more than it helps. There's also a strogn element of the windows effect (for lack fo a better name), to things,. Yes widnows is crap in a lot of ways, but unless your willing to run the hassle of handling Linux yourself there's no real alternative. if all the OEM's are doing this, (and hey are), it dosen;t really matter, you don't have any good options. People will just bioounce from OEm to OEM.

 

 

As for your personal anecdote. You'll note i didn't offer any. I worked at a computer recycling place a while back and we got a lot of systems from schools and councils in the 3-5 years range and found plenty of dead or very marginal performance hardware in the process.

 

No one's saying every single system is going to fall over and die just a couple of years in. Where saying there will be enough of a failure rate to be a non-insignificant failure rate after that long with a cheap PSU. And of those only a percentage will get their hard drives fried i might add. It's going to hurt them. But not bad enough that it's going to be outright fatal. But it does mean they've little hope of getting business from the more informed. Which given thats not walmarts market makes sense but is very much a case of maxamising profit in one area at the expense of another.

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3 hours ago, ZacoAttaco said:

Steve

Is that his name, yeah well another sell out creating drama I guess. More drama = more money!

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1 minute ago, Canada EH said:

Is that his name, yeah well another sell out creating drama I guess. More drama = more money!

Yeah, Steve Burke, and I don't know, that's debatable. He did cover the Principled Technology bogus Intel benchmarks quite a lot, but then people gave Linus a hard time because he didn't think it was a big deal on the WAN Show so I don't know. I think his core audience really like his coverage.

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8 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

Read the article i linked earlier, he explicitly says they stopped sending him PSU's because of all the failures he got.

There is a VERY big difference between failing a test and dying. 

1 hour ago, CarlBar said:

because nearly every single one dies during his tests

 

 

Quote

 

No but the point i'm really getting at is the customer generally needs a reason to come back. Giving them a system at extra cost to you that will last 5 years plus doesn't benefit the company because it delays when they'll re-buy and costs more.At the end of the day there's going to eb a point where upping the build quality costs more than it helps. There's also a strogn element of the windows effect (for lack fo a better name), to things,. Yes widnows is crap in a lot of ways, but unless your willing to run the hassle of handling Linux yourself there's no real alternative. if all the OEM's are doing this, (and hey are), it dosen;t really matter, you don't have any good options. People will just bioounce from OEm to OEM.

Yes, I agree fully. There is absolutely a point of diminishing returns where adding more to the cost isn't going to entice a buyer to come back.....a $2000 PC dying in a year or two is absolutely going to do nothing but drive the customer away -- an extra $10 for a better PSU would net a company more money -- assuming these budget units had the dismal death rate you seem believe they do, which they so clearly don't. 

 

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2 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

There is a VERY big difference between failing a test and dying. 

 

All he does is put them under rated load under room temperature and simulated hot case conditions for around a half hour each. Unless OEM's are severely overspeccing the units they will see those loads for much more sustained periods in normal use.. Basically if they fail on the bench they will fail during use as soon as anything happens to push them to their rated output. SOme of the worst units he's done won't even hit close to their rated spec before dying. he one i linked earlier when he dug into it was actually a 400w unit being resold as a 500w unit and it predictably failed when asked to deliver 500w.

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