[UPDATED] Stop Dave. I'm afraid. - Microsoft tests soft blocking Firefox and Chrome Installs

[dalekphalm]

8 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

Mainstream browsers pfft

Edge is hardly "mainstream" - it has similar market share to Safari. Chrome is actually the mainstream browser, with a massive 60%+ market share.

 

Internet Explorer is the only "mainstream" browser from Microsoft - and it has a pitiful ~12% market share (similar to FF).

https://netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?options={"filter"%3A{"%24and"%3A[{"deviceType"%3A{"%24in"%3A["Desktop%2Flaptop"]}}]}%2C"dateLabel"%3A"Trend"%2C"attributes"%3A"share"%2C"group"%3A"browser"%2C"sort"%3A{"share"%3A-1}%2C"id"%3A"browsersDesktop"%2C"dateInterval"%3A"Monthly"%2C"dateStart"%3A"2017-09"%2C"dateEnd"%3A"2018-08"%2C"segments"%3A"-1000"}

 

This kind of stuff just annoys me and ends up pissing me off. It pisses me off enough as it is when I want to change the default browser to FF or Chrome (I do this at work a lot).

 

Microsoft! Make Edge comparable to FF and Chrome, and I'll try it out again. But it's not there yet. And shoving it down my throat will just make me mad.

[GoodBytes]

 -- Merging --

In the coming up version of Windows 10 coming this October, the OS will come a variety of features and fixes as usual. However, one feature that is being implemented is "App Recommendation", a feature found in the Settings > Apps > Apps & Features, and enabled by default:

 

 

This will result, in a pop-up that will show when a user installs (and only installs) Firefox or Chrome web browser suggesting to use Edge web browser instead:

 

The battle of pop-ups to switch to a service provider clearly is ongoing with Google showing pop-ups to use its Chrome web browser, and Microsoft pushing pop-ups on its site, and soon Windows 10 to use Edge. Microsoft previously attempted to show different pop-ups in Windows 10 to push Edge, but has backtracked them after backlash.

 

Quote

Microsoft is getting ready to warn Windows 10 users not to install Chrome or Firefox. The software giant is in the final stages of testing its Windows 10 October 2018 Update, and testers have spotted a new change that appears when you try to install a rival web browser. “You already have Microsoft Edge – the safer, faster browser for Windows 10” says a prompt that appears when you run the Chrome or Firefox installers on the latest Windows 10 October 2018 Update.

While the prompts can be turned off, they’re yet another example of Microsoft infesting Windows 10 with annoying ads and pop-ups.

 

Source: https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/17850146/microsoft-windows-10-chrome-firefox-warning

 

If you want to think about it positively:

1. You can turn it off (if it wasn't already), and the option seems to sync with your MS profile and should not pop-up on your next re-install (if you use a MS linked account)
2. It shows up once, when you install Chrome or Firefox, and not each time you start the web browser, like website does when you visit them (although Microosft does it for its services)

 

While Edge web browser has indeed came a long way since its released, with a lot of hyped squashed by a bad first impression as Microsoft was focusing in rushing its released, it is today a far more competent web browser than before, and continue to be the case with each version of Windows 10, so far. That said, while it might be a fine choice for many people, and probably deliver a better experience based on the device they are on, your "average user" tend to not try something new to what was introduced to them, or suggested, once in the past, by someone. No comparison and opinion is made, is my point. The same reality applies to Opera which could never get off the grounds, and Firefox which can't seem to get any growth, despite, both, having advantages overs Chrome.

 

However, I think Microsoft should continue its focus further on Edge instead of doing this. I think if Microsoft can target Edge to power users (us), this will help push Edge as we, may, recommend it to people to use, or say it is a fine, instead of pushing Chrome or Firefox.

 

Based on StatCounter:

• Edge is floating at 4.24%, can't seem to pass the 5% mark
• Firefox is at: 10.97%
• Chrome is at: 67.68%
• IE decrease slowly, but is at: 7.02%
• Safari is at: 5.13%
• And the rest is split with other browsers

http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide

 

What is your opinion on this? What will make you move to Edge? When Edge was released, stability and websites support was the most requested thing, this has been massively improved. Then it was Extensions, now Edge supports it, and has a nice and growing list of extensions. Then it was no mobile phone support to sync bookmarks and passwords and such. Today, Edge is available on iOS and Android devices, Edge has been downloaded from the Google Play Store over 5 million times so far, with a review score of 4.4/5, and includes passing links from Phone to PC feature.

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

Apple, you have my permission to do this for Apple Maps.

^{(for teh lulz)}

I wouldn't mind that - at least Apple Maps is good. I use it and Google Maps both fairly regularly (and my iPhone using fiancee exclusively uses Google Maps), and I find that Apple Maps is pretty comparable to Google Maps.

 

I actually prefer the UI of Apple Maps. Road names are easier to read, and I prefer the night mode too.

 

Mind you, it's still a scum move to do these kinds of things.

[HarryNyquist]

Man, MS is really pushing the envelope with how much I DON'T want to use it for anything but games.

 

Come on.

[mynameisjuan]

I see it being no worse than this. 

Spoiler

 

[BuckGup]

11 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

This is the kind of shit they should be sued over. It should be completely unacceptable behavior from a legal and ethical standpoint. 

 

Fuck off Microsoft. 

Steams Vulkan WINE seems very promising. If it supports every game then there is no need for windows

[mynameisjuan]

1 minute ago, BuckGup said:

If it supports every game

Ehhhhh....support is a very loose word for WINE and POL. 

[Guest]

On its own it wouldn't be so bad, but coupled with constant warnings to make a Microsoft Account and use OneDrive, it's turning the OS into one big Microsoft cloud services ad.

And that's doesn't even include all the telemetry and random crappy games.

[Blademaster91]

10 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

I see it being no worse than this. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

While I think Google's popup crap is really annoying too, it is much more shady for the OS to be throwing ads in your face to use another browser, sadly Google does it with no repercussion since they have so much browser market share,and most people don't care it wastes so much RAM.

[dalekphalm]

9 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

I see it being no worse than this. 

  Hide contents

 

This is also bad - two wrongs don't make a right.

 

We should be calling out both Google and Microsoft for their anti-competitive/anti-consumer actions.

[BuckGup]

3 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Ehhhhh....support is a very loose word for WINE and POL. 

That's why Valve has stepped in to help

[mynameisjuan]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

This is also bad - to wrongs don't make a right.

 

We should be calling out both Google and Microsoft for their anti-competitive/anti-consumer actions.

No saying its right but both I dont see it as that big of a deal. 

Just now, BuckGup said:

That's why Valve has stepped in to help

Doing a damn good job too. 

[Sniperfox47]

32 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Edge is actually pretty good. Most people who value battery life on laptops tend to use it the most.

 

31 minutes ago, KendoSapion said:

Did Linus disapprove or approve that? I can't quite remember

 

29 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Its been a while but look through Surface or ultrabook forums and its pretty apparent 

 

If you have a Skylake based system and use YouTube the battery life different is pretty spectacular. Skylake kinda not really had support for hybrid decoding of VP9 and somehow edge manages to leverage this despite it not being exposed by Windows. Pretty significant performance and battery boost while watching VP9.

 

If you have a newer (or older) system than Skylake the differences are totally negligible within margin of error.

 

9 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

 -- Merging --

In the coming up version of Windows 10 coming this October, the OS will come a variety of features and fixes as usual. However, one feature that is being implemented is "App Recommendation", a feature found in the Settings > Apps > Apps & Features, and enabled by default:

 

 

This will result, in a pop-up that will show when a user installs (and only installs) Firefox or Chrome web browser suggesting to use Edge web browser instead:

 

The battle of pop-ups to switch to a service provider clearly is ongoing with Google showing pop-ups to use its Chrome web browser, and Microsoft pushing pop-ups on its site, and soon Windows 10 to use Edge. Microsoft previously attempted to show different pop-ups in Windows 10 to push Edge, but has backtracked them after backlash.

 

 

Source: https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/17850146/microsoft-windows-10-chrome-firefox-warning

 

If you want to think about it positively:

1. You can turn it off (if it wasn't already), and the option seems to sync with your MS profile and should not pop-up on your next re-install (if you use a MS linked account)
2. It shows up once, when you install Chrome or Firefox, and not each time you start the web browser, like website does when you visit them (although Microosft does it for its services)

 

While Edge web browser has indeed came a long way since its released, with a lot of hyped squashed by a bad first impression as Microsoft was focusing in rushing its released, it is today a far more competent web browser than before, and continue to be the case with each version of Windows 10, so far. That said, while it might be a fine choice for many people, and probably deliver a better experience based on the device they are on, your "average user" tend to not try something new to what was introduced to them, or suggested, once in the past, by someone. No comparison and opinion is made, is my point. The same reality applies to Opera which could never get off the grounds, and Firefox which can't seem to get any growth, despite, both, having advantages overs Chrome.

 

However, I think Microsoft should continue its focus further on Edge instead of doing this. I think if Microsoft can target Edge to power users (us), this will help push Edge as we, may, recommend it to people to use, or say it is a fine, instead of pushing Chrome or Firefox.

 

Based on StatCounter:

• Edge is floating at 4.24%, can't seem to pass the 5% mark
• Firefox is at: 10.97%
• Chrome is at: 67.68%
• IE decrease slowly, but is at: 7.02%
• Safari is at: 5.13%
• And the rest is split with other browsers

http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide

 

What is your opinion on this? What will make you move to Edge? When Edge was released, stability and websites support was the most requested thing, this has been massively improved. Then it was Extensions, now Edge supports it, and has a nice and growing list of extensions. Then it was no mobile phone support to sync bookmarks and passwords and such. Today, Edge is available on iOS and Android devices, Edge has been downloaded from the Google Play Store over 5 million times so far, with a review score of 4.4/5, and includes passing links from Phone to PC feature.

How do you possible think a "hey check out our browser too! It's fast and safe" at the top of a website in any way compares to a threatening popup when you actually try to install something else?

 

1) whether you can turn it off or not is really irrelevant... This is merely an annoyance to the tech savy crowd. It's manipulative and abusive to the people who aren't tech savy and those are not the people going pouring through settings before trying to install software and being redirected away from that install.

 

2) for the crowd this is targeted at all you need is once... There is massive power in default behavior, and there is a huge difference between a banner ad to get a software and an intrusive popup that actively blocks the install of a competitor and pushes you away from using them.

[MoonlightSylv]

This is just petty.

[PlayStation 2]

I have a web browser secret program called Vivaldi. Take that, Microsoft.

[Fullmental]

Isn't this sort of arrogance something Microsoft already got in trouble with the EU for 5 years ago? I can't imagine this will go over well.

[dalekphalm]

6 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

No saying its right but both I dont see it as that big of a deal. 

Doing a damn good job too. 

It definitely is a big deal. Microsoft is doing two things:

1. Abusing their dominant position as main OS choice to force or trick people into using their browser - Edge

2. Using underhanded UI tactics to try and sabotage users who try to use other browsers - or to annoy these users into giving in and just using Edge

 

Seriously, try changing the default browser from Edge to Chrome - a popup asking if you're sure comes up - but the default and HIGHLIGHTED action is "keep using Edge", whereas "switch anyway" is using much smaller text that isn't highlighted.

 

This is the same thing. "Open Microsoft Edge" is a larger button, highlighted, and underlined. "Install anyway" is less prominent.

 

You can still make the switch, but they are intentionally making it annoying to go through the steps to switch.

[schwellmo92]

I do like the Edge feature where I can transfer sessions between my mobile and desktop, and the fact that Microsoft so pay you to use their browser also would be good incentive for lower income countries. Edge is pretty good I just haven’t been bothered to fully switch.

[mynameisjuan]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

It definitely is a big deal. Microsoft is doing two things:

1. Abusing their dominant position as main OS choice to force or trick people into using their browser - Edge

2. Using underhanded UI tactics to try and sabotage users who try to use other browsers - or to annoy these users into giving in and just using Edge

 

Seriously, try changing the default browser from Edge to Chrome - a popup asking if you're sure comes up - but the default and HIGHLIGHTED action is "keep using Edge", whereas "switch anyway" is using much smaller text that isn't highlighted.

 

This is the same thing. "Open Microsoft Edge" is a larger button, highlighted, and underlined. "Install anyway" is less prominent.

 

You can still make the switch, but they are intentionally making it annoying to go through the steps to switch.

Its a few extra clicks I dont see as an issue. Most non-tech savy people that people wont even notice because they couldnt care less about the browser they are using let alone install a different one and just an extra click away on install anyway.  

 

I get that these are sneaky tactics but enough to warrant suing for anti-competition? Come on...

[pas008]

34 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

This is the kind of shit they should be sued over. It should be completely unacceptable behavior from a legal and ethical standpoint. 

 

Fuck off Microsoft. 

havent they been in trouble for this many times though?

us and eu

 

looks to be just another attempt

[Bouzoo]

19 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

That's why Valve has stepped in to help

Support

 

Valve

 

Pick 1.

[TacoSenpai]

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

havent they been in trouble for this many times though?

us and eu

 

looks to be just another attempt

if I recall correctly there was a big case about something similar in regards to Netscape and MS going at each other way back. 

[pas008]

Just now, LordOTaco said:

if I recall correctly there was a big case about something similar in regards to Netscape and MS going at each other way back. 

think there was 2010ish one too

not sure to lazy to look up

[dalekphalm]

Just now, mynameisjuan said:

Its a few extra clicks I dont see as an issue. Most non-tech savy people that people wont even notice because they couldnt care less about the browser they are using let alone install a different one and just an extra click away on install anyway.  

 

I get that these are sneaky tactics but enough to warrant suing for anti-competition? Come on...

Yes, it may well warrant using for anti-competitive practices.

 

The fact that non-tech savvy people don't care is besides the point. There are a LOT of people who I wouldn't call "tech savvy", but also prefer to use Chrome. These are the people who will be most impacted by this. Some of them might just "give up" on switching because they click the "keep using Edge" button by mistake and get frustrated as to why it's not switching easily and quickly, for example.

 

Just because it's a fairly minor thing does not mean it's okay. Sneaky tactics need to be confronted immediately, because if they get away with this, it will encourage them to do worse things in the future.

[rcmaehl]

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

think there was 2010ish one too

not sure to lazy to look up

You mean this from Microsoft?