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Complete HT gaming experience

Hello everyone!

 

I'm still waiting for hdmi 2.1 to release to buy new gear and finally be able to game at 120hz 4k 12bpc 4:4:4 HDR VRR ?  and watch movies on an OLED TV!

To get in as fast as possible, I'm already planning the upgrade route I should take when sh!* hits the fan.

 

What I definitely need:

OLED TV

New Gaming Rig

7.1 Speakers

 

What I'm not sure I need:

AV Receiver

 

 

Atm I'm using a 5.1 surround setup by connecting it with an active subwoofer (Logitech Z-906, shit, I know) to my sound card (7.1 capable). Oh, and I want to get Lossless audio out of it (DTS HD MA, Dolby whatever its called).

Possibilities:

  • Get an active subwoofer and connect 7 good speaker to it and then connect it to my sound card. -> Do you know of any active subs like that?
  • Get an old 7.1 AVR and connect the PC to it, 2 setups possible:
    • GPU to TV via hdmi 2.1, MOBO (integrated graphics) to AVR via hdmi (whatever version) for audio only.
    • GPU to TV via Display Port to HDMI adapter (does this work with 120hz 4k 12bpc 4:4:4 HDR VRR ? ?) and GPU to AVR via hdmi for audio only.
    • Bonus: Does anyone know of a way to send the AVR 7.1 lossless audio without the use of hdmi?
  • Bite the bullet and also buy an hdmi 2.1 AVR.
    • Does the AVR with video passthrough introduce any input lag?
    • When in video passthrough mode, do things like Deep Color, BT.2020, HDR etc.. (anything that makes something with the image) matter? Or could I just buy the cheapest hdmi 2.1 AVR for audio purposes only?

Everything needs to be at least capable of transmitting hdmi 2.1, as the weakest member sets the standard . . .

 

Very interested in how you do it to get the best out of both worlds (graphics and audio). Thankful for every help/answer I get ?

 

Edit: 7.1 Lossless audio to the AVR without hdmi?

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I'm honestly going to not try and decipher what you're trying to say and just say a few things.

1. If you want 7.1 you need an AVR unless you plan on just running PC desktop speakers.

2. There's some higher end or potentially older 7.1 that have individual 3.5mm audio jacks for audio input, which would solve an issue with HDMI.

3. The HDMI issue. HDMI and every receiver on the market doesn't support anything above 60hz.

4. The other HDMI issue. HDMI is a digital signal and for some stupid god forsaken reason requires a video signal, so you can't just send audio, Windows will always see the receiver as a monitor.

5. S/PDIF was born in 1998 and should've died around 10 years ago. It's inferior to HDMI and Displayport in that it can't do uncompressed 5.1 and won't do 7.1.

 

 

So, I have a triple screen setup on my PC with an AVR and I just duplicate the AVR on a side monitor since only my main center is 144hz. Otherwise it's just another "monitor" desktop that you can't see or really use, but sometimes Windows likes to just fuck with you and throw programs and windows over to that monitor, then it's a game of try and randomly click around to grab the window or hit a button. As a slight aside, any time I use NV surround I can't duplicate the AVR to anything and Nvidia keeps setting it as primary for no fucking reason despite me constantly making the main monitors... the main monitor.

Congrats Nvidia, thanks to you every time I try and use your shit it's 15 minutes of fucking around trying to get a lucky click.

 

So anyways, unless new (And probably quite expensive) high Hz AVRs have been released, you'll need to run it separate. I tried on my setup to plug it into the HDMI port of my monitor which caused Windows to freak the hell out and constantly just switch between inputs. It's a real bitch honestly, and any time I want to use the PS4 I have to physically swap the cables. I kind of want to get a 4th monitor just so it would be easier.

As to getting audio to the AVR and high Hz video to the TV/monitor you'd have to use separate outputs from your PC, since using something like a splitter just takes the lowest common denominators and applies that to everything.

 

I hope you can hear my enthusiasm about the current state of Windows HDMI/AVR support and the fact that an updated S/PDIF type cable could obliterate any and all issues, or AVRs could just include the discrete 3.5 jacks, but they don't.

#Muricaparrotgang

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Thanks for the answers.

 

Quote

So, I have a triple screen setup on my PC with an AVR and I just duplicate the AVR on a side monitor since only my main center is 144hz.

Did you use hdmi to the avr and Dp to the monitors? How would you do it if you had 2 devices that only have hdmi inputs and no DP??

 

 

In short:

I want to connect the PC to an AVR without using the ONLY hdmi Port I got on the Graphics card.

The AVR only supports hdmi 1.3 (old standard, but can transport lossless 7.1 surround sound).

 

I've read somewhere, that all Display Port ports on newer GPUs are actually D++ (Display Port Dual mode), which output both DP and HDMI (with lossless sound). All you need is a DP to hdmi PASSIVE adapter (to the avr). PC Display Port -> Adapter to hdmi -> AVR

 

Can someone confirm this is true and will work in a multi monitor setup (2 PC Monitors, 1 TV, and a 4th "monitor" being the AVR)?

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it would be far easier and more reliable if you would directly connect the PC to the TV and just use an HDMI audio return channel to send the audio to the AVR without passing through the video.

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How would you do this?

PC -- Audio+Video(hdmi)     --> TV

PC <-- Audio   (hdmi)             -- TV

PC -- Audio (what connection?)--> AVR

 

Besides, ARC currently only supports lossy 5.1 audio.

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21 hours ago, WhoNose said:

Thanks for the answers.

 

Did you use hdmi to the avr and Dp to the monitors? How would you do it if you had 2 devices that only have hdmi inputs and no DP??

 

 

In short:

I want to connect the PC to an AVR without using the ONLY hdmi Port I got on the Graphics card.

The AVR only supports hdmi 1.3 (old standard, but can transport lossless 7.1 surround sound).

 

I've read somewhere, that all Display Port ports on newer GPUs are actually D++ (Display Port Dual mode), which output both DP and HDMI (with lossless sound). All you need is a DP to hdmi PASSIVE adapter (to the avr). PC Display Port -> Adapter to hdmi -> AVR

 

Can someone confirm this is true and will work in a multi monitor setup (2 PC Monitors, 1 TV, and a 4th "monitor" being the AVR)?

My 2 side monitors are HDMI and my center is DVI-D.

To show the complicated-ish setup I have

PC -> monitors + AVR.

PS4 ----HDMI----/

Any time I want to use my PS4 I unplug my DVI and plug in the HDMI from the AVR since there's no way to just send audio.

I could do the same with HDMI on my main monitor, but I'd have to use lower 60hz (since it's an older and cheaper monitor) and still have to swap cables. I just duplicate the desktop on my side monitor and AVR so I don't have an inaccessible screen.

 

DisplayPort to HDMI adapter/cables work fine, I use them since my monitors don't have DisplayPort but my GPU does. It'll transfer the audio just fine. Or it should, I'm sure there's somehow some shit adapters out there.

16 hours ago, Pixel5 said:

it would be far easier and more reliable if you would directly connect the PC to the TV and just use an HDMI audio return channel to send the audio to the AVR without passing through the video.

This is also an option, but I haven't used it since none of the TV's around me have ARC support. You say it only does Lossy 5.1 and I really wouldn't know.

So you can do PC to AVR via HDMI or DisplayPort, but it needs to be separate from the high Hz screen or you'll be limited to 60hz. Just set the AVR to default audio in Windows. If you have a 60Hz screen you're connecting to I'd just hook the AVR up to that for simplicity's sake.

 

So you'd have a layout more like this

PC -->monitors

PC -->AVR

AVR --> Nothing or 60Hz monitor

 

If you have other things like a PS4 you'd have to run it through the AVR, then to the TV. I have no idea if a TV would handle two PC inputs (One direct from PC and the other from AVR) any better than my monitor, cause it sure as shit didn't work for me. If you're doing something like that you might have to do like I do and just manually switch cables.

 

There would be 2 pretty easy solutions to this problem,

1 is an updated S/PDIF interface/format that ONLY carries lossless digital audio, not video like HDMI and DP

2 is a high Hz AVR passthrough.

Neither of these exist, but like I said before there's a few AVRs that have the 3 analog 3.5 jacks.

#Muricaparrotgang

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Yes, came to the same conclusion..

So any old hdmi 1.3 AVR will work for 7.1 lossless sound, it just has to come from either a DP++ to hdmi via passive adapter, gpu hdmi or motherboard hdmi output.

This will work well on a PC, which has multiple outputs on the GPU, but not on a console. Should I say it? PC Mas . . . ?

 

 

Thank you @JZStudios for your help!

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12 hours ago, WhoNose said:

Yes, came to the same conclusion..

So any old hdmi 1.3 AVR will work for 7.1 lossless sound, it just has to come from either a DP++ to hdmi via passive adapter, gpu hdmi or motherboard hdmi output.

This will work well on a PC, which has multiple outputs on the GPU, but not on a console. Should I say it? PC Mas . . . ?

 

 

Thank you @JZStudios for your help!

Why would a console need multiple video outputs though? There's no reason in terms of productivity and it doesn't have the power to run at multimonitor gaming.

They already have S/PDIF out, I do blame Sony for not updating it though.

#Muricaparrotgang

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Before I waste a half hour of my life typing this up. What is your budget?..... why do you insist on having every port 2.1? Have you been to a store or listened to different speaker setups with different media? (Lossless, mp4, different cabling (digital hdmi, spidf, 3.5)?

 

I can give you a 3.1 system that will knock the socks off of a shit 7.1 system. Idk exactly what you’re looking to do here. What room size are we talking? Wood/carpet floors? Ceiling height? Air flow for components?

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On 10/6/2018 at 11:17 PM, JZStudios said:

Why would a console need multiple video outputs though? There's no reason in terms of productivity and it doesn't have the power to run at multimonitor gaming.

They already have S/PDIF out, I do blame Sony for not updating it though.

Well, some UHD players had 2 hdmi outs, one for picture & sound and one only for sound (because people don't always want to upgrade their avr).

 

On 10/6/2018 at 11:20 PM, TheFlyingTraut said:

Before I waste a half hour of my life typing this up. What is your budget?..... why do you insist on having every port 2.1? Have you been to a store or listened to different speaker setups with different media? (Lossless, mp4, different cabling (digital hdmi, spidf, 3.5)?

 

I can give you a 3.1 system that will knock the socks off of a shit 7.1 system. Idk exactly what you’re looking to do here. What room size are we talking? Wood/carpet floors? Ceiling height? Air flow for components?

As I don't care as much for sound as I do for picture quality, the budget is relatively low. I was thinking of +/- 1k, but that can change (waiting for the hdmi 2.1 and DP 1.5 release, as for me, 4k is finished when these hit). I know a stereo system can blow out a surround system, but I really like the directional sound (No, I don't like soundbars). I got a pair of studio headphones and dolby atmos for headphones (does a really good job of making surround sources stereo, almost like it's binaural). Wearing headphones all the time gets on my nerves.

 

I'll just wait it out and will look for a location where the volume of a HT won't be much of a problem.

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Hi guys, hey I just wrote a guide on how to do what the OP wants to do. All be it I didn't include an audio portion. I can if you like.

 

There a few things stated here that are incorrect. Much depends on the components you have selected. HDMI 2.0 supports 4k and Atmos as does DP 1.2. As for audio, if all you need is video just don't use the HDMI for audio, you can select what audio you want, this is done via your pc sound settings. I run my audio setup in 2.1ch mode for my PC via USB from my PC to a PS Audio DAC and a Krell Amplifier and M&K sub.

 

All the new Denon Receivers can do all of this very easily, and cheap too, if your really wanting 7.1 audio or greater and all the Video you could desire.

 

On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 11:34 PM, JZStudios said:

S/PDIF

 does not support video

 

Also, why not use a monitor with multiple inputs? Both LG and Acer make 4k 43 inch units that can handle 4 or more inputs. You simply select which device from the monitors input selector.

 

EDIT: One other thing, most M/B's have numerous different sound output options. My set up has 7 options- 2 different HDMI's one from Intel and one from Nvidia, USB, Optical, Coaxial (RCA) and the onboard Realtek. That is 7 available audio options for my set up. Most M/B's today have the same if not more. Not to mention if you wanted you could add a Creative, M-Audio , or other brand.

 

Hope this helps.

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5 hours ago, kodi41 said:

does not support video

Yep, knew that.

 

Hate to say it, but you don't much know what you're talking about. I guess you clarified the HDMI and DP audio/video format we already knew... He needs to run HDMI/DP to get the surround audio uncompressed. You don't have this problem with 2.1 as it already has inputs via USB or some form of analog jack. AVRs do not unless you're looking at higher end models. Beyond that, any form of audio interface or connection (provided it isn't solely mono) supports uncompressed stereo.

 

You can't use a monitor or TV with multiple inputs for reasons I've already explained. Windows reads through the AVR and displays the monitors name, so Windows is getting the information of 2 of the same monitors being reported and it freaks the hell out.

 

We've already come to the conclusion (of which I informed him) that he would need to run an HDMI/DP to AVR, and a second one to the TV since AVRs only pass through 60hz.

Once again, he doesn't want S/PDIF, and RCA, USB, 3.5 and any other MB output isn't supported by AVRs. Even old models before HDMI don't support those.

#Muricaparrotgang

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29 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Yep, knew that.

 

Hate to say it, but you don't much know what you're talking about. I guess you clarified the HDMI and DP audio/video format we already knew... He needs to run HDMI/DP to get the surround audio uncompressed. You don't have this problem with 2.1 as it already has inputs via USB or some form of analog jack. AVRs do not unless you're looking at higher end models. Beyond that, any form of audio interface or connection (provided it isn't solely mono) supports uncompressed stereo.

 

You can't use a monitor or TV with multiple inputs for reasons I've already explained. Windows reads through the AVR and displays the monitors name, so Windows is getting the information of 2 of the same monitors being reported and it freaks the hell out.

 

We've already come to the conclusion (of which I informed him) that he would need to run an HDMI/DP to AVR, and a second one to the TV since AVRs only pass through 60hz.

Once again, he doesn't want S/PDIF, and RCA, USB, 3.5 and any other MB output isn't supported by AVRs. Even old models before HDMI don't support those.

LOL, dude I am going to stop responding to your posts- you are an angry person. Perhaps I mis-read you when you stated : "1 is an updated S/PDIF interface/format that ONLY carries lossless digital audio, not video like HDMI and DP"

 

I know for a fact you are indeed- WRONG. You need to learn what you are talking about and how to set windows up correctly in accordance with the equipment you have. I own the stuff which I speak of, actual experience- not crap that you have googled. I have well over 40k in HT/Audio gear and lots of stuff sitting around doing nothing. In my new post I will break it down for you why in fact you are completely incorrect and shoveling misinformation. Till then have a great day.

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Please close this thread. Anyone who finds this via any search engine is gonna facepalm haha.

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15 hours ago, kodi41 said:

LOL, dude I am going to stop responding to your posts- you are an angry person. Perhaps I mis-read you when you stated : "1 is an updated S/PDIF interface/format that ONLY carries lossless digital audio, not video like HDMI and DP"

 

I know for a fact you are indeed- WRONG. You need to learn what you are talking about and how to set windows up correctly in accordance with the equipment you have. I own the stuff which I speak of, actual experience- not crap that you have googled. I have well over 40k in HT/Audio gear and lots of stuff sitting around doing nothing. In my new post I will break it down for you why in fact you are completely incorrect and shoveling misinformation. Till then have a great day.

Then you must be misreading or didn't read my posts. I was very clear, I also own all the equipment with the same setup this guy is trying to use, along with doing my own research. I never said S/PDIF carries video, in fact I explicitly stated multiple times that it only carries compressed 5.1.

 

And yes, you absolutely misread that, because I also clearly stated that if they UPDATED the S/PDIF standard to ONLY carry audio none of this fuckery would have to be involved, but they won't because it's 20 years old (released in 1998) and they just don't give a damn because uncompressed 7.1 is now supported by HDMI and DP, even though it causes issues.

 

So yeah, maybe I'm angry because you're accusing me of being incompetent when you managed to fool yourself by not reading what I clearly wrote.

#Muricaparrotgang

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