Linux Dev's threaten to pull killswitch over CoC (somewhat clickbaity title)

[Deus Voltage]

15 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Ok so i don't get it . On the COC website they have stuff like  this :

 

Isn't this work ethic 101 ? What's the big deal here ?  I'd expect this of any professional work environment .

 

I mean , i'm aware of the whole master/slave debacle recently , but the website itself is so vague . It doesn't explicitly state what the problem is or how it will be solved . And i see no mention of pushing/hindering any ethnic groups or people of various backgrounds/orientations. The closest concrete thing is see is "people should be held accountable for their own behaviour" . 

I thought the general rule of thumb is just "don't be a dick" and "treat people as you want to be treated" , and you're fine . what's the controversy , and what is exactly wrong with an existing code of conduct?

 

Exactly. We're in the minority here bud. People are having problems divorcing the author from the CoC.

 

It's very simple people. If the author fuck up in any way, bring hell on em. If they maintain a distance, then maintain a distance too.

 

People are preemptively getting triggered over this (I guess I am getting triggered by the triggerering of people as well).

[suicidalfranco]

19 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Ok so i don't get it . On the COC website they have stuff like  this :

 

 

Isn't this work ethic 101 ? What's the big deal here ?  I'd expect this of any professional work environment .

 

I mean , i'm aware of the whole master/slave debacle recently , but the website itself is so vague . It doesn't explicitly state what the problem is or how it will be solved . And i see no mention of pushing/hindering any ethnic groups or people of various backgrounds/orientations. The closest concrete thing is see is "people should be held accountable for their own behaviour" . 

I thought the general rule of thumb is just "don't be a dick" and "treat people as you want to be treated" , and you're fine . what's the controversy , and what is exactly wrong with an existing code of conduct?

 

Bend the knee and let the witch hunt begin

[yian88]

This is 1000% Linux Torvalds fault, he waited so long to move towards a more independent and stable community after he leaves that now he left so suddently in the worst political moment possible when SJW are swarming everything and everywhere destroying all comunities with their infected ideology.

Linus should have provided a slow transition to an independent sustainable Linux Foundation.  

Its like the captain jumped ship and half the people onboard are maniacs that will eat the other half alive without the captain or a governing body wtf, the ship will sink, goodbye any chance for linux to become whatever.

Luckily due to its licensing the project is not lost just like that ... we shall see how this unfolds, but i know you cant win with SJW unless you remove them completely from the place they create problem.

 

[Sniperfox47]

I mean developers *can* legally rescind their licenses and use that to effectively blackmail the software using their contributions. But how big of a jackass do you have to be to do that?

 

Both sides of this issue are acting like dumb children. Take out the explicit punishment part of the CoC to make it actually reasonable and stop threatening to destroy a project over something so fucking trivial.

[Deus Voltage]

11 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

Bend the knee and let the witch hunt begin

She really shit the bed on that one. It is very much a shame since the CoC itself is non-controversial.

[matrix07012]

57 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Ok so i don't get it . On the COC website they have stuff like  this :

 

Isn't this work ethic 101 ? What's the big deal here ?  I'd expect this of any professional work environment .

 

I mean , i'm aware of the whole master/slave debacle recently , but the website itself is so vague . It doesn't explicitly state what the problem is or how it will be solved . And i see no mention of pushing/hindering any ethnic groups or people of various backgrounds/orientations. The closest concrete thing is see is "people should be held accountable for their own behaviour" . 

I thought the general rule of thumb is just "don't be a dick" and "treat people as you want to be treated" , and you're fine . what's the controversy , and what is exactly wrong with an existing code of conduct?

 

 

The CoC is extremely broad and doesn't define important term such as harassment (which now usually means I respectfully disagreed with you). Also the author herself broke the CoC several times. Link

She also stated her intentions with it:

 

[Giganthrax]

It's the typical SJW outrage olympics. Just grabbing for any opportunity to be triggered by + promote racism. 

[Stefan Payne]

1 hour ago, asus killer said:

i don't get any of this, is this like positive discrimination for linux programmers?

There is no positive discrimination.

There is only discrimination!

Though we all do it everywhere and any time. For example, you by not liking my posting, are discriminating against me. Does it matter? naa...

 

 

Because discriminating isn't always a bad thing, it depends on why you are discriminating against people.

In Programming, do you discriminate against people because they suck at programming or are dicks or something else??

 

 

1 hour ago, asus killer said:

i had no idea programming for Linux was a white straight male thing. WTF

Yeah, especially if it might be common that those people never meet each other....

So its highly likely that nobody gives a fuck what you look like, who you are, who you sleep with or if you live in your mother's basement. That is of absolutely NO importance in this regard.

 

The only thing that is important is:
Is your code good and well made or does your code suck? 

Are you rather friendly or are you an ass?

 

That's all that is of interest. Not the other race, gender bullshit...

2 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Well, this looks interesting.

no, painful.

And is one of the reasons I fear that "Open Source" will fail.

Because you can't get rid of the SJW types...

 

2 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

If people or companies continue using that code, now under a rescinded license, they are potentially open to copyright lawsuits.

...wich means that the servers will have to switch to Windows as there is no (legal) alternative and Linux might get legally problematic. Wich means that this movement will destroy Open Source Software that - until now - was very sucessful in Server and High Performance Computing areas.

 

2 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

My thoughts: I think this is good. I don't think the CoC is a good thing and I think those trying to force it on the Linux community cannot be trusted to be impartial or fair. I think large parts of the CoC will result in objectively racist and sexist policies despite what its proponents claim. I think a lot of the assumptions made by those championing this CoC are, in their own right, racist and sexist.

I agree with that...

 

I posted above, what might happen if that would be implemented. It would be a desaster and kill off Open Source Software...

 

I don't understand why you'd want "diversity" based on Gender and how you were born. That is sexist and racist, because it should be blind and all that counts is your code. Nothing else.

[D13H4RD]

2 minutes ago, matrix07012 said:

Also the author herself broke the CoC several times.

Another reason why hypocrites shouldn't be setting rules that they themselves have broke several times 

[Deus Voltage]

9 minutes ago, matrix07012 said:

 

The CoC is extremely broad and doesn't define important term such as harassment (which now usually means I respectfully disagreed with you). Also the author herself broke the CoC several times.

 

So this is from Microsoft

 

Spoiler

"At Microsoft, we strive to build a diverse and inclusive culture that embraces learning and fosters trust—a culture where every employee can do their best work.

Making good decisions and ethical choices in our work builds trust in each other and with our customers and partners. You should never compromise your personal integrity or the company’s reputation and trust in exchange for any short-term gain.

We are more likely to make ethical choices when integrity, honesty, and compliance guide our decision making. We should always be transparent about our motives, learn from our mistakes, and ask for help when faced with a difficult situation. I expect leaders and managers to foster a culture where employees feel free to ask questions and raise concerns when something doesn’t seem right.

-----

Satya Nadella

 

From Google:

Spoiler

II. Support Each Other

We are committed to a supportive work environment, where employees have the opportunity to reach their fullest potential. Googlers are expected to do their utmost to create a workplace culture that is free of harassment, intimidation, bias, and unlawful discrimination.

Please read the Employee Handbook relevant to your locale. Located in the HR section of our internal corporate site, the Handbook covers in greater detail how we should conduct ourselves at work.

Equal Opportunity Employment

 

Employment here is based solely upon individual merit and qualifications directly related to professional competence. We strictly prohibit unlawful discrimination or harassment on the basis of race, color, religion, veteran status, national origin, ancestry, pregnancy status, sex, gender identity or expression, age, marital status, mental or physical disability, medical condition, sexual orientation, or any other characteristics protected by law. We also make all reasonable accommodations to meet our obligations under laws protecting the rights of the disabled.

Harassment, Discrimination, and Bullying

 

Google prohibits discrimination, harassment and bullying in any form – verbal, physical, or visual, as discussed more fully in our Policy Against Discrimination, Harassment and Retaliation. If you believe you’ve been bullied or harassed by anyone at Google, or by a Google partner or vendor, we strongly encourage you to immediately report the incident to your supervisor, Human Resources or both. Similarly, supervisors and managers who learn of any such incident should immediately report it to Human Resources. HR will promptly and thoroughly investigate any complaints and take appropriate action.

 

Apple

 

Spoiler

Suppliers shall not discriminate against any worker based on race, color, age, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, disability, religion, political affiliation, union membership, national origin, or marital status in hiring and employment practices such as applications for employment, promotions, rewards, access to training, job assignments, wages, benefits, discipline, and termination. Suppliers shall not require a pregnancy test or discriminate against pregnant workers except where required by applicable laws or regulations or prudent for workplace safety. In addition, Suppliers shall not require workers or potential workers to undergo medical tests that could be used in a discriminatory way except where required by applicable laws or regulations or prudent for workplace safety.

 

 

[Trik'Stari]

1 hour ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

I often find these people to be the embodiment of racism.

 

So your weapon against racism is more racism? Huh.

Because their goal isn't equality, it's equity.

 

1 hour ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

dafuq? so someone could be using stuff under a free lisence that then the devs do a lisence switcharoo on and then sue the shit out of you for copyright? wtf

If that's in the terms of the license and you agreed to it at the time, then you don't really have a choice.

[matrix07012]

Just now, Deus Voltage said:

So this is from Microsoft

 

  Reveal hidden contents

"At Microsoft, we strive to build a diverse and inclusive culture that embraces learning and fosters trust—a culture where every employee can do their best work.

Making good decisions and ethical choices in our work builds trust in each other and with our customers and partners. You should never compromise your personal integrity or the company’s reputation and trust in exchange for any short-term gain.

We are more likely to make ethical choices when integrity, honesty, and compliance guide our decision making. We should always be transparent about our motives, learn from our mistakes, and ask for help when faced with a difficult situation. I expect leaders and managers to foster a culture where employees feel free to ask questions and raise concerns when something doesn’t seem right.

-----

Satya Nadella

 

From Google:

  Reveal hidden contents

II. Support Each Other

We are committed to a supportive work environment, where employees have the opportunity to reach their fullest potential. Googlers are expected to do their utmost to create a workplace culture that is free of harassment, intimidation, bias, and unlawful discrimination.

Please read the Employee Handbook relevant to your locale. Located in the HR section of our internal corporate site, the Handbook covers in greater detail how we should conduct ourselves at work.

Equal Opportunity Employment

 

Employment here is based solely upon individual merit and qualifications directly related to professional competence. We strictly prohibit unlawful discrimination or harassment on the basis of race, color, religion, veteran status, national origin, ancestry, pregnancy status, sex, gender identity or expression, age, marital status, mental or physical disability, medical condition, sexual orientation, or any other characteristics protected by law. We also make all reasonable accommodations to meet our obligations under laws protecting the rights of the disabled.

Harassment, Discrimination, and Bullying

 

Google prohibits discrimination, harassment and bullying in any form – verbal, physical, or visual, as discussed more fully in our Policy Against Discrimination, Harassment and Retaliation. If you believe you’ve been bullied or harassed by anyone at Google, or by a Google partner or vendor, we strongly encourage you to immediately report the incident to your supervisor, Human Resources or both. Similarly, supervisors and managers who learn of any such incident should immediately report it to Human Resources. HR will promptly and thoroughly investigate any complaints and take appropriate action.

 

Apple

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Suppliers shall not discriminate against any worker based on race, color, age, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, disability, religion, political affiliation, union membership, national origin, or marital status in hiring and employment practices such as applications for employment, promotions, rewards, access to training, job assignments, wages, benefits, discipline, and termination. Suppliers shall not require a pregnancy test or discriminate against pregnant workers except where required by applicable laws or regulations or prudent for workplace safety. In addition, Suppliers shall not require workers or potential workers to undergo medical tests that could be used in a discriminatory way except where required by applicable laws or regulations or prudent for workplace safety.

 

 

I know. This CoC isn't anything new or unexpected.

[Trik'Stari]

1 minute ago, Deus Voltage said:

So this is from Microsoft

 

  Hide contents

"At Microsoft, we strive to build a diverse and inclusive culture that embraces learning and fosters trust—a culture where every employee can do their best work.

Making good decisions and ethical choices in our work builds trust in each other and with our customers and partners. You should never compromise your personal integrity or the company’s reputation and trust in exchange for any short-term gain.

We are more likely to make ethical choices when integrity, honesty, and compliance guide our decision making. We should always be transparent about our motives, learn from our mistakes, and ask for help when faced with a difficult situation. I expect leaders and managers to foster a culture where employees feel free to ask questions and raise concerns when something doesn’t seem right.

-----

Satya Nadella

 

From Google:

  Hide contents

II. Support Each Other

We are committed to a supportive work environment, where employees have the opportunity to reach their fullest potential. Googlers are expected to do their utmost to create a workplace culture that is free of harassment, intimidation, bias, and unlawful discrimination.

Please read the Employee Handbook relevant to your locale. Located in the HR section of our internal corporate site, the Handbook covers in greater detail how we should conduct ourselves at work.

Equal Opportunity Employment

 

Employment here is based solely upon individual merit and qualifications directly related to professional competence. We strictly prohibit unlawful discrimination or harassment on the basis of race, color, religion, veteran status, national origin, ancestry, pregnancy status, sex, gender identity or expression, age, marital status, mental or physical disability, medical condition, sexual orientation, or any other characteristics protected by law. We also make all reasonable accommodations to meet our obligations under laws protecting the rights of the disabled.

Harassment, Discrimination, and Bullying

 

Google prohibits discrimination, harassment and bullying in any form – verbal, physical, or visual, as discussed more fully in our Policy Against Discrimination, Harassment and Retaliation. If you believe you’ve been bullied or harassed by anyone at Google, or by a Google partner or vendor, we strongly encourage you to immediately report the incident to your supervisor, Human Resources or both. Similarly, supervisors and managers who learn of any such incident should immediately report it to Human Resources. HR will promptly and thoroughly investigate any complaints and take appropriate action.

 

Apple

 

  Hide contents

Suppliers shall not discriminate against any worker based on race, color, age, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, disability, religion, political affiliation, union membership, national origin, or marital status in hiring and employment practices such as applications for employment, promotions, rewards, access to training, job assignments, wages, benefits, discipline, and termination. Suppliers shall not require a pregnancy test or discriminate against pregnant workers except where required by applicable laws or regulations or prudent for workplace safety. In addition, Suppliers shall not require workers or potential workers to undergo medical tests that could be used in a discriminatory way except where required by applicable laws or regulations or prudent for workplace safety.

 

 

The issue here is who defines harassment, and what oversight will there be? In all likelihood, none if any, and if there is any, it will be overseen by the thought police that will always side with anyone claiming harassment, etc.

[matrix07012]

Just now, Trik'Stari said:

Because their goal isn't equality, it's equity.

The final end goal is abolition of the Enlightenment.

 

Also RIP thread.

[Deus Voltage]

4 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

The issue here is who defines harassment, and what oversight will there be? In all likelihood, none if any, and if there is any, it will be overseen by the thought police that will always side with anyone claiming harassment, etc.

And this is precisely why Torvalds leaving Linux was a bad idea. You need a strong leadership to calm everyone else down and be flexible/ pragmatic in terms of decision making.

 

Linux now lacks leadership. That's the problem, not the CoC. Linux needs a strong and firm leadership. Doesn't matter who or where that person is from as long as they have the skills to put everyone's mind at ease. 

[SupremeGOAT]

you see? they wont fuck off? first they try to bully game devs now they wan't OS devs... if you don't like it... fuck off o_o... you don't see me protesting spinach to taste better...

[D13H4RD]

2 minutes ago, matrix07012 said:

Also RIP thread.

It was bound to happen eventually. 

 

This is pretty controversial 

[Linus_torvalds]

Linus Torvalds needs to come back, Say FUCK YOU to all people who do not contribute to linux and just continue developing... sorry merging other peoples code into linux kernels master branch.

[pipnina]

54 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

In my intake, there was literally one female taking up CS.

In my CS course this fresher's week, I saw two in a hall of 50. I knew one of them from the last course I did and they almost dropped out of it due to difficulty (which was imagined... they did best in the class)

[asus killer]

2 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

More specifically, it’s something that just happens to be mostly done by white straight males.

 

There was no actual barrier to coding for Linux if you’re not a white straight male. If that really bothers you so much, I think you have bigger problems.

 

Forcing is not the way to go. Stop trying it you dickwads.

There is no paralel reality in wich i could care less. I just taught it was funny, the crazy americans. And the white straight male is a crazy american think, in this case of the left. Left that can be as idiot as the right in a country of idiot people, is labelling linux coders.

I can't even imagine how they made that assessement, the white male i can conced but they even know they are all straight. So hey wtf and lol

 

America makes me go wtf a lot just fyi.

[pipnina]

18 minutes ago, Deus Voltage said:

Linux now lacks leadership. That's the problem, not the CoC. Linux needs a strong and firm leadership. Doesn't matter who or where that person is from as long as they have the skills to put everyone's mind at ease. 

Did someone say strong and stable leadership?

[matrix07012]

35 minutes ago, matrix07012 said:

 

The CoC is extremely broad and doesn't define important term such as harassment (which now usually means I respectfully disagreed with you). Also the author herself broke the CoC several times. Link

She also stated her intentions with it:

 

Back in January 2016, Coraline pushed Contributor Covenant on to the Ruby community. Look at how Yukihiro Matsumoto responded. https://archive.fo/E1DaL

[mynameisjuan]

This shit is encouraging racism/sexism. There was not a problem. So fucking what if most programmers are white males, its just the majority who are interested in programming, same with construction/manual labor jobs. 

 

The whole point of these movements is to allow any race/gender to work, but saying don't fucking hire white dudes who are experts in the field for years is fucking stupid. 

[Sousuke]

30 minutes ago, pipnina said:

Did someone say strong and stable leadership?

Why can't we all just say this, Gender, Race & Religion doesn't matter just work together and stop being moaning cunts.

 

Watch this to see a couple fuck 2 countries at once:

 

[Bananasplit_00]

1 hour ago, Trik'Stari said:

If that's in the terms of the license and you agreed to it at the time, then you don't really have a choice.

well yah, but that seems really crappy and like something in there just to troll tbh