Elon Musk to Resign as Chairman of TESLA for 3 Years and Pay Fine for SEC Violations

[Commodus]

5 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

Id think they would produce enough to be decent? Well I did forget about how it drops with speed

You can definitely tow with EVs.  Even a Model 3 can haul a decent amount behind it... though I'd probably use a Model S or X if I were hauling a large trailer.

[Drak3]

4 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

Id think they would produce enough to be decent? Well I did forget about how it drops with speed

Not without cutting the battery life in half. Whereas a Cummins or Powerstroke may lose 20% on heavier trailers, and up to 40% of you're really pushing the truck to its limits.

 

Then there's the question of is it fun to drive. Electric cars have nearly the same characteristics as some older CVTs, just that electrics can handle torque better. Many modern CVTs simulate gear shifts, and Toyota has one with a launch gear, because many people that bought CVTs didn't enjoy the car for its acceleration characteristics.

[porina]

17 hours ago, mr moose said:

have you got proof he lied? As far as I am aware there are no laws that determine how you must announce your plans for privatization. So long as you are not  lying.  

He's pretty much accepted it at this point. I think this is a positive step, as Musk doesn't seem stable enough to be a leader by himself. I don't expect this to stop him from doing silly things, but at least at a business level the impact will be more limited going forwards.

 

While not an expert, there are rules on disclosure of information that would be of interest to investors, to help create an even playing field. Twitter is a public forum so that in itself isn't likely to be a problem. The problem, which they got him on, was that the "secured funding" didn't happen and most likely never existed in any tangible form.

[Commodus]

6 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Then there's the question of is it fun to drive. Electric cars have nearly the same characteristics as some older CVTs, just that electrics can handle torque better. Many modern CVTs simulate gear shifts, and Toyota has one with a launch gear, because many people that bought CVTs didn't enjoy the car for its acceleration characteristics.

I haven't been in EVs often, but I have been in them... and I'd say they're great experiences.  That massive, continuous wave of instant torque is something to experience.  And since they have low centers of gravity, they're pretty well-planted in turns.  People have complained about CVTs in the past (not so much with newer iterations) in part because they're usually mated to modest engines that just aren't exciting.

[Selah]

1 hour ago, Monkey Dust said:

Banks have received huge fines, 100's of billions of dollars between them . The difference is bank CEOs tend to keep a low profile.

YIKES.

 

Very few perpetrators of individuals taking bailout finances were prosecuted. The banks themselves were sometimes fined, never the ceo's.

[Drak3]

19 minutes ago, Commodus said:

People have complained about CVTs in the past (not so much with newer iterations) in part because they're usually mated to modest engines that just aren't exciting.

People complained because they were too linear and had no gear shifts, which to them is boring. I agree with that sentiment.

 

People stopped complaning about CVTs because modern ones now mimic the feel of an automatic tranny, defeating the purpose. Most of them still can't handle that much torque.

20 minutes ago, Commodus said:

That massive, continuous wave of instant torque is something to experience.

Too linear, it's predictable and boring. The responce, power, and acceleration of ICEs, particularly turbo and supercharged engines, is far more fun.

[Commodus]

13 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

People complained because they were too linear and had no gear shifts, which to them is boring. I agree with that sentiment.

 

People stopped complaning about CVTs because modern ones now mimic the feel of an automatic tranny, defeating the purpose. Most of them still can't handle that much torque.

Too linear, it's predictable and boring. The responce, power, and acceleration of ICEs, particularly turbo and supercharged engines, is far more fun.

I'd say that a sufficiently powerful EV is still going to be fun to drive; you just don't have that familiarity of gear shifts.

 

As it stands, this feels like a bit of a moot point... the industry is moving towards EVs, so there's a good chance you won't be driving a V8 twenty years from now.

[Drak3]

Just now, Commodus said:

the industry is moving towards EVs,

Not really. Beyond adding a few models, the industry is happy to keep going with gasoline Ottos and Diesel engines.

 

1 minute ago, Commodus said:

there's a good chance you won't be driving a V8 twenty years from now.

There really isn't. EVs can't effectively replace large engines and the enthusiast market is too large to abandon it.

[Commodus]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Not really. Beyond adding a few models, the industry is happy to keep going with gasoline Ottos and Diesel engines.

 

There really isn't. EVs can't effectively replace large engines and the enthusiast market is too large to abandon it.

You haven't really been paying attention, I think.

 

GM will have 20 electric car models on the road by 2023; Ford will have 13 global EV models by 2022; VW will have several major models; Toyota and Porsche are dropping diesel sales.  And that's not even ten years out.  This doesn't mean everyone will be driving EVs in 10 years (or even 20), but we are approaching a  tipping point where EVs are a regular part of the automotive landscape.

 

Also, who said EVs can't effectively replace large engines?  There are already electric semis and buses (either here or on the way) that can handle mainstream duties.  Tesla has an electric pickup on the way.  You'll soon see electric supercars that decimate gas rivals in every category, not just short-term acceleration.  And saying they "can't" replace large engines just seems very... short-sighted.  As if the technology we have now will never advance, and that we should just give up.

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, Commodus said:

Aren't most plug-in hybrids serial by definition?  That is, they typically run on electric power first and switch to gas only when they run out of battery.  Some performance models invoke the gas motor to maximize performance, but otherwise...

Serial means electric drive only, parallel means there is direct drive capability from both the electric motor and the petrol/diesel motor. The downside to serial is they require a larger battery so full electric is often just done instead but I really do think there is something to be had for a serial hybrid with electric type performance such as a Tesla rather than the current, rather meager, hybrids. 

[EPENEX]

Either this is because I have javascript disabled, or the photographer is just bad.

[Master Disaster]

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

You haven't really been paying attention, I think.

 

GM will have 20 electric car models on the road by 2023; Ford will have 13 global EV models by 2022; VW will have several major models; Toyota and Porsche are dropping diesel sales.  And that's not even ten years out.  This doesn't mean everyone will be driving EVs in 10 years (or even 20), but we are approaching a  tipping point where EVs are a regular part of the automotive landscape.

 

Also, who said EVs can't effectively replace large engines?  There are already electric semis and buses (either here or on the way) that can handle mainstream duties.  Tesla has an electric pickup on the way.  You'll soon see electric supercars that decimate gas rivals in every category, not just short-term acceleration.  And saying they "can't" replace large engines just seems very... short-sighted.  As if the technology we have now will never advance, and that we should just give up.

The UK will ban all sales of combustion engine cars and vans, including hybrids, in the year 2040.

 

The electric future is already laid out for us in England, that's assuming fuel cells don't make huge leaps between now and then.

 

The massive problem is it doesn't really solve anything as long as 85% of our electricity comes from coal & gas. It just moved the problem up the chain.

[leadeater]

5 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Too linear, it's predictable and boring. The responce, power, and acceleration of ICEs, particularly turbo and supercharged engines, is far more fun.

Dunno, this looks like a lot of fun to me.

 

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

Id think they would produce enough to be decent? Well I did forget about how it drops with speed

You can tow a nice amount with an EV. Even the old leafs have around 100HP.

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Even the old leafs have around 100HP.

HP by itself doesn't mean much. Torque is more important in towing.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Drak3 said:

People complained because they were too linear and had no gear shifts, which to them is boring. I agree with that sentiment.

 

People stopped complaning about CVTs because modern ones now mimic the feel of an automatic tranny, defeating the purpose. Most of them still can't handle that much torque.

Too linear, it's predictable and boring. The responce, power, and acceleration of ICEs, particularly turbo and supercharged engines, is far more fun.

Not too sure about that. 0-60 in 1.9s is pretty nice. EVs are such a new technology and we’ll get even quicker acceleration soon.

 

I’ve had the joy to drive my family’s new Nissan Leaf, and compare it to a new Mini, it accelerates yarns quicker than a mini, and way more fun to drive.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

HP by itself doesn't mean much. Torque is more important in towing.

Read up on EVs and cars in general

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Read up on EVs and cars in general

You might want to follow your own advice. I'm the guy that tows anything for my company, my truck has good low end torque and the best high end torque. My truck tows heavier trailers with little loss in performance and fuel efficiency. But it's also the lowest horsepower truck, only for the fact that diesel trucks red line at 3000RPM and gassers can go 4500RPM. I bought that diesel knowing that when it comes to towing, torque is king.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

You might want to follow your own advice. I'm the guy that tows anything for my company, my truck has good low end torque and the best high end torque. My truck tows heavier trailers with little loss in performance and fuel efficiency. But it's also the lowest horsepower truck, only for the fact that diesel trucks red line at 3000RPM and gassers can go 4500RPM. I bought that diesel knowing that when it comes to towing, torque is king.

Oh dear

[leadeater]

39 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

HP by itself doesn't mean much. Torque is more important in towing.

If electricity can pull a freight train it can pull a tailor, or boot/bed full of junk. 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, RorzNZ said:

Oh dear

The fact that you think that there is something wrong with that statement, that somehow horsepower makes or breaks towing but torque doesn't, just tells me that like most car "enthusiasts," especially the ones on LTT, you're a rat rodder that only knows how to turn a wrench, not what turning that wrench will actually do.

 

Horsepower is the rate at which work is done.

Torque is the capability for work to be done.

Diesel vehicles are high torque, low horsepower, because they're low RPM.

Gasoline vehicles can be low torque, high horsepower, because they can safely achieve high RPM.

Electric motors are high torque at zero RPM, and as RPM rises, torque falls.

 

Just now, leadeater said:

If electricity can pull a freight train it can pull a tailor, or boot/bed full of junk. 

Electric trains use substantially larger and more powerful motors and the rails are powered.

[leadeater]

19 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Electric trains use substantially larger and more powerful motors and the rails are powered.

Most are Diesel-Electric and have on-board power generation rather than powered lines, though both exist. A train is also well, exponentially freakin heavier than anything on the road and the prime reason electric motors are used is because of the torque performance. If diesel motors were better for that type of task it would be direct driving the train but that is not the case. 

 

Edit:

19 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Electric motors are high torque at zero RPM, and as RPM rises, torque falls.

 

If you're above 90% RPM then you're also, or most likely, well above highway speed limits. There are actually many types of electric motors with different performance characteristics i.e. Variable Torque and Constant Torque.

[applebook]

Couldn't have happened to a more humble person.

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

If diesel motors were better for that type of task it would be direct driving

At higher RPM, they are.

 

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

that is not the case. 

Then questionable engineering or policy is backing the train systems or the trains simply don't see high demand.

[leadeater]

6 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Then questionable engineering or policy is backing the train systems or the trains simply don't see high demand.

See edit and also diesel-electric is the mostly widely used train and has been used since the 1900's, it is by far the go to type for freight above any other. Electric for load pulling is straight up better, you have a point about batteries and range but that's it.

 

Quote

Diesel locomotives use a diesel engine as the prime mover. The energy transmission may be either diesel-electric, diesel-mechanical or diesel-hydraulic but diesel-electric is dominant. Electro-diesel locomotives are built to run as diesel-electric on unelectrified sections and as electric locomotives on electrified sections.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport