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AluminiumTech

[Update]Amazon institutes $15 minimum wage for all US employees AND eliminates monthly bonuses and Stock Grants

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@AluminiumTech Here it is: https://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/Amazon.com/jobs/Warehouse-Operative-561a1d1b7e79721f?sjdu=Wpcylqv7Z4Ebs3NEZ9Kpyk6-xYhffJD8sDpGutV0vc2uaZyfEEjrPUTS_JwAnaKt-coL0gpR8IsXfz_E2Hfhp4WmrxQg5_kw_s3ns1dSEro0Nm_SJd9fWSAsMFSKnXIb&tk=1cp892n3t9nd3803&vjs=3

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  • £8.00 per hour (days) to £9.76 per hour (nights). Rising to £9.50 per hour (days) to £11.26 per hour (nights) from November 1st 2018.
  • Overtime rates between £12.00 per hour and £16.00 per hour. Rising to £14.25 to £19.00 per hour from November 1st 2018.

 

 


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Large corporations should be paying more to their employees. Raising the minimum wage would do more harm to brick and mortar/mom-pop stores that can't really afford or don't have the scope that Amazon does. I'm all for a minimum wage increase for larger corporations, but not for small independents (even though quite a few of them already pay more than Amazon per hour). 

 

This is simply a chess play for Bezos. Eliminate competition by increasing the single highest budget item (man-hours) and swallow the newly released customers. 

 

Also, "eliminating bonuses"? Are we supposed to feel sorry that Amazon won't be giving an extra $100 to an employee on a yearly or quarterly basis? Seriously? He'll make that bonus up in a week or two with this pay-raise. 


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Something people must realize is the percentage of people that are negatively impacted by this wage increase is very small. Those who will be losing stock options and benefits and the like are the vast minority of Amazon employees. This wage increase is a good thing by any objective measure. 

 

As for the concerns about the minimum wage increase potentially doing more harm than good......there are a few things you must understand. 

 

The most notable of which is that US wages have not gone up relative to productivity and inflation. Wages should be at about $21 an hour. Corporations and bad politicians have insured that people are used to low wages and fear what could happen if people were paid what they should be paid. 

 

The second issue with people concered about the minimum wage is job security. Automation is taking over, and eventually the US and other nations will have to move to a Universal Basic income otherwise the world economy will be unable to function. 

 

Here are some interesting videos that you should watch if you would like to here this from people with a little more info on the topic:

 

This comment was created with an economic mindset, not a political one. Though a distinction between the two is rarely possible. 


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1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

Wages should be at about $21 an hour.

No, just... no. Living wage is 18.21 Canadian in Toronto. If you cant afford to live in a big city dont live there. 21 dollars an hour is absolutely abhorrent. My grandpas butcher shop almost closed down when our minimum wage was hiked to 14 dollars, I couldnt imagine what would happen to small business if it was hiked to 27. It's like people want corporatism


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Just now, Clanscorpia said:

No, just... no. Living wage is 18.21 Canadian in Toronto. If you cant afford to live in a big city dont live there. 21 dollars an hour is absolutely abhorrent. My grandpas butcher shop almost closed down when our minimum wage was hiked to 14 dollars, I couldnt imagine what would happen to small business if it was hiked to 27. It's like people want corporatism

I’m talking US dollars. Not Canadian dollars. 

 

In the US the federal and many state minimum wages are set to $7.25. Not a living wage. 

 


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If people want a living wage, they need to not make a career out of a minimum wage job.

 

If labor costs go up, something must be adjusted to balance. Whether it is eliminating positions, eliminating employee benefits, discontinuing services, raising prices, or some other way it must balance so the business is still profitable.


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18 minutes ago, Razor Blade said:

If people want a living wage, they need to not make a career out of a minimum wage job.

 

If labor costs go up, something must be adjusted to balance. Whether it is eliminating positions, eliminating employee benefits, discontinuing services, raising prices, or some other way it must balance so the business is still profitable.

This, people have only their own laziness to thabk for not advancing in life. Personally the thought of automation becoming widespread in the food service industry sounds glorious, maybe then I'll finally get my damn food the way I ordered it...

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39 minutes ago, Clanscorpia said:

No, just... no. Living wage is 18.21 Canadian in Toronto. If you cant afford to live in a big city dont live there. 21 dollars an hour is absolutely abhorrent. My grandpas butcher shop almost closed down when our minimum wage was hiked to 14 dollars, I couldnt imagine what would happen to small business if it was hiked to 27. It's like people want corporatism

Something people seem to miss with wage hikes is how small businesses and self-starters cope with it; just because a giant ass corporation like Amazon can handle it doesn't mean a small mom-and-pop shop can, and they usually can't if they're incredibly dramatic.


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2 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Something people seem to miss with wage hikes is how small businesses and self-starters cope with it; just because a giant ass corporation like Amazon can handle it doesn't mean a small mom-and-pop shop can, and they usually can't if they're incredibly dramatic.

Which is why a tiered system is a good approach. Raise the rate for everyone to about $10/hour and increase it based on how many are employed. You'll eventually reach equilibrium between how many jobs are needed to fulfill all daily needs and consumer spending to affirm it. 


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9 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

This, people have only their own laziness to thabk for not advancing in life. Personally the thought of automation becoming widespread in the food service industry sounds glorious, maybe then I'll finally get my damn food the way I ordered it...

Funny you should mention that... There was a news story not that long ago about self service kiosks popping up at fast food restaurants like McDonald's. I wonder how many cashiers will lose their job if $15/hr federal minimum wage becomes a thing?

 

6 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Something people seem to miss with wage hikes is how small businesses and self-starters cope with it; just because a giant ass corporation like Amazon can handle it doesn't mean a small mom-and-pop shop can, and they usually can't if they're incredibly dramatic.

Not just small shops either... paid internships and other entry level positions at larger businesses will likely suffer if companies have to shell out $15/hr... Those many entry level positions could turn into fewer "experience required" positions real quick...


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23 minutes ago, Razor Blade said:

Funny you should mention that... There was a news story not that long ago about self service kiosks popping up at fast food restaurants like McDonald's

 

Not just small shops either... paid internships and other entry level positions at larger businesses will likely suffer if companies have to shell out $15/hr... Those many entry level positions could turn into fewer "experience required" positions real quick...

They were in the Fort Lauderdale area when I was there and I always went to them. Now only if I could get a machine to make them for me...

The thing that kills me is when people that are for a higher minimum wage say crap like "Well if they can't provide a "living wage" then they shouldn't be in business"...because you know what is worse than making a low wage? Not making one at all because your employer went under due to having to pay people double the amount for menial labor that middle schoolers could do. I honestly have no words for people who think they're arguing for the "little guy" when all they're doing is screwing them over. Do they honestly think that forcing everyone to pay double the amount as a minimum will help people that have managed to somehow not develop any marketable skills their entire lives?

 

And don't give me any shit about how they're "disenfranchised" and can't get ahead because they're too poor to afford to go college or whatever. Nearly every town has some kind of public library with things full of useful information called books as well as internet access and it's all for FREE! I used to work in a call center making $10 an hour, I didn't like the lifestyle it gave me so I started messing around with computers and LEARNED something useful which got me switched to a different department in that call center doing a level one help desk role which gave me a whopping $4 raise. I continued to learn more and got hired by a different company as a desktop technician making $22.50 an hour. I have never stopped learning and won't ever stop. That's the only way you can get ahead in life. When I go out to lunch and see adults working at the local Wendy's I can't help but wonder how they've managed to stay in that position.

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46 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Which is why a tiered system is a good approach. Raise the rate for everyone to about $10/hour and increase it based on how many are employed. You'll eventually reach equilibrium between how many jobs are needed to fulfill all daily needs and consumer spending to affirm it. 

then why would you want to work for a small buisness? Whats the point if you know you'll get paid less. 

 

1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

I’m talking US dollars. Not Canadian dollars. 

 

In the US the federal and many state minimum wages are set to $7.25. Not a living wage. 

 

Of course 7.25 is too low, but 21? Thats ridiculous. Increasing ours by 30% had a big impact on growth in Ontario. I couldnt imagine a 200% increase. 


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7 minutes ago, Clanscorpia said:

Of course 7.25 is too low, but 21? Thats ridiculous.

Well the $21 is based on the productivity gains since the 1960s. Based on inflation it would be ~$11. Meaning that the USAs federal minimum wage is artificially low. Further in that video it was found that increasing the min wage had very little negative effects. Sure if you change it too much too quickly you will have a problem, but if you do it responsibly there are only upsides. 


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1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

Well the $21 is based on the productivity gains since the 1960s. Based on inflation it would be ~$11. Meaning that the USAs federal minimum wage is artificially low. Further in that video it was found that increasing the min wage had very little negative effects. Sure if you change it too much too quickly you will have a problem, but if you do it responsibly there are only upsides. 

Of course, but you saying $21 threw your argument off. 


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Just now, Clanscorpia said:

Of course, but you saying $21 threw your argument off. 

Ehh, maybe for you. Productivity and inflation are really what you should based the minimum wage off of. 

 

Regardless many states are stepping up and going to $15 an hour. 


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1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

Ehh, maybe for you. Productivity and inflation are really what you should based the minimum wage off of. 

 

Regardless many states are stepping up and going to $15 an hour. 

Terrible decision, but you are a snowflake and blocked me so you’ll never see this. $15 minimum wage does nothing but fuck over poor people.

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56 minutes ago, Clanscorpia said:

then why would you want to work for a small buisness? Whats the point if you know you'll get paid less. 

Well to be fair, not everyone can get into large businesses, there're always people who'll be rejected.

 

On the other hand a tiered system can be gamed, just like the tax system. Even though I think it is a better idea than what is currently being pushed,  "small" businesses would just skirt the utter maximum limit of the criteria for it to be called "small".

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5 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Well, they could have just kept the benefits and increased their internalized minimum wage. That way nobody would have been negatively affected.

Amazon would.

6 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

More money is always better but advocating for a higher federal minimum wage could probably do more harm than good so I hope Amazon drops it.

"Could" implies it may do more harm or it may do more good, so you should withhold whether you hope they drop it or not until knowing better :P 

 

3 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

Large corporations should be paying more to their employees. Raising the minimum wage would do more harm to brick and mortar/mom-pop stores that can't really afford or don't have the scope that Amazon does. I'm all for a minimum wage increase for larger corporations, but not for small independents (even though quite a few of them already pay more than Amazon per hour). 

That's unclear. Small shops sell to people, and how much they sell, and at which prices, depends on those people's income. Higher wages would shift how revenue is split, and based on who your customers are, your sales and margins (calculated pre-wage increase) could increase, by less or by more than the increase in costs due to higher wages.

Besides, isn't "small business can't pay as much as large business for similar tasks" an argument against the desirability of small businesses?

 

2 hours ago, Razor Blade said:

If people want a living wage, they need to not make a career out of a minimum wage job.

And what's your plan for substituting the tasks performed by minimum wage workers? And don't tell me "it's just for 16-year olds and a few years at the beginning of your career", because if that was the case, then already we wouldn't have nearly as many minimum-wage and near-minimum-wage workers.

It's a less sophisticated version of the same problem of discussing "the impact on small shops": it ignores general equilibrium. "Educate yourself, follow your dreams, start a disruptive company!" sounds like great advice to give to an individual, but it's pretty much nonsense in the aggregate: we all like clean bathrooms. Whatever advice you give one person to not be the one to clean them doesn't change the fact that we desperately need someone to do it.

 

 

36 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

$15 minimum wage does nothing but fuck over poor people.

I doubt you have evidence to back that up.

Some people will argue that no minimum wage is the best minimum wage on principle. However, it is obvious by now that a non-zero minimum wage at the very least is not harmful (due to the available information on different levels of minimum wages across states and across countries). At the same time, it is also obvious that a $1,000,000/hour minimum wage is a stupid idea (I'm not sure why is equally obvious to everyone, in other words, what exactly would go wrong. But let's leave the details aside). Therefore, there must be a threshold value at which the minimum wage goes from helpful or at-least-not-harmful to harmful. Whether that threshold is $15, or $5, or $420TM is a quantitative question that I suspect no one in this forum is particularly well-equipped to answer.

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4 hours ago, Arika S said:

I'm not sure how i feel about this.

 

On one hand a higher minimum wage is good...but at the expense of benefits if not great.

 

They should give their employees the option for what suits them best

  1. higher wage, no benefits.
  2. Keep the same that they have

You know, that's a lovely sentiment, but you'll get the people that opted for the higher wage finding out that others are getting bonuses, and then more complaints will happen, regardless of how open you make the option selection process.  Easier all around to standardize.

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39 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

And what's your plan for substituting the tasks performed by minimum wage workers? And don't tell me "it's just for 16-year olds and a few years at the beginning of your career", because if that was the case, then already we wouldn't have nearly as many minimum-wage and near-minimum-wage workers.

It's a less sophisticated version of the same problem of discussing "the impact on small shops": it ignores general equilibrium. "Educate yourself, follow your dreams, start a disruptive company!" sounds like great advice to give to an individual, but it's pretty much nonsense in the aggregate: we all like clean bathrooms. Whatever advice you give one person to not be the one to clean them doesn't change the fact that we desperately need someone to do it.

So are you saying we need to keep the individual down for the good of the populous? Those jobs would still be done even at the current wage. Some people are perfectly happy making what they make. There are also people who are partially retired or maybe a husband or wife getting a second job to pay off some debt. You can make some pretty decent money delivering pizza part time as an income boost...a lot more than minimum wage too...

 

If that still isn't good enough? The company can always offer MORE than minimum wage without political arm twisting...which a lot of companies already do all over the USA. Not everyone wants to dig ditches in the hot sun all day for $7.25/hr. So companies will pay more. Generally the biggest question a company will ask is will that person be able to make the company more money than they cost the company. If the answer is no then why should that company hire that person at that wage? They aren't a charity, they're a company. They're in the business of making money.


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7 hours ago, NowakVulpix said:

If a company can increase wages to $15/hour across the board without any major issues propping up from doing so, then perhaps there's no reason to not increase the minimum wage to $15/hour after all.

Literally the richest and most valuable company on earth.....

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4 hours ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

I love how people made this a debate about minimum wage, which was not designed to be a living wage.

Well I mean that is something that apparently Amazon is now lobbying for so I'd say it's a relevant tangent.

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9 hours ago, Lurick said:

Didn't they also cut out bonuses and stock benefits for all hourly employees when they did this?

 

 

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/3/17934194/amazon-minimum-wage-raise-stock-options-bonus-warehouse

People complained they weren't making enough and noe they are making 15 dollars an hour at minimum which is actually alot of money compared to many other places that hire where I live. Now people are complaining that they don't give the benefits they use to? You can't please anyone I guess. 

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6 hours ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

I love how people made this a debate about minimum wage, which was not designed to be a living wage.

I'm confused.

 

If minimum wage isn't designed to be a living wage then what the hell are they doing? Many people have to live off of minimum wage whether a state has a higher one than the federal government or not.


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