Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
abjd

Discord ToS update revokes users' right to sue

Recommended Posts

Posted · Original PosterOP

https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/9p5uyp/latest_tos_update_revokes_your_right_to_sue/

Quote

From the Discord API server:

Discord has changed their Terms of Service!

 

Unfortunately, this change comes with a revocation of your legal rights. Discord has revoked your right to sue (you must go through an arbitrator) and to congregate as a class action lawsuit.

Luckily, there is an opt-out for the clause, in which you must email arbitration-opt-out@discord.com, but you must do it within 30 days or you can no longer opt-out.

 

YOU CANNOT DELETE OR DEACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT TO OPT-OUT OF THE ARBITRATION CLAUSE

 

You can see the added clauses for yourself here: https://gist.github.com/Rapptz/c93697c9d59ec2f0d8071b7d0e907632

I will attempt to answer some common questions.

 

Is this enforceable?

In the United States, yes. This was decided by the Supreme Court in 2011. See https://gc.gy/7538114

In Europe, no. There are many clauses, a relevant one is Article 77 of the GDPR ("Right to lodge a complaint with a supervisory authority").

 

Why does this matter?

Without the ability to congregate for a class action lawsuit, if Discord ever leaks your data or does something catastrophically bad to a large portion of the population you have no way to representatively sue together without each of you individually suing via the arbitrator.

Please see the following article: https://gc.gy/7538130

 

Essentially:

  1. Your right to file a complaint in the court of law is removed.

  2. The arbitration system tends to heavily favour the company rather than the consumer.

  3. Since your right to pool similar complaints together is taken away, the amount of damage you can do to a company that has wronged you significantly is limited to those who are willing to arbitrate.

 

Why should I care? Other companies do it too!

By learning about this I hope that you will be more conscious about these arbitration clauses and how anti-consumer they are. You can't change the past, but you surely can't predict the future either.


The top stickied comment to that thread is a staff reply, if you want to check that out. The gist of it is that it'll apparently protect them against frivolous lawsuits that law firms get rich off of.

I had my worries about Discord and was reminded of what Stallman says about discord here https://stallman.org/discord.html. One of the pages he also links to there speaks about the possibility of discord selling their data in the future, even though they claim not to at the moment. Perhaps behind the scenes they're preparing to protect themselves for something like this down the road.

One thing to note is that new accounts can opt-out 30 days after creation. Hopefully they'll add a notice about this in the account creation process in the future, or even better a yes/no dialog to make it easier.

[Edit] Turns out Discord's CEO apparently has a shady past in which he sold his previous social platform to a Japanese company without any notice to users. The company then harvested all the data and shut down the platform, but not before being hit with a class action lawsuit.

Source: 
https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/9peikv/in_light_of_the_tos_update_regarding_class_action/

[Edit] They changed it. The opt-out period is now 90 days and the arbitration clause now only applies to users within the US.


https://blog.discordapp.com/terms-of-service-feedback-and-changes-c58a530c7693

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does discord to make it pain to opt out? It should just be a option in client/interface.

 

This is why I never go on board discord.


Magical Pineapples


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Link to post
Share on other sites

These are... discordious times


F@H Team Rank: 48                                                              A single, faster GPU is better than two slower ones in SLI

 

My Build, v2.1 --- CPU: i7-8700K @ 5.2GHz/1.288v || MoBo: Asus ROG STRIX Z390-E Gaming || RAM: 4x4GB G.SKILL Ripjaws 4 2666 14-14-14-33 || Cooler: Custom Loop || GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC Black, on water || PSU: EVGA G2 850W || Case: Corsair 450D || SSD: 850 Evo 250GB || Storage: WD Blue 2TB || G502 & Glorious PCGR Fully Custom 80% Keyboard || MX34VQ, PG278Q, PB278Q

Audio --- Headphones: Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX || Amp: Schiit Audio Magni 3 || DAC: Schiit Audio Modi 3 || Mic: Blue Yeti

 

My Truck --- 1998.5 24v Cummins || ECSB || 47RE, Goerend triple disk TC & shift kit || 4" Turbo Back, 22" KMC XD Bombs, Airdog II-4G Lift Pump

 

The Experiment --- CPU: i5-3570K @ 4.0 GHz || MoBo: Asus P8Z77-V LK || RAM: 16GB Corsair 1600 4x4 || Cooler: CM Hyper 212 Evo || GPUs: Asus GTX 750 Ti, MSI GTX 1080 Ti Gaming X || PSU: Corsair TX750M Gold || Case: Thermaltake Core G21 TG || SSD: 840 Pro 128GB || HDD: Seagate Barracuda 2TB || Total invested: $360 USD (excluding 1080 Ti)

 

R.I.P. Asus X99-A motherboard, April 2016 - October 2018, may you rest in peace. 5820K, if I ever buy you a new board, it'll be a good one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So people with an existing account can't opt out? 


I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play MTGA & watch anime at 720p...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee! The Cassette Deck!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

So people with an existing account can't opt out? 

You have 30 days to do so

56 minutes ago, abjd said:

Luckily, there is an opt-out for the clause, in which you must email arbitration-opt-out@discord.com, but you must do it within 30 days or you can no longer opt-out.

 


F@H Team Rank: 48                                                              A single, faster GPU is better than two slower ones in SLI

 

My Build, v2.1 --- CPU: i7-8700K @ 5.2GHz/1.288v || MoBo: Asus ROG STRIX Z390-E Gaming || RAM: 4x4GB G.SKILL Ripjaws 4 2666 14-14-14-33 || Cooler: Custom Loop || GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC Black, on water || PSU: EVGA G2 850W || Case: Corsair 450D || SSD: 850 Evo 250GB || Storage: WD Blue 2TB || G502 & Glorious PCGR Fully Custom 80% Keyboard || MX34VQ, PG278Q, PB278Q

Audio --- Headphones: Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX || Amp: Schiit Audio Magni 3 || DAC: Schiit Audio Modi 3 || Mic: Blue Yeti

 

My Truck --- 1998.5 24v Cummins || ECSB || 47RE, Goerend triple disk TC & shift kit || 4" Turbo Back, 22" KMC XD Bombs, Airdog II-4G Lift Pump

 

The Experiment --- CPU: i5-3570K @ 4.0 GHz || MoBo: Asus P8Z77-V LK || RAM: 16GB Corsair 1600 4x4 || Cooler: CM Hyper 212 Evo || GPUs: Asus GTX 750 Ti, MSI GTX 1080 Ti Gaming X || PSU: Corsair TX750M Gold || Case: Thermaltake Core G21 TG || SSD: 840 Pro 128GB || HDD: Seagate Barracuda 2TB || Total invested: $360 USD (excluding 1080 Ti)

 

R.I.P. Asus X99-A motherboard, April 2016 - October 2018, may you rest in peace. 5820K, if I ever buy you a new board, it'll be a good one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As its not enforceable in Europe, is it any point opting out for Europeans?


“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. 
It matters that you don't just give up.”

-Stephen Hawking

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Mihle said:

As its not enforceable in Europe, is it any point opting out for Europeans?

id still do it as laws could change or maybe il move somewhere out of the EU so i think its still important to opt out. 


I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play MTGA & watch anime at 720p...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee! The Cassette Deck!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't looked into this thoroughly, but there are some things to note about the Discord EULA that make it seem that Discord is doing what software and service publishers routinely do, which is talk about of their ass and claim things that are not legally enforceable, relying on the daunting and intimidating impression that their EULA makes to ward off challenges before they occur.

 

10 hours ago, abjd said:

Discord ToS update revokes users' right to sue

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/9p5uyp/latest_tos_update_revokes_your_right_to_sue/

 

Unfortunately, this change comes with a revocation of your legal rights. Discord has revoked your right to sue (you must go through an arbitrator) and to congregate as a class action lawsuit.

 

Quote

 

Is this enforceable?

In the United States, yes. This was decided by the Supreme Court in 2011. See https://gc.gy/7538114

In Europe, no. There are many clauses, a relevant one is Article 77 of the GDPR ("Right to lodge a complaint with a supervisory authority").

 

 

 

I believe the US Supreme Court ruling doesn't allow companies to take away people's right to sue, but to sue as a class-action lawsuit, and that individual lawsuits may still be brought against companies that appeal to the US SC ruling for protection from class-action lawsuits.

 

Revoking the right to sue on an individual basis would sound to me like a liability waiver, and enforceability of liability waivers varies in the US from state to state, but, in general, liability waivers can absolve a company of your personal negligence and actions, and from reasonable equipment failure, but not from design and manufacturing defects that cause harm - such as an update that deleted personal data.

 

https://www.frickey.com/need-know-liability-waivers/

 

https://www.frickey.com/denver-personal-injury-lawyers/products-liability-lawyer/

 

A company cannot take away a person's right to legal justice. It just depends on what the right to legal justice is defined as being.

 

 

The Discord EULA says:

Quote

For residents outside the United States, arbitration shall be initiated in San Francisco, California.

For residents outside the United States, legal rights are established by the country which the resident is in, and Discord will be subject to that foreign country's laws if Discord makes its service available in that country. So, that part of the Discord EULA counts for nothing, it's a bluff. A person outside the USA can sue Discord in the country they reside in, and Discord will have to meet the lawsuit according to that non-US country's laws regarding lawsuits.

 

Also, EULAs are, for the most part, garbage without legal backing and can largely be ignored.

 

 

The Discord EULA says:

Quote

If any clause within this Arbitration Section is found to be illegal or unenforceable, that specific clause will be severed from this section, and the remainder of its provisions will be given full force and effect.

And that's the popular thing to add to EULAs these days. Most of what EULAs claim is false, bogus, and pointless in the face of actual laws. By writing the above claim in their EULAs, companies aim to keep claiming all the legally-indefensible things that they traditionally have been yet not get called out on it because they also claim 'anything that isn't valid doesn't negate whatever is valid'.

 

What Discord is saying by adding that phrase is that they know they are claiming things that aren't valid or enforceable in their EULA. But, they want to claim those things anyway to benefit from those claims' psychological effects upon uninformed readers, while mitigating the risk from those invalidly-claimed things undermining any possible validity to other parts of the EULA, since Discord hopes to use any potential scrap of validity in other parts of the EULA as their defences in future court cases.

Link to post
Share on other sites

hey OP i found this email template for those that want to opt-out:

 

Spoiler

'EMAIL TEMPLATE SEND THIS EMAIL TO: arbitration-opt-out@discord.com

 

Dear Discord,

By this email, I am opting out of the agreement to arbitrate as authorized by the new changes to the Discord Terms of Service Agreement.

I DO NOT AGREE TO THE AGREEMENT TO ARBITRATE FOR THE ACCOUNT(S) LISTED/DESCRIBED BELOW:

kelvinwop#6523

with email: XXXXXXXX@gmail.com

and SMS: 218-XXX-XXXX

Please let me know immediately if there is additional information needed to implement my opt-out request. Finally, I would like to ask for written confirmation that you have received and processed this notice.

Sincerely, XXXXXX XXXX

qdjj0IJ.png


I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play MTGA & watch anime at 720p...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee! The Cassette Deck!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Shitty, but Discord is way to useful to me now.


DZ77SL-50K LGA 1155 Motherboard  650W Thermaltake PSU  Intel i5 3450 CPU  16GB DDR3 RAM  Sapphire Nitro RX 460 (4GB) GPU   500GB Hitachi HDD + 240GB Sandisk G25 SSD   Antec VSK 4000E Mid Tower Case (home-made glass window)  CRYORIG M9i Mini CPU Cooler + Kingwin CF-012LBW Intake + default outtake fan

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, williamcll said:

BACK TO TEAMSPEAK

Ventrilo bro 😎


 Motherboard  ROG Strix B350-F Gaming | CPU Ryzen 5 1600 | GPU Sapphire Radeon RX 480 Nitro+ OC  | RAM Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000MHz 2x8Gb | OS Drive  Crucial MX300 525Gb M.2 | WiFi Card  ASUS PCE-AC68 | Case Switch 810 Gunmetal Grey SE | Storage WD 1.5tb, SanDisk Ultra 3D 500Gb, Samsung 840 EVO 120Gb | NAS Solution Synology 413j 8TB (6TB with 2TB redundancy using Synology Hybrid RAID) | Keyboard SteelSeries APEX | Mouse Razer Naga MMO Edition Green | Fan Controller Sentry LXE | Screens Sony 43" TV | Sound Logitech 5.1 X530

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

hey OP i found this email template for those that want to opt-out:

 

  Hide contents

'EMAIL TEMPLATE SEND THIS EMAIL TO: arbitration-opt-out@discord.com

 

Dear Discord,

By this email, I am opting out of the agreement to arbitrate as authorized by the new changes to the Discord Terms of Service Agreement.

I DO NOT AGREE TO THE AGREEMENT TO ARBITRATE FOR THE ACCOUNT(S) LISTED/DESCRIBED BELOW:

kelvinwop#6523

with email: XXXXXXXX@gmail.com

and SMS: 218-XXX-XXXX

Please let me know immediately if there is additional information needed to implement my opt-out request. Finally, I would like to ask for written confirmation that you have received and processed this notice.

Sincerely, XXXXXX XXXX

qdjj0IJ.png

Thank you very much for the easy template, I've seen a fair number of copy-pasted warnings but nobody was including a simple email template to write to opt out.

 

I don't speak legalese and subsequently probably wouldst have been able to write my own email.

 

Once again, Thank you for your fantastic contribution.


Pellet Stove

Spoiler

CPU - I7 6700k l CPU Cooler - Noctua NH-D15 l GPU - MSI GTX 1080 Gaming Z l Mobo - MSI Gaming Pro Carbon l RAM - 16GB @ 2666 Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 l PSU - Corsair RM850i l SSD - Samsung 850 Evo 250GB | HDD - Toshiba 2TB | Case - Cooler Master HAF XB EVO W/ LTT Noctua NF-F12s l OS - Windows 10 l Mouse - Azio Levetron GM2000 l KeyBoard - Corsair K95 RGB l

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

hey OP i found this email template for those that want to opt-out:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

'EMAIL TEMPLATE SEND THIS EMAIL TO: arbitration-opt-out@discord.com

 

Dear Discord,

By this email, I am opting out of the agreement to arbitrate as authorized by the new changes to the Discord Terms of Service Agreement.

I DO NOT AGREE TO THE AGREEMENT TO ARBITRATE FOR THE ACCOUNT(S) LISTED/DESCRIBED BELOW:

kelvinwop#6523

with email: XXXXXXXX@gmail.com

and SMS: 218-XXX-XXXX

Please let me know immediately if there is additional information needed to implement my opt-out request. Finally, I would like to ask for written confirmation that you have received and processed this notice.

Sincerely, XXXXXX XXXX

qdjj0IJ.png

off topic wait a minute, that area code is familiar 😎:ph34r:


| Whoosh - The Airplane and Airline Thread |

:x@Dan Castellaneta x @pinksnowbirdie || Jake x Tyler :x 52ever :x
Current Rig:
Spoiler

}} Titania  *December 22, 2017* {{

~Ryzen 7 1700 - Asus TUF B350 - Cryorig H7 - Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 16GB @ 2400MHz - XFX Double Dissipation RX 470 4GB - SanDisk SSDPlus 120GB - Toshiba 1TB HDD (2.5" 5400rpm) - Cooler Master Silencio 352 - LG DVD/CD Drive - EVGA SuperNova G2 550W - Windows 10 Education - Logitech G610 (MX Browns) - Logitech G603 - LG 24MP59HT-P~

Planned Upgrades:

Spoiler

}} R.U.D.I (Rebrand and Mild Refresh of Titania) *On-going 2019* {{

~Ryzen 7 1700 - Asus TUF B350 - Cryorig H7 - Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 16GB - XFX Double Dissipation RX 470 4GB - Samsung 860 Evo 500GB - Seagate 2TB Barracuda HDD - Cooler Master Silencio 352 - LG DVD/CD Drive - EVGA SuperNova G2 550W - Windows 10 Education - Logitech G513 Carbon - Logitech G603~

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

If i opt out will this Delete my Discord account/Can i send that email without having my account Suspended/Deleted/Inaccesible?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Yun4xGaming said:

If i opt out will this Delete my Discord account/Can i send that email without having my account Suspended/Deleted/Inaccesible?

I don't think they can punish for that lol


| Whoosh - The Airplane and Airline Thread |

:x@Dan Castellaneta x @pinksnowbirdie || Jake x Tyler :x 52ever :x
Current Rig:
Spoiler

}} Titania  *December 22, 2017* {{

~Ryzen 7 1700 - Asus TUF B350 - Cryorig H7 - Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 16GB @ 2400MHz - XFX Double Dissipation RX 470 4GB - SanDisk SSDPlus 120GB - Toshiba 1TB HDD (2.5" 5400rpm) - Cooler Master Silencio 352 - LG DVD/CD Drive - EVGA SuperNova G2 550W - Windows 10 Education - Logitech G610 (MX Browns) - Logitech G603 - LG 24MP59HT-P~

Planned Upgrades:

Spoiler

}} R.U.D.I (Rebrand and Mild Refresh of Titania) *On-going 2019* {{

~Ryzen 7 1700 - Asus TUF B350 - Cryorig H7 - Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 16GB - XFX Double Dissipation RX 470 4GB - Samsung 860 Evo 500GB - Seagate 2TB Barracuda HDD - Cooler Master Silencio 352 - LG DVD/CD Drive - EVGA SuperNova G2 550W - Windows 10 Education - Logitech G513 Carbon - Logitech G603~

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, EMC said:

Why does discord to make it pain to opt out? It should just be a option in client/interface.

 

This is why I never go on board discord.

You never go on discord because you predicted they would do this? You go lottery numbers too?


CPU i7 6700 Cooling Cryorig H7 Motherboard MSI H110i Pro AC RAM Kingston HyperX Fury 16GB DDR4 2133 GPU XFX GTR RX 480 Case Fractal Design Define Mini C Storage Trascend SSD370S 256GB + WD Black 320GB + Sandisk Ultra II 480GB + WD Blue 1TB PSU EVGA GS 550 Display Nixeus Vue24B FreeSync 144 Hz Monitor (VESA mounted) Keyboard Aorus K3 Mechanical Keyboard Mouse Logitech G402 OS Windows 10 Home 64 bit

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Pbr38 said:

Thank you very much for the easy template, I've seen a fair number of copy-pasted warnings but nobody was including a simple email template to write to opt out.

 

I don't speak legalese and subsequently probably wouldst have been able to write my own email.

 

Once again, Thank you for your fantastic contribution.

Thank someone from one of my discord that ripped it from someone off reddit :P

1 hour ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

off topic wait a minute, that area code is familiar 😎:ph34r:

Ain't mine ;)

 


I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play MTGA & watch anime at 720p...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee! The Cassette Deck!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Buy VPN

×