Europe Parliament accelerating transition to Electric Cars

GoldenLag · October 4, 2018

31 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

I keep getting the years wrong for breathing on the planet lol... but it is possible, will we survive the transition is the real question unless we find a way of mass conversion....

I must have lost you at some point. Why are you talking about terraforming mars?

Egg-Roll · October 4, 2018

9 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

I must have lost you at some point. Why are you talking about terraforming mars?

this initial quote I replied too:

2 hours ago, asus killer said:

As much as you can imagine mars with trees and animals running wild, that's an utopia.

Then your quote:

56 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Just asking, do you know the state of Mars? Im also going to ask for the state of Venus.

Do you know what states our earth have been through?

Its gonna take a lot longer for us Humans to do that.

Also just a little fyi I think the crazy fools are planning a manned mission to Venus as well... Tho I would trust the Russians for that more than Americans They at least landed stuff on it...

GoldenLag · October 4, 2018

46 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

this initial quote I replied too:

then why did you quote me?

47 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Also just a little fyi I think the crazy fools are planning a manned mission to Venus as well... Tho I would trust the Russians for that more than Americans They at least landed stuff on it...

there have been concepts thrown around, but nothing else as far as i know. also its not happening for quite a few reasons.

you cant land on Venus without dying, so what purpose would humans serve?
landing is stupidly hard, so why go there
if we want a space station, why on Venus would we have it there? there isnt anything to gain.
if we want to do research we send unmanned missions, not only are they cheaper, but will perform the same tasks.

Egg-Roll · October 4, 2018

6 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

then why did you quote me?

there have been concepts thrown around, but nothing else as far as i know. also its not happening for quite a few reasons.

you cant land on Venus without dying, so what purpose would humans serve?

landing is stupidly hard, so why go there

if we want a space station, why on Venus would we have it there? there isnt anything to gain.

if we want to do research we send unmanned missions, not only are they cheaper, but will perform the same tasks.

Because you quoted me?

Reasons to go to Venus:

They would be living in the clouds I think during said time due to the atmosphere, I remember watching something about it but I can't recall the name of it...

Get more done than machines (sending 10 machines over 20 years vs 5 people for 5 years+10 for planning building etc), plus if one machine fails it could take years to get a new one.

GoldenLag · October 4, 2018

2 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Because you quoted me?

ah i just reealized. i thought that two paragraphs that werent connected were connected.

3 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

They would be living in the clouds I think during said time due to the atmosphere, I remember watching something about it but I can't recall the name of it...

Get more done than machines (sending 10 machines over 20 years vs 5 people for 5 years+10 for planning building etc), plus if one machine fails it could take years to get a new one.

airships are a literal pain, also they would need resupply missions of food.

what would they do in the atmospere? take samples of air? they can allready do that remotely using spectral imaging. also sending people is veeeery expencive. building using what? resources? those would need to be sent as there arent any reliable resource depotes. also people want to return, which just makes it even more expencive.

also years isnt a good image to use. there are launch windows, and that is what we are working from. that is one of the reasons we dont send probes to multiplanet missions anymore.

probes last a long time, and eventually they will fail, but they are sent to do a few tasks, after that it is just bonus. Unlike a drone we cant discard a humen once the mission is done.

also there is a problem with the lack of a magnetic field. also the rotation of Venus isnt helping

i should stop im going way off topic now

Egg-Roll · October 4, 2018

9 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

airships are a literal pain, also they would need resupply missions of food.

what would they do in the atmospere? take samples of air? they can allready do that remotely using spectral imaging. also sending people is veeeery expencive. building using what? resources? those would need to be sent as there arent any reliable resource depotes. also people want to return, which just makes it even more expencive.

also years isnt a good image to use. there are launch windows, and that is what we are working from. that is one of the reasons we dont send probes to multiplanet missions anymore.

probes last a long time, and eventually they will fail, but they are sent to do a few tasks, after that it is just bonus. Unlike a drone we cant discard a humen once the mission is done.

also there is a problem with the lack of a magnetic field. also the rotation of Venus isnt helping

I don't remember all the details, but I think it was to get more results faster or for a trial test to Mars. The airship is for energy and temperature reasons (it's cooler in the atmosphere). I can see them converting a manned mission into a long term air mission with robots however if it becomes practical enough.

Jtalk4456 · October 4, 2018

come on guys, i've got a topic almost to page 10! Prime wan show material XD

Egg-Roll · October 4, 2018

5 minutes ago, Jtalk4456 said:

come on guys, i've got a topic almost to page 10! Prime wan show material XD

You mean the NAW show Ever since Techlinked I only watch it for the funnies and when James is on Mostly for James...

Jtalk4456 · October 4, 2018

6 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

You mean the NAW show Ever since Techlinked I only watch it for the funnies and when James is on Mostly for James...

true but they still have 2 or 3 main stories if they're big enough

Jtalk4456 · October 4, 2018

6 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

You mean the NAW show Ever since Techlinked I only watch it for the funnies and when James is on Mostly for James...

plus they don't mention names on techlinked, so there's no notoriety to getting on that

(hint hint)

@James @LinusTech

Eaglerino · October 5, 2018

Electric cars probably work better in the smaller European countries, but (I've said this before) until they can charge to full in 5-10 minutes and have 500+ miles of range I won't consider them as an option. Even Tesla's advertised ranges are usually at 65MPH with decent temperatures outside, and my phone sure doesn't get its advertised use time on one charge

Mihle · October 5, 2018

5 hours ago, Eaglerino said:

Electric cars probably work better in the smaller European countries, but (I've said this before) until they can charge to full in 5-10 minutes and have 500+ miles of range I won't consider them as an option. Even Tesla's advertised ranges are usually at 65MPH with decent temperatures outside, and my phone sure doesn't get its advertised use time on one charge

Size of the country itself doesn't matter much, what matter is how far people usually travel in their country day to day. Especially in cities it's many people that could live with electric cars. Outside the cities some people can't tho.

Why do you need to be able to charge in 5-10 min AND 500+ "miles" range? Do you usually take day trips that is 1000 "miles" for example?

And if you do, don't you usually stop to eat on the way?

jagdtigger · October 5, 2018

14 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

So all Tesla's the i3 and i5 are all garbage?

Its the plaything of the rich...

14 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

Not to mention if you get stuck in a traffic jam

Non-existent problem for a motorbike(we can legally go between cars if its safe to do in a stand still traffic).

As for savings you cant beat a 50ccm 2T bike in that regard(4T is better in fuel consumption, but has more maintenance cost).

14 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

If you are referring to range then chances are you need to see a doctor for range anxiety,

No i just think realistically here, most ppl cant afford a crazy expensive EV and maintain a IC car just for longer trips. Because for long trips EV's are useless with their long charge time even if you quick charge, which is harmful to the longevity of the battery. And on tzop of all this there is the issue with temperature which can further shorten the range. -10 °C is not uncommon in my country in winter.

Mihle · October 5, 2018

29 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Its the plaything of the rich...

Non-existent problem for a motorbike(we can legally go between cars if its safe to do in a stand still traffic).

As for savings you cant beat a 50ccm 2T bike in that regard(4T is better in fuel consumption, but has more maintenance cost).

No i just think realistically here, most ppl cant afford a crazy expensive EV and maintain a IC car just for longer trips. Because for long trips EV's are useless with their long charge time even if you quick charge, which is harmful to the longevity of the battery. And on tzop of all this there is the issue with temperature which can further shorten the range. -10 °C is not uncommon in my country in winter.

I wouldn't consider BMW i3 to be just for the rich.

You are much more likely to die when riding a motorcycle than a car. Also when it comes to other gases than C02, motorcycles is not the best.

Not everyone travel for long trips exept sole times a year, and then some could possibly borrow (or what it's called) another car.

You don't loose half the charge in -10 c or anything if that's what you believe.

RejZoR · October 5, 2018

22 minutes ago, Mihle said:

Size of the country itself doesn't matter much, what matter is how far people usually travel in their country day to day. Especially in cities it's many people that could live with electric cars. Outside the cities some people can't tho.

Why do you need to be able to charge in 5-10 min AND 500+ "miles" range? Do you usually take day trips that is 1000 "miles" for example?

And if you do, don't you usually stop to eat on the way?

There is this misconception that we need 500km range at all times with petrol cars. Lets just say we don't have any kind of range anxiety when my trip computer says 200km and I can be assured I can make a 160km trip without any need to worry I'll maybe need to make extra 40km afterwards without any delays. Can you be with your electric car without absolutely having to charge it for hours between that? With petrol it's a non issue because refill takes 5 minutes and you're again at max range. No car, not even most advanced and expensive Tesla on their superchargers offers that kind of convenience, assuming you have one to use. Which, in my country it would be a no since there are just 2 locations with them.

Then you'd be in a position to stick your EV at every possible regular charge point again assuming there is one and isn't occupied. And if your errands take just few minutes, you won't charge anything. It's just too fiddly with very little benefit from any of it.

And yeah, if you have a trip with range beyond EV capability, it means you'll take TWO days to arrive on a trip that could last just few hours, because you'll spend half of one day just charging. For me, this would be such an off-putting thing even if I'd have to deal with it just once a year. If I have to eat something for half an hour, I can get car refilled inside that time on petrol. With EV, you have to be damn sure you'll have a really fast charger at hand to get any meaningful charge in that time. Unless you love eating for 4+ hours to have a convenient excuse to charge the batteries and defend EV's how wonderful they are. I'm just looking at things from realistic perspective and petrol cars beat them in every single aspect.

I'd love to have an EV because my daily trips are quite short and would work well in that regard. But only place where I could reliably charge would be at home, charge stations are often occupied, their providers are actually very expensive and basically negate any savings from electricity point of view and are just so damn fiddly to use. Not to mention cars are basically 3x the price of a petrol one. Only benefit of them is to brag that you're "eco" because you run on electricity. Which in my country it would be ironic given that large majority of power comes from a coal plant and a small part from a nuclear plant and hydro dams.

jagdtigger · October 5, 2018

10 minutes ago, Mihle said:

I wouldn't consider BMW i3 to be just for the rich.

Read the qoute...

10 minutes ago, Mihle said:

You are much more likely to die when riding a motorcycle than a car.

Same with pedestrians, if you fear death dont go out from you house...

10 minutes ago, Mihle said:

Also when it comes to other gases than C02, motorcycles is not the best.

Its hungarian but the main point is understandable i think:

Spoiler

As for other gases motorbikes do not stand still in the jam unlike cars so in the long run they are better.

10 minutes ago, Mihle said:

Not everyone travel for long trips exept sole times a year, and then some could possibly borrow (or what it's called) another car.

Most ppl gets 400€ vage, half that goes into the house(rental/loan and other expenses). So no, they cannot afford to buy an EV then pay even more more to rent a car whenever they need the bigger range.

10 minutes ago, Mihle said:

You don't loose half the charge in -10 c or anything if that's what you believe.

Its basic chemistry, the lower the temperature the lower the capacity. And based on my experience with my phone and helmet cam its pretty close to half.....

Edited October 5, 2018 by jagdtigger

GoldenLag · October 5, 2018

Since we are talking about EVs now. Anyone heard of public transport? Its this great thing that lets you cross countries while being asleep.

6 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

-snip-

There are some points allready adressed in your post allready adressed somewhere in the 9 page forum post there now is. I wont blame you for repeating as noone would read through the entire thing to make a post at the end.

Yes range on EVs arent up to par with regular gas vehicles. Nor is the charge rate. That still leaves a majority of a population that doesnt need the range. For those that need range there are things like plugin hybrids.

jagdtigger · October 5, 2018

Just now, GoldenLag said:

Anyone heard of public transport?

The thing that takes double amount of time in case of commute than when i go to work with motorbike? No thanks......

Dabombinable · October 5, 2018

Still not understanding why hydrogen fuel cells aren't being pursued for electric cars. They are a hell of a lot greener, sustainable and convenient.

GoldenLag · October 5, 2018

1 minute ago, jagdtigger said:

Its hungarian but the main point is understandable i think:

Reveal hidden contents

Just fyi. The gasses from a common motorbike are worse than a regular car due to impurities. There are more techincal details, but k dont want to get them wrong so i wont mention them.

3 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Most ppl gets 400€ vage, half that goes into the house(rental/loan and other expenses). So no, they cannot afford to buy an EV then pay even more more to rent a car whenever they need the bigger range.

Just fyi, there is this thing called a hybrid (that is the range thing). When it comes to money there is this thing called "trickledown economics". It mostly refers to wealth and wages, but it can be used to describe tech adaptation

GoldenLag · October 5, 2018

Just now, Dabombinable said:

Still not understanding why hydrogen fuel cells aren't being pursued for electric cars. They are a hell of a lot greener, sustainable and convenient.

Because density of hydrogen sucks. Its basicly one of the buggest reasons why not to use hydrogen.

Dabombinable · October 5, 2018

1 minute ago, GoldenLag said:

Because density of hydrogen sucks. Its basicly one of the buggest reasons why not to use hydrogen.

I'm talking about fuel cells, not burning hydrogen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell#Fuel_cell_electric_vehicles_(FCEVs)

GoldenLag · October 5, 2018

4 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

The thing that takes double amount of time in case of commute than when i go to work with motorbike? No thanks......

Its hery nice for those who cant afford a motorbike, or fuel, or maintinence. But can scrape together enough for a bus pass each month.

If its that fast ti commute. Why not an electric motorbike, or just a bicicle

GoldenLag · October 5, 2018

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

I'm talking about fuel cells, not burning hydrogen.

Yes, but fuelcells need hydrogen. Debsity of Hydrogen is god awful, like its terrible.

The density just makes it a logistical nightmare.

jagdtigger · October 5, 2018

7 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Just fyi. The gasses from a common motorbike are worse than a regular car due to impurities. There are more techincal details, but k dont want to get them wrong so i wont mention them.

I know, thats why i wrote under that image:

12 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

As for other gases motorbikes do not stand still in the jam unlike cars so in the long run they are better.

Plus there are 4T models that have catalyzer, 2T dont have them because the oil would clog it up over time (its a slow process because most modern 2T engines use ~1:50 mix).

/EDIT

2 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Yes, but fuelcells need hydrogen. Debsity of Hydrogen is god awful, like its terrible.

The density just makes it a logistical nightmare.

Unless you use liquid form to store it....

Edited October 5, 2018 by jagdtigger

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Europe Parliament accelerating transition to Electric Cars

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