Question: Why do CPU IHSs exist?

[corrado33]

The internal heat spreader on a CPU is a piece of nickel plated copper. The base of any decent cooler is a piece of nickel plated (or just normal) copper. 

 

One would imagine that the IHS does less heat "spreading" and more "die protecting"... right? Why don't we just mount coolers directly on top of the die? 

[Jurrunio]

2 minutes ago, corrado33 said:

One would imagine that the IHS does less heat "spreading" and more "die protecting"... right?

Exactly, to prevent dummies from mounting the cooler with too much force and crush the die.

[corrado33]

Just now, Jurrunio said:

Exactly, to prevent dummies from mounting the cooler with too much force and crush the die.

But then... why don't non-dummies mount their cooler correctly and... reap the benefits? 

[Jurrunio]

1 minute ago, corrado33 said:

But then... why don't non-dummies mount their cooler correctly and... reap the benefits? 

it's not like they can ban dummies from buying desktop CPUs

 

laptop CPUs have no lids for this reason, only the manufacturer will be touching them (supposedly).

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

1 minute ago, Jurrunio said:

Exactly, to prevent dummies from mounting the cooler with too much force and crush the die.

not really, how much force are you talking about to crush it??

 

[corrado33]

2 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

it's not like they can ban dummies from buying desktop CPUs

 

laptop CPUs have no lids for this reason, only the manufacturer will be touching them (supposedly).

Yes, that's my point. What I'm asking is why doesn't someone like LTT or Jay delid a CPU then just mount the cooler straight onto the die? 

 

EDIT: I suppose you'd need a special cooler to actually reach down into the socket and touch the die. Shouldn't be too hard to machine a few mm off the sides of an existing cooler. 

[Shimejii]

Just now, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

not really, how much force are you talking about to crush it??

 

Its going to take a complete redesign of the chip, and shell to make it work. The current setup is thin enough to damage if you are not lapping (sanding it down to make it flat) and such. Id enjoy it as GPU's tend to do better here but they are much larger die's

[bellabichon]

1 minute ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

not really, how much force are you talking about to crush it??

 

If you were to overtighten the retention screws on a cooler, you could most definitely crush the die by accident. It is metal, but it's not entirely solid metal. 

[Pasi123]

It was pretty common to accidentally crush the die back when CPU's didn't have a heatspeaders.

[corrado33]

Just now, bellabichon said:

If you were to overtighten the retention screws on a cooler, you could most definitely crush the die by accident. It is metal, but it's not entirely solid metal. 

Every air cooler I've ever used has had some sort of mechanism to clearly let the user know when it was "tight enough". Usually it's a spring compressing. When the spring is compressed completely, it's tight. Don't tighten anymore. 

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

I still dont think cpu nowadays is anywhere near fragile, why cant the die be larger? 

[Jurrunio]

3 minutes ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

not really, how much force are you talking about to crush it??

 

less force than what it takes to open a fresh bottle of soda. They really are fragile.

 

4 minutes ago, corrado33 said:

Yes, that's my point. What I'm asking is why doesn't someone like LTT or Jay delid a CPU then just mount the cooler straight onto the die? 

 

EDIT: I suppose you'd need a special cooler to actually reach down into the socket and touch the die. Shouldn't be too hard to machine a few mm off the sides of an existing cooler. 

direct-die cooling is a thing. You can find crazy people doing it with watercooling.

[Jurrunio]

Just now, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

I still dont think cpu nowadays is anywhere near fragile, why cant the die be larger? 

waste of money and resources and silicon. These wafers are expensive

[corrado33]

1 minute ago, Jurrunio said:

direct-die cooling is a thing. You can find crazy people doing it with watercooling.

Yeah I remember that one vid LTT did of the one watercooled direct die cooler, but then never again. I'm just surprised more people don't do it. I'd imagine it'd be of huge benefit. Removing a layer of thermal paste and a layer of copper seems like it'd be a great idea. 

[Jurrunio]

11 minutes ago, corrado33 said:

Yeah I remember that one vid LTT did of the one watercooled direct die cooler, but then never again. I'm just surprised more people don't do it. I'd imagine it'd be of huge benefit. Removing a layer of thermal paste and a layer of copper seems like it'd be a great idea. 

why don't you do it? Then you can experience how fragile the dies are yourself.

[wojtepanik]

not caused by overtighten, but from uneven spread of force on one side ( or corner ) of the cooler

[Curufinwe_wins]

3 minutes ago, wojtepanik said:

not caused by overtighten, but from uneven spread of force on one side ( or corner ) of the cooler

Strictly speaking it could occur from too much force, but the pcb is more likely to break in that case instead. Uneven is the bigger problem for sure.

[WereCatf]

3 minutes ago, wojtepanik said:

not caused by overtighten, but from uneven spread of force on one side ( or corner ) of the cooler

Happened to me, too, back in the day; chipped one of the corners when putting on a heatsink, and I hadn't even started to tighten it down yet. Those things really are quite fragile.

[wojtepanik]

7 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

Happened to me, too, back in the day; chipped one of the corners when putting on a heatsink, and I hadn't even started to tighten it down yet. Those things really are quite fragile.

brittle is a word I would use

[corrado33]

8 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

why don't you do it? Then you can experience how fragile the dies are yourself.

Because I don't have the disposable income that LTT does

[asand1]

Silicon is quite literally glass. Very fragile and succeptible to corners chipping from uneven pressure. GPUs are direct die cooled and some people will remove IHS and CPU retention devices in order to direct die cool.

 

Manufacturers are protecting their asses by putting IHSs over the dies and avoiding warranty claims. These are $300-$1200 parts that in many cases idiots are assemblimg at home.

[badreg]

24 minutes ago, asand1 said:

Silicon is quite literally glass. 

Glass is silica (SiO2). Silicon wafers are nearly 100% pure silicon, doped with boron or phosphorus to turn them into semiconductors.

 

Furthermore, the durability of a substance is not determined by its chemical composition, but rather the structure of the bonds between atoms (e.g. graphite vs diamond).