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branfrd

Dell and HP spotted advertising Optane memory as RAM

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19 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

So what next, netbooks with eMMC instead of hard drives also included in the "memory"?

Not only that, they will also start marketing "Expandable memory!" when the PC has a memory card reader. ?

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Basically False Advertising. 

 

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13 hours ago, branfrd said:

I've been meaning to post about this earlier, and I didn't see where anyone else had posted about this. Having sold a ton of computers, I can tell you that customers were very confused when I told them that the computers didn't actually have 24 GB's of RAM.

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/271543-pc-oems-are-selling-laptops-with-optane-cache-drives-and-claiming-its-memory

 

Here is an example:

https://www.staples.com/hp-pavilion-desktop-590-p0086-intel-i7-1tb-hdd-24gb-ram-windows-10/product_24341094

IMG_20180715_151631.jpg

next version will come with bluray drive with a disk in it of 50 gb ROM

 

74 gb Memory total... AMAZING

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Optane is used as cache to speed up HDD, or are straight up SSDs ... why are people here saying it's ok to add that to RAM???

 

This is like adding the 8GB of cache from the SSHD in your system to your RAM, how does that make any sense????? It's storage, don't people know the difference??

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I think dell and hp knows it's misleading, and their trying to find a word the average joe and jane would understand. But in the end they gave up, and just slapped the word "memory", hoping they won't find out. It's the consumers own fault for not understanding the difference between memory, storage, and cache drives.

 

 


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DRAM is not the only kind of memory there is, and it is totally correct to say Optan is memory. I definitely don't think they should be combining optane with system memory in marketing though and that is misleading to the average joe looking at these laptops.

 

The article seems like it keeps trying to say that Intel, Dell, and HP are saying directly that Optane is equivilant to DRAM, but the article itself reveals that this isn't the case. 

 

Quote

Intel’s FAQ has been altered in one other way. The messaging about how you can’t use a 16GB Optane cache and 4GB of DRAM to play a game that requires 8GB of RAM has been removed. Under the “Why do I need DRAM if I have Intel Optane memory?” the answer reads “Intel Optane memory system acceleration doesn’t replace the DRAM in your system. It works alongside the DRAM to provide the best possible performance.”

 

That answer isn’t wrong — but it’s lacking the explicit example in the earlier FAQ that made it clear that DRAM and Optane could not substitute for one another.

The author quotes Intel saying that Optane does not replace DRAM, and that is works alongside it which doesn't sound like "repalce" or "substitute" to me, but then follows that quote up by claiming that intel isn't making it clear that optane is not a subsititue for DRAM. Arguably, the author is being a little misleading himself imo. 

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Is this not just HDD cache?  Did I miss something ?  Is the optane directly addressable as system memory?  Will windows report 24gb of system memory?

 

 


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Even if it's 'not technically false' it's still pretty misleading. Reminds me of the OEM laptop AMD core count scandal.


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12 minutes ago, OnyxArmos said:

I never heard about this? What happened? :o

Well, I'm having trouble finding an article but the boys talked about it on the WAN show some time ago. Essentially, AMD (and some OEMs I think or maybe it was a retailer) was in hot water for marketing their laptops with higher core counts than their Intel competitors.

 

It boiled down to a consumer walking into a Best Buy and purchasing an AMD based laptop because it advertised 4 or 6 cores whereas the Intel system only had 2. The consumer thought they were getting a better system. The thing is that at that time, AMD cores were not in parity with Intel in regards to per core performance. In the end, even though the Intel system might only have 2 cores, it would perform better than an AMD system with 4 cores.

 

Customers felt cheated because they thought they were buying the better laptop because it had more cores.

 

 

 

 


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ah yes,went laptop shopping recently and not just dell and hp but even acer,lenovo and every other intel pushed brand did it.Intel has this huge boards up in retails stores all across asia. I was surprised when almost every large big box store had a rgb lighted Intel Gaming Laptop booth.They know how to market to gullible people.

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either the people in the marketing department are idiots, or they are marketing to people who wouldn't know better.

 

However i do constantly see people and it's own marketing referring to it as "Optane Memory" so i can see where the confusion is


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So really it shouldn't be called 'Intel Optane Memory', it should be called 'Intel Optane Storage' or simply 'Optane'. It's not more DRAM or additional RAM but a compliment or a supplement for RAM. But they kind of mislead Optane with the term Memory.

 

Actually...on Intel's website they say this pretty explicitly. It just needs to be more known.

image.png.52681c1c6cbdbc1b4997aeb4f4047d43.png

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I'll say, Ive been seeing this for a couple of months now. Looking at laptop ads in the newspaper when I'm at work...
Personally I am a little annoyed, cause I swear I have seen a fairly high end laptop that said "32 GB memory!" and thought "Oh WOW, Thats a lot of ram, are ram prices finally dropping!?" then later found out it was 16GB of Optane, and 16GB of DRAM.

I think it should be treated like SSD Cache was. There were a couple of machines that used to have 16GB SSD cache along with their 1TB boot drives, but they clearly listed it as Cache.
 

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On 11/19/2018 at 4:54 PM, Curufinwe_wins said:

consumers to be mislead

Well that is the what every company tries to do in one way or another. Some are the worst for it, others will lie just a little. Its just advertising and when companies advertise to Joe Public, its easy to brain wash them as its the Dorito age, why bother investigating yourself, go on Youtube and they will find tear downs yet they refuse to lift a finger other then to bring out their credit card which is already in severe debt.

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this is madness. 

 

8gb of ram isn't enough for anyhting anymore.. advertising optane as ram isn't gonna help that issue. just ? put 16gb ram in new systems! 


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On 11/21/2018 at 9:29 PM, OnyxArmos said:

I never heard about this? What happened? :o

 

On 11/21/2018 at 9:49 PM, MandoPanda said:

Well, I'm having trouble finding an article but the boys talked about it on the WAN show some time ago. Essentially, AMD (and some OEMs I think or maybe it was a retailer) was in hot water for marketing their laptops with higher core counts than their Intel competitors.

 

It boiled down to a consumer walking into a Best Buy and purchasing an AMD based laptop because it advertised 4 or 6 cores whereas the Intel system only had 2. The consumer thought they were getting a better system. The thing is that at that time, AMD cores were not in parity with Intel in regards to per core performance. In the end, even though the Intel system might only have 2 cores, it would perform better than an AMD system with 4 cores.

 

Customers felt cheated because they thought they were buying the better laptop because it had more cores.

Actually it went further then that. They were combining CPU + GPU CU "cores" when listing specs.

 

Example: The A4-3400 has 2 CPU cores and 4 CU's, so some OEM's were advertising them as "6-core" processors.


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26 minutes ago, Tony Brady said:

I'm really confused about it

By Optane in general? Or this specific news article?


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On 11/24/2018 at 4:01 PM, firelighter487 said:

8gb of ram isn't enough for anyhting anymore

What on earth are you talking about?

8gb is plenty for most.

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The misleading ad is clearly done by Intel


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Just now, Canada EH said:

What on earth are you talking about?

8gb is plenty for most.

https://www.census.gov/topics/population/computer-internet.html

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if all you do is browse facebook yes. with 4 tabs, spotify and a bunch of background crap i was sitting at 5+gb used. open a game in that scenario and you're out of ram. 


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Normal business practices, nothing to see here.  This is so typical of every industry Im surprised we care.  The consumer has to educate itself, or be had.  Its been like that since..."Fools Gold".


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On 11/22/2018 at 3:29 AM, OnyxArmos said:

I never heard about this? What happened? :o

On 11/22/2018 at 3:49 AM, MandoPanda said:

-snip-

It boiled down to a consumer walking into a Best Buy and purchasing an AMD based laptop because it advertised 4 or 6 cores whereas the Intel system only had 2. The consumer thought they were getting a better system. The thing is that at that time, AMD cores were not in parity with Intel in regards to per core performance. In the end, even though the Intel system might only have 2 cores, it would perform better than an AMD system with 4 cores.

-snip-

No, that's not really what happened. As @dalekphalm said, what happened was that AMD were combining CPU and GPU cores when marketing their chips, calling it "compute cores".

 

So AMD wrote that for example their A6-7400K had 6 compute cores.

It was a dual core processor with 4 GPU cores. 2 CPU cores + 4 GPU cores = 6 "compute cores".

I can't find much info about it anymore since the product pages has been changed (they got a bit of backlash from it) but here is one of the old promotional campaigns that ran on Newegg.

 

That, and this "optane + RAM = X GB of memory" are both shitty moves trying to confuse people who don't know better.

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On 11/26/2018 at 5:35 PM, firelighter487 said:

if all you do is browse facebook yes. with 4 tabs, spotify and a bunch of background crap i was sitting at 5+gb used. open a game in that scenario and you're out of ram. 

Because everyone games.

 

Not to mention that 5gb of memory being "used" doesn't mean that 5gb of memory was needed. Operating systems will use more memory than is needed since idle memory is wasted memory -- you may as well load something into it and hope that on some off chance it gets used.

 

8gb of ram is more than enough for most people.


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