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LAwLz

Why the Linux CoC is Bad

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As a side note on meritocracy: It sounds great on paper, but I've found it to be a rather useless concept in practice. Primarily because what "merit" is exactly in any given context is not as straightforward to determine a lot of the time and open to interpretation and ambiguity (at least in my experience).

 

Example: I work in a relatively small team of engineers at my company, but we're involved in some EU and German research projects where you work with lots of people from other companies and universities. Beyond a certain baseline of technical competency and a will to work hard during crunch times, your people skills are going to be as important as your technological knowledge, sometimes even more so. You're going to be meeting new people all the time, and you need to be able to work with them without much fuss. Even if you're the most gifted engineer involved in the project, if you cannot play at least somewhat nice with the other folks on the team, you will be utterly useless to your company. In short: You will have no merit. The project will be far better off (and more successful) by hiring somebody who's maybe not quite as brilliant on a purely technical level, but can actually work with other humans. A meritocratic system based purely on technical aspects (for example, code quality, whatever that may be) would fail to take that into account.

 

Another big thing is politics. Somebody has to secure funding for our engineering projects, either from within our company, or from outside. They need to be both knowledgeable enough on a technical level to know what can and cannot be done, and maybe even a rough idea of how, and they need good salesmanship. Often, this is a senior engineer (at least in the teams I've seen so far). They don't need to be super talented on a technical level -- they might have written rather crappy code when they were younger. But they're absolutely crucial in the grand scheme of things.

 

So for me, any CoC where they mention a meritocratic system is a pretty big red flag, to be honest.


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31 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Hmm interesting.

If you ask me, the comment made by Sage Sharp breaks these rules in Linux's new CoC:

  • Must use welcoming and inclusive language.
  • Must be respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences.
  • Can't make derogatory comments, personal or political attacks.
  • Can't publicly harass someone.

 

Also, I strongly recommend people read the mail Ted wrote in which he "apologies rapists".

The reason why he is called a "rape apologist" is because he believes a study claiming that 1 in 4 college women are raped is exaggerating the numbers.

According to the report itself, only 27% of the "rape victims" in the report actually claims to have been raped. The other 73% do not categorize their experience as rape, and 46% of the "rape victims" chose to have sex with their rapist again afterwards.

 

This is how he ended his mail (which by the way is over 7 years old now, do these people really have nothing better to do that go through years upon years of emails to try and find something to get offended by?):

 

The rule only apply the thee.

 

This is the problem, you have to play by their rule, they don't. False accusation like those in court will get you in serious trouble. But unsuccessful attempt like those they can just swept under the rug and try again, eventually they will wear you down.

 

Funny this is exactly what happened to rise of Nazi in Germany. Communist abuse good will of people and hold everything hostage. People get fed up. Nazi look really reasonable in comparison. Next thing you know they are sending Jews to gas chamber.

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10 minutes ago, alpenwasser said:

It sounds great on paper, but I've found it to be a rather useless concept in practice

What's it like being that wrong? Meritocracy is the only system that consistantly works.


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Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

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1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

What's it like being that wrong? Meritocracy is the only system that consistantly works.

 

Feels great, to be honest. I even get paid decent money for it.

 

More seriously though: My point is less that merit in and of itself is useless, but that most of the time when people go on about "meritocracy", they focus almost exclusively on the technological side of things, when in practice, whether or not you hold merit to a specific project is determined by many more factors. As said: An engineer with crappy people skills, no matter how brilliant on a technological level, would not fare well in the environment in which I work. They would be useless; i.e. without merit.

 

Sure, what we end up with is a meritocracy of sorts as well. But not the kind of meritocracy of which your average internet dweller will think when they read the term, most of the time. I'm not saying my tech skills are irrelevant (otherwise I could be replaced by a preschooler, after all). But they're by far not the only thing which is required for me to be good at my job. So applying the term to my situation isn't very useful, because people are going to get the wrong idea. We need engineers with good people skills on top of good technological expertise where I work, otherwise we're simply going to fail at our mission.


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OTHER STUFF: Cable Lacing Tutorial ::: What Is ZFS? ::: mincss Primer ::: LSI RAID Card Flashing Tutorial
FORUM INFO: Community Standards ::: The Moderating Team ::: 10TB+ Storage Showoff Topic

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CoC's are bad because they impose a echo chamber workplace where people with other opinions or people who commit actions that are not favoured by the CoC writer are not allowed to contribute to something that should be available for everyone regardless of stance on political, social, etc. points. Code isn't political, stop turning it into that.

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I don't understand how such vile women (or people in general) even manage to get jobs, let alone keep them.

 

I agree, it's bad. I only skimmed your post since it's such a monster, but from what I read, not very nice.


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18 minutes ago, GlobalPentahedron Corp said:

every business i have worked for where the CEO bangs on about meritocracy is anything but meritocratic. True meritocracy can be found where everyone is a contractor.

Basically, companies that want the best actually try to scout out the best, while those who brag about trying to scout the best aren't scouting the best?

Honestly, this seems like it could be applied to... almost anything.


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35 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Basically, companies that want the best actually try to scout out the best, while those who brag about trying to scout the best aren't scouting the best?

Honestly, this seems like it could be applied to... almost anything.

not really. Another way of saying what I meant is: shitty business leaders will tell you what you want to hear and string you along with BS.

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2 hours ago, alpenwasser said:

 

Feels great, to be honest. I even get paid decent money for it.

 

More seriously though: My point is less that merit in and of itself is useless, but that most of the time when people go on about "meritocracy", they focus almost exclusively on the technological side of things, when in practice, whether or not you hold merit to a specific project is determined by many more factors. As said: An engineer with crappy people skills, no matter how brilliant on a technological level, would not fare well in the environment in which I work. They would be useless; i.e. without merit.

 

Sure, what we end up with is a meritocracy of sorts as well. But not the kind of meritocracy of which your average internet dweller will think when they read the term, most of the time. I'm not saying my tech skills are irrelevant (otherwise I could be replaced by a preschooler, after all). But they're by far not the only thing which is required for me to be good at my job. So applying the term to my situation isn't very useful, because people are going to get the wrong idea. We need engineers with good people skills on top of good technological expertise where I work, otherwise we're simply going to fail at our mission.

The ability to work well with others, as well as adjusting to dynamic circumstances, are things that should, and can be measured, in a meritocracy. Merit doesn't apply only to technical capability. I'm currently dealing with issues at work because a coworker who thinks she is above the rest of us, is judging our work, despite her having ZERO qualifications in what we do, and knowing absolutely nothing about what we do, and that's not right on ANY level. It's becoming quite an issue.

 

Furthermore, what other system is there besides who-you-know, or just an echo chamber?


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7 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Those who fight for "equality" and are very "progressive" tend to be the most discriminatory based on characteristics and personality, from what I've seen, anyway.

Maybe I have a confirmation bias, but lately, I've been seeing more and more of these types.

 

I really wished it would just stop. It's going into levels of absurdity that I've never seen in the 21st century and will likely get worse. The Verge's deflection just because Stefan built a PC wrong was just ridiculous, for example.


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11 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Maybe I have a confirmation bias, but lately, I've been seeing more and more of these types.

 

I really wished it would just stop. It's going into levels of absurdity that I've never seen in the 21st century and will likely get worse. The Verge's deflection just because Stefan built a PC wrong was just ridiculous, for example.

This has been well evidenced in a lot of ways. Those who claim "tolerance" and seeking "diversity" are some of the most racist/sexist people I've ever encountered or witnessed. They allow for zero diversity of thought, and respond to any and all amounts of criticism with claims of racism/sexism/etc.

 

The entire "progressive" movement is actually regressive, and toxic as hell.

 

Shit like that, is WHY Trump won. Because enough people got tired of the rhetoric, and decided to fight back. The worst part is, instead of softening the rhetoric or doing some self analysis, they seem to just be doubling down, and I really fear the pendulum will swing farther in the opposite direction, in the next round of elections, only leading to more extremism.

 

Yeah this is a bit off topic, but worth mentioning I think.


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18 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

This has been well evidenced in a lot of ways. Those who claim "tolerance" and seeking "diversity" are some of the most racist/sexist people I've ever encountered or witnessed. They allow for zero diversity of thought, and respond to any and all amounts of criticism with claims of racism/sexism/etc.

Sometimes I wonder whether they realize they're turning into the person they claim they're against...


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2 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Sometimes I wonder whether they realize they're turning into the person they claim they're against...

For most people, no, they don't. The people that start realizing/questioning themselves tend to stop, and shift towards either conservatism or libertarianism.


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Everybody turns to dust.

 

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29 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

This has been well evidenced in a lot of ways. Those who claim "tolerance" and seeking "diversity" are some of the most racist/sexist people I've ever encountered or witnessed. They allow for zero diversity of thought, and respond to any and all amounts of criticism with claims of racism/sexism/etc.

 

The entire "progressive" movement is actually regressive, and toxic as hell.

 

Shit like that, is WHY Trump won. Because enough people got tired of the rhetoric, and decided to fight back. The worst part is, instead of softening the rhetoric or doing some self analysis, they seem to just be doubling down, and I really fear the pendulum will swing farther in the opposite direction, in the next round of elections, only leading to more extremism.

 

Yeah this is a bit off topic, but worth mentioning I think.

I'll admit that I haven't been paying attention to politics for long (at most, a couple of years) and it's legitimately sad to see how damn far we've seen the progressive movement swing to the far left. Back when I was in high school, while I never explicitly stated I was pro-Trump, I very clearly could tell I was one of the very few people that would give him a chance. And that's what I'm afraid of, a generation of closed-minded people feeding off of social media rather than being independent thinkers, even if it's politics I dislike.

As Taf said earlier in the thread, "Get woke, go broke", and that's incredibly true; from what I've observed, this generation is incredibly racially aware, and it leads down a dangerous path for everyone involved, and frankly, it's going to affect everything itself (especially the job economy) in the very near future when we're running businesses.


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12 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

For most people, no, they don't. The people that start realizing/questioning themselves tend to stop, and shift towards either conservatism or libertarianism.

Honestly I doubt that. They know full well what they have turned into. But why give up the power while you have it?

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Just now, doomleika said:

Honestly I doubt that. They know full well what they have turned into. But why give up the power while you have it?

They don't have the power. Hard work > Being a professional victim.


Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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10 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

They don't have the power. Hard work > Being a professional victim.


...when you have a system that doesn't bend backward. Most project does not have to ability nor knowledge to deal with this.

 

80% of them can't code for shit. But they have to power to fuck over whoever they don't like. Be kick people out of years long contribution to have them fired on minor infraction[1]

 

--

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681

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30 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

IAnd that's what I'm afraid of, a generation of closed-minded people feeding off of social media rather than being independent thinkers, even if it's politics I dislike.

I already have the gut feeling that this is where society is headed.

 

Instead of looking at both sides of the coin and then coming up with your own opinion, it seems people would rather succumb to the herd mentality.


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2 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

already have the gut feeling that this is where society is headed.

It's always been like that.


Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

It's always been like that.

Only now even more people are going that route.

 

Looks like my definition of a utopia is vastly different from the others


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Just now, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Only now even more people are going that route.

Not really. It's just becoming more apparent.


Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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7 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

I already have the gut feeling that this is where society is headed.

 

Instead of looking at both sides of the coin and then coming up with your own opinion, it seems people would rather succumb to the herd mentality.

This is bound to happen IMO.

 

No amount of 'awareness' or 'education' can solve that, I would rather it became huge shitstorm and at least a section of people will know what happen when you allow radical element control the narrative.

 

Or to have someone opposite at their throat 24/7, unfortunely the only one capable doing this is usually radical element on the other side.

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People like this don't know when to quit, most programmers I know IRL are very passionate about their work and this type of personality would eventually get shoved aside, it's just too bad when somebody forces drama and ruins people's contributions for their own selfish gain.

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