apple Louis Rossmann just had 20 Apple batteries seized by US Customs

[79wjd]

 

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Dunno about you, fellas, but the only way to side with Apple on this, even considering lack of proper info,

Or if you're capable of rationale thought. There is absolutely nothing to support Apple hunting down Rossman and controlling CBP. Alternatively, CBP is literally doing the job that they are required to do by the US government -- inspect imports and confiscate anything that violates import laws. Something that Rossman outright admits to doing.

[hobobobo]

18 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

 

Or if you're capable of rationale thought. There is absolutely nothing to support Apple hunting down Rossman and controlling CBP. Alternatively, CBP is literally doing the job that they are required to do by the US government -- inspect imports and confiscate anything that violates import laws. Something that Rossman outright admits to doing.

If you are capable of rational thought, you have condamned apple long time ago and stopped buying their products. Even prof musicians and artists are slowly leaving the platform, despite not having a 100% substitue product. Edit: And also, there is exactly 1 rational reason left to buy apple - software ecosystem. Hackintosh is literally the only solution if you are buying Apple out of rationality and not vanity/comfort.

 

Dont throw shit out of proportion. Rossman would be dead\crippled\debtridden\forgotten if a 1kkk company decided to "hunt" him. And "controlling" seems just an oversimplification in order to throw the whole shit out as ridiculous. Ofc apple is not controlling CBP, apple is influencing it and the laws governing it. And its not alone in doing so. Im sorry, but looking at Apple as innocent until proven guilty only works if you separate this shitshow from all the previous ones. Repeat offenders are always viewed in a biased way and there is nothing wrong with that.

[79wjd]

 

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Repeat offenders are always viewed in a biased way and there is nothing wrong with that.

There's a very big difference between having concerns that Apple has done something given their track record (although, again, that would still only make sense if this was something abnormal for CBP, which it's not -- hell even if Rossman didn't come out and say he's intentionally and continually playing illegal games with CBP you could have a point, but he did) and saying that Apple is clearly guilty because of their track record and absolutely zero proof.

 

I don't think it's an issue it's Apple's marketing department being stuck up anyone (in this particular case), but rather a blind hatred of Apple.

[Carclis]

1 hour ago, Tenelia said:

Er, I'm not sure if this Louis guy is fulltime tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist. As in, if someone were to tell me such stories about Intel or Microsoft I'd be super skeptical... I'd understand if it were once or twice, but really just to spend all that corporate resources on one person? Seriously?

Literally 95% (maybe more) of his job is repairing Apple products. He knows their products better than most, including even what Apple claims to be their Geniuses. Of course he is going to have a significant amount of insider info and a strong opinion of the company, especially given he has numerous AASP contacts.

[hobobobo]

7 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

 

There's a very big difference between having concerns that Apple has done something given their track record (although, again, that would still only make sense if this was something abnormal for CBP, which it's not -- hell even if Rossman didn't come out and say he's intentionally and continually playing illegal games with CBP you could have a point, but he did) and saying that Apple is clearly guilty because of their track record and absolutely zero proof.

Dont think i said they are outright guilty. I say their limit of trust is exhausted and that the only way to side with Apple at this point is to be their zealot. Even if Rossman is missleading, at this point im more inclined to consider his version to be closer to truth. His statement on fighting this decision gives him extra credibility, considering that he kinda stakes his reputation on this one. In the case of CBP and Apple being in the right here, chances of which i consider kinda slim but in no way nonexistent, id gladly swallow being wrong and would look at Apple a bit better. As of now its the same shit thats happening with Russia in the news - something bad happened and russians were nearby - its the Russians. Same shit with Apple

 

 

Edit: Oh, dont get me wrong. It is indeed hatred for Apple, its just its not blind but based on their past and current actions and relativly long experience of using most of their products

[Trik'Stari]

1 hour ago, Tenelia said:

Er, I'm not sure if this Louis guy is fulltime tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist. As in, if someone were to tell me such stories about Intel or Microsoft I'd be super skeptical... I'd understand if it were once or twice, but really just to spend all that corporate resources on one person? Seriously?

Nevermind Recording Labels going after 8 year olds for downloading an album by sending the police to their house to seize the laptops.

 

Downloading albums that the Record Label put out there to catch people downloading "illegally".

 

That actually happened.

 

I can totally see Apple doing this, as repairs are a direct threat to their profit margin, as well as other OEM's. Most of them seem to want to just make disposable devices these days, and look for any reason they can to deny a repair.

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, hobobobo said:

If you are capable of rational thought, you have condamned apple long time ago and stopped buying their products. Even prof musicians and artists are slowly leaving the platform, despite not having a 100% substitue product. Edit: And also, there is exactly 1 rational reason left to buy apple - software ecosystem. Hackintosh is literally the only solution if you are buying Apple out of rationality and not vanity/comfort.

 

Dont throw shit out of proportion. Rossman would be dead\crippled\debtridden\forgotten if a 1kkk company decided to "hunt" him. And "controlling" seems just an oversimplification in order to throw the whole shit out as ridiculous. Ofc apple is not controlling CBP, apple is influencing it and the laws governing it. And its not alone in doing so. Im sorry, but looking at Apple as innocent until proven guilty only works if you separate this shitshow from all the previous ones. Repeat offenders are always viewed in a biased way and there is nothing wrong with that.

"Don't throw shit out of proportion," he says, as he seriously claims that no rational person would buy an Apple product.  That's a hyperbolic, unfounded statement, and you know it.

 

You need evidence that Apple is influencing CBP, not just vague suspicions based on what you believe they've done in the past.  This isn't like removing the headphone dongle from iPhone packages; you're literally accusing a government body of colluding with a company to punish a single person for... trying to repair things.  When you make an extraordinary claim like that, the burden of proof is on you.

[Razor Blade]

Apple will go after a little guy and I'm sure it isn't the first time CBP has seized a shipment deemed "counterfeit". As Louis mentioned Jessa Jones dealt with this situation.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/evk4wk/dhs-seizes-iphone-screens-jessa-jones

 

It's pretty clear that Apple is completely against 3rd party repair. They're also lobbying heavily to get the "right to repair" movement crushed. Sure this is all circumstantial evidence, however given Apple's stance on devices being repaired not by them...I'd draw the conclusion. Not that Apple can influence CBP but Apple is likely using CBP as a tool in order to cause issues to 3rd party repair shops.

 

I don't think Apple is just targeting Louis and Jessa. Likely Apple is working hard to block any shipment they can in order to stop those who are repairing Apple products that isn't an "Authorized" repair center. It is just that we hear about it since they both have some of the public eye being youtubers and (in the case of Jessa) advocates of right to repair testifying in a class action lawsuit.

[wANKER]

[hobobobo]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

"Don't throw shit out of proportion," he says, as he seriously claims that no rational person would buy an Apple product.  That's a hyperbolic, unfounded statement, and you know it.

 

You need evidence that Apple is influencing CBP, not just vague suspicions based on what you believe they've done in the past.  This isn't like removing the headphone dongle from iPhone packages; you're literally accusing a government body of colluding with a company to punish a single person for... trying to repair things.  When you make an extraordinary claim like that, the burden of proof is on you.

Id agree with it being hyperbolic 2-3 years ago, as of now im completly sure that no rational person would buy an Apple product. There are other reasons to do so, as in familiarity, vanity, status or being held captive by the ecosystem. It used to be that Apple hardware was the choice for alot of professionals, a rational choice as you got alot of essential\convinient things at a small premium. Now the premium is bigger and the amount of essential\convinient stuff is almost non-existent. I cant think of a single useful thing apple "innovated" in the last year or two.

 

Evidence is needed in court. The claim is Rossmans and he is going to court, or at least implies so. Why would i provide proof? As i stated above, past transgressions is all the evidence i need to hold Rossmans version of events in high esteem.

Oh, im sorry, goverment body colluding with a private company would be something new or outlandish? And where did i say it was to punish a single person? Its a fucken modus operandi for Apple, the amount of people doesnt matter. And its kinda interesting where are all the samsung, oneplus, lg and all the other oem parts being seized?

[Jito463]

50 minutes ago, hobobobo said:

And its kinda interesting where are all the samsung, oneplus, lg and all the other oem parts being seized?

I'm neither condoning nor condemning the seizing of these parts, but I would point out that just because we haven't heard of it happening with other company's products, doesn't mean that it never happens.

[D13H4RD]

1 hour ago, hobobobo said:

Its a fucken modus operandi for Apple

The thing is, how do we know that it is a modus operandi by them? 

 

We can point out the coincidence but it may just be a coincidence or maybe they had something to do with it? 

 

I don't know any more than most of us here do. Unless we have actual concrete proof that supports one theory or the other, we're just digging holes. 

 

Is Apple involved in this? Were they confiscated due to violations of IP law? Was it like the case involving iPhone displays last time? So many questions, and only the last one was answered. 

[pas008]

So am i getting this right?

He bought products that were branded apple but the company doesn't have apple license and people are crying about it?

Its counterfeit if they aren't authorized to brand them

 

[hobobobo]

2 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

The thing is, how do we know that it is a modus operandi by them? 

 

We can point out the coincidence but it may just be a coincidence or maybe they had something to do with it? 

 

I don't know any more than most of us here do. Unless we have actual concrete proof that supports one theory or the other, we're just digging holes. 

 

Is Apple involved in this? Were they confiscated due to violations of IP law? Was it like the case involving iPhone displays last time? So many questions, and only the last one was answered. 

Well, you are right is a sense, but i kinda think the links posted in previous posts detailing apples practices kinda points to it. There is a swarm of little thing pointing in the same direction, but yes, nothing monolithic. But i honestly doubt there is a way for us to know more without an open court.

 

10 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

I'm neither condoning nor condemning the seizing of these parts, but I would point out that just because we haven't heard of it happening with other company's products, doesn't mean that it never happens.

Thats true, lack of visible occurances doesnt point to lack of occurances pre se. I admit, my statement is a bit incorrect in a sense that i base it on samsung, lg and others (im 100% sure only about those 2) provide spare parts for their whole line-up on their own site. In the olden day they even gave supplier contacts for the parts which are discontinued. Doesnt mean counterfeit parts dont get confiscated, but thx to their practices it wont happen en mass, since there is not even a fraction of demand for 3rd party parts.

[Amazonsucks]

29 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

I'm neither condoning nor condemning the seizing of these parts, but I would point out that just because we haven't heard of it happening with other company's products, doesn't mean that it never happens.

If they are indeed counterfeits they should be seized. 

[Blademaster91]

7 minutes ago, Amazonsucks said:

If they are indeed counterfeits they should be seized. 

In the case of what Apple considers ''vintage'' iirc is 5 years and won't supply any ''genuine'' batteries which is stupid, parts shouldn't be seized like this anyway as mentioned you don't hear of customs stopping other parts like samsung or lg replacements.

[Amazonsucks]

Just now, Blademaster91 said:

In the case of what Apple considers ''vintage'' iirc is 5 years and won't supply any ''genuine'' batteries which is stupid, parts shouldn't be seized like this anyway as mentioned you don't hear of customs stopping other parts like samsung or lg replacements.

Thats why i said counterfeit. If theyre just generic replacements thats not counterfeitting. Counterfeit would be them trying to pass off fake stuff as real. 

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, hobobobo said:

snip

Dude, I personally really don't like apple for a whole bunch of reasons, but seriously to make claims no rationale person would buy an apple product is ironically irrational.  

 

And with regard to customs doing apples bidding,   All apples products likely ship form one of only a few places in china to one place in the US, so it's easy for them to tell customs Anything with the apple logo not being shipped to them is counterfeit.   This disregards a whole lot of other legal possibilities like refurbishment etc.  However that would explain why you don't hear of other companies products in the news.

 

Besides, it looks like they do concentrate their efforts outside apple, but maybe it's significantly more common to seize batteries because no one replaces Samsung batteries?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-usa-counterfeit/u-s-china-team-up-to-seize-counterfeit-goods-in-joint-operation-idUSBRE96U0X120130731

 

 

As I said in my very first post on this topic, "whilst I don't know the particular details of these situations".  because I am sure there is a lot more to it that what you, me or any other forum no body knows about.  And it sure seems like an issue with the laws of the land being influenced by corporate lobbying. Of which Apple is only one corporate entity.

[Commodus]

5 hours ago, hobobobo said:

Id agree with it being hyperbolic 2-3 years ago, as of now im completly sure that no rational person would buy an Apple product. There are other reasons to do so, as in familiarity, vanity, status or being held captive by the ecosystem. It used to be that Apple hardware was the choice for alot of professionals, a rational choice as you got alot of essential\convinient things at a small premium. Now the premium is bigger and the amount of essential\convinient stuff is almost non-existent. I cant think of a single useful thing apple "innovated" in the last year or two.

 

Evidence is needed in court. The claim is Rossmans and he is going to court, or at least implies so. Why would i provide proof? As i stated above, past transgressions is all the evidence i need to hold Rossmans version of events in high esteem.

Oh, im sorry, goverment body colluding with a private company would be something new or outlandish? And where did i say it was to punish a single person? Its a fucken modus operandi for Apple, the amount of people doesnt matter. And its kinda interesting where are all the samsung, oneplus, lg and all the other oem parts being seized?

Sorry, but if you're going to seriously claim that no rational person would buy an Apple product, you're immature.  Some of us want Macs for production workflows; some of us want iPhones for the design, performance, ecosystem (both accessories and apps) and security/privacy policies;  some of us want Apple Watches because... well, frankly, most of the Android options for smartwatches suck (Samsung's models and the Fitbit Versa are the main exceptions).  Just because you, personally, don't see reasons doesn't mean that there aren't reasons.

 

And hey, if you hadn't noticed, you're debating an issue on a forum.  If you're trying to persuade someone in a debate that there's merit to a serious allegation, you need to provide evidence.  Simply stating that you feel it's true because of past practices isn't good enough.  And given how you've already demonstrated that you're irrational... yeah, you have a pretty large mountain to climb before you're going to convince anyone that your argument has merit.

[hobobobo]

15 hours ago, Commodus said:

Sorry, but if you're going to seriously claim that no rational person would buy an Apple product, you're immature.  Some of us want Macs for production workflows; some of us want iPhones for the design, performance, ecosystem (both accessories and apps) and security/privacy policies;  some of us want Apple Watches because... well, frankly, most of the Android options for smartwatches suck (Samsung's models and the Fitbit Versa are the main exceptions).  Just because you, personally, don't see reasons doesn't mean that there aren't reasons.

Production workflow would be something id agree with as being a rational reason to get a mac a couple of years ago. The rest are not about logic or rationality. Design is pure vanity, performance is a ethereal whistle, most flagships perform the same. Is there anything unique about apple ecosystem? Its sure used to be alot better then google play or other android ones. As i can tell from my parents iphones ipads its not that different today. And i cant say a thing about apple watch being the best of the bunch since i never used a smartwatch and i doubt i ever will, perhaps there is some good reason to wear one, i just cant think of one. You are confusing no reason with no rational reason. Ive written a couple of perfectly fine reasons in the previous post, but none of them are rational.

 

Im not really tryin to persuade any1, its a fools errand. Im just expressing my opinion. I honestly feel that reading comprehension is amiss. I repeat, allegations are not mine, i dont "feel", i think they are close to truth. <content removed>

Edited October 22, 2018 by SansVarnic

[mr moose]

5 hours ago, hobobobo said:

Im not really tryin to persuade any1, its a fools errand. Im just expressing my opinion. I honestly feel that reading comprehension is amiss. I repeat, allegations are not mine, i dont "feel", i think they are close to truth.

But you are calling every apple customer irrational which is both ignorant and an insult,  calling it an opinion doesn't change the nature of it.

 

<content removed>

Edited October 22, 2018 by SansVarnic

[Master Delta Chief]

14 hours ago, pas008 said:

So am i getting this right?

He bought products that were branded apple but the company doesn't have apple license and people are crying about it?

Its counterfeit if they aren't authorized to brand them

 

The only reason he has to get other equipment from non-authorized/licensed Apple retailers, is basically because the equipment itself is not available by the official means (At least not the ones he requires). This whole battery situation thing could've been solved by having Apple giving more leniency towards manufactures to create batteries for older models and just simply towards those who are doing repairs in general. However, that is not the entire point of this topic. 

 

If these products are indeed counterfeit, then I do understand that they're being taken but then again, I personally think it's more the responsibility for the buyer itself rather than the government. The buyer could test the battery out and check if it is indeed counterfeit.  If counterfeit, he or she can report it to the necessary authorities. Of course, since Rossman is actually reselling it, he could try to do something cheeky about it like most businesses do these days... 

[pas008]

2 hours ago, Master Delta Chief said:

The only reason he has to get other equipment from non-authorized/licensed Apple retailers, is basically because the equipment itself is not available by the official means (At least not the ones he requires). This whole battery situation thing could've been solved by having Apple giving more leniency towards manufactures to create batteries for older models and just simply towards those who are doing repairs in general. However, that is not the entire point of this topic. 

 

If these products are indeed counterfeit, then I do understand that they're being taken but then again, I personally think it's more the responsibility for the buyer itself rather than the government. The buyer could test the battery out and check if it is indeed counterfeit.  If counterfeit, he or she can report it to the necessary authorities. Of course, since Rossman is actually reselling it, he could try to do something cheeky about it like most businesses do these days... 

 

any enforcement stepping in is in right

To get these off the street if these were branded illegally

[PineyCreek]

2 minutes ago, pas008 said:

 

any enforcement stepping in is in right

To get these off the street if these were branded illegally

The reason he makes a big deal about it in the video is they're OEM Apple batteries, not counterfeit, at least that's what he paid for.

[Blademaster91]

3 minutes ago, pas008 said:

 

any enforcement stepping in is in right

To get these off the street if these were branded illegally

Theres a difference between refurbished and a counterfeit, the batteries are apparently OEM from parts laptops which IMO anyway should be considered refurbished. Even if they did have visible branding, Apple has had hardware seized before such as screens with replaced glass.