Analysis of the USB-C dongle/headset mess. Bring back the 3.5 mm jack!

[samcool55]

2 hours ago, FPSwithaWacomTablet said:

Having played around with EAGLE and KiCAD software lately, I had ideas about creating an Arduino using USB-C connectors.

 

Until I found out how many pins there were. A lot of them are also redundant since "reversible", and for simpler uses the connector itself a waste. Routing wires seems like a pain in the ass,  and even worse when you start delving into high-speed circuitry used in USB 3.0, Thunderbolt, etc.

 

-snip-

 

Though honestly, this is just a rant from a hobbyist like myself. I would assume real electronics engineers are above this.

Nah, i wouldn't say it's just a rant, i think you are pointing out a very important design difference between USB-C and every other USB port.

It's too complex and not as solid. It's better than micro-usb but a usb-a port is like a tank compared to usb-c.

 

Like, people say "USB-C will replace every usb port!" It won't. It just won't. It's too complex and too expensive. I just can't see it replacing usb-a anytime soon. Hobbyists like you are a perfect example of why it won't go anywhere. If you want to throw something together and use USB for whatever, you will use usb-a. I can't see any reason why someone like you will have to use usb-c instead of something else.

[FPSwithaWacomTablet]

1 hour ago, samcool55 said:

-snip-

BTW, it's $4k annually for a USB Vendor ID if I wanted to make USB devices. Small tidbit.

 

[Sniperfox47]

4 hours ago, FPSwithaWacomTablet said:

Having played around with EAGLE and KiCAD software lately, I had ideas about creating an Arduino using USB-C connectors.

 

Until I found out how many pins there were. A lot of them are also redundant since "reversible", and for simpler uses the connector itself a waste. Routing wires seems like a pain in the ass,  and even worse when you start delving into high-speed circuitry used in USB 3.0, Thunderbolt, etc.

 

 

Though honestly, this is just a rant from a hobbyist like myself. I would assume real electronics engineers are above this.

 

 

 

 

When you're handling it with PCBs this is actually not so bad. A lot of these connections only need to be worried about for the tiny distance between your USB-C Mux and the port itself. All of the complexity is ignorable once you get passed the mux and are literally just connecting all your standard USB 3.1 stuff into it.

 

The complexity comes back if you want to do the new multilane USB 3.2 stuff, but that winds up with twice as many lines because you're passing twice as much data.

 

I'm surprised they don't have ports with integrated Muxes for hobbyists, but I guess it's not a particularly big catagory of users and in production products you're going to want to pick a Mux specific to your port's needs.

 

But yeah because the extra lanes are a lot shorter isolation isn't a problem. This makes it a lot more manageable than audio lanes where you either need to make sure they're plenty isolated on their long run from the SoC, or put a dedicated DAC/AMP in closer to the plug. Either way takes up quite a bit of room.

 

5 minutes ago, FPSwithaWacomTablet said:

BTW, it's $4k annually for a USB Vendor ID if I wanted to make USB devices. Small tidbit.

 

Ouch.

 

Although you could always do what all the little Chinese product clones do and piggyback on someone else's product ID.

[FPSwithaWacomTablet]

28 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

-snip-

Ah.... I barely started using USB 2.0 in the controller chips I've been playing with, mainly the ATmega32U4 I just wire the pins directly to the UVCC, D+, D- and GND pins, with some impedance matching and filtering. I took an example from here: https://github.com/ruiqimao/keyboard-pcb-guide 

 

 

 

 I still think the extra pins are a waste for what I need. Micro USB it is. 

 

EDIT 1: On a larger note, the extra pins create device fragmentation between vendors IMO, since implementations are not exactly standardized like how some devices are hardwired USB 2.0, and other devices are 2.0, 3.0, 3.2, etc. with the muxes you mentioned. The closest spread between implementations would be within the vendor's own product line, which is at this point vendor lock-in.

 

EDIT 2: I would also assume that SuperSpeed USB 3.0 might run into those issues as well, though as far as I'm concerned everyone's been doing fine.

[IhazHedont]

19 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

My gripe now is that I categorically won't buy a glass or metal phone.

Sure there's the Pocophone who would fit my hardware upgrade needs, but it also mean giving up on the DAC, and that's annoying AF.

And no second display, best way to switch between recently opened apps IMO

Fortunately you can buy a very very slim case for the LG G6, I don't feel it at all, but I agree, I don't get the glass back ...

 

Losing the second screen was annoying AF, so I'm using Elvie launcher now. Works well to replace the second screen.

[spartaman64]

On 9/11/2018 at 3:13 PM, JoseGuya said:

Why would you not put a DAC into the dongle? The whole reasoning behind the usb-c dongle was to save space in the phone, right? So why remove the 3.5 jack and still have the DAC inside the phone? Makes absolutely no sense. 

well you need that dac for the phone to fulfill its main functionality which is to make phone calls

[FPSwithaWacomTablet]

20 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

well you need that dac for the phone to fulfill its main functionality which is to make phone calls

You mean to be able to hear phone calls.

[Curufinwe_wins]

38 minutes ago, FPSwithaWacomTablet said:

You mean to be able to hear phone calls.

Also to be able to be heard. 

[Drak3]

1 hour ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Also to be able to be heard. 

Technically no, that would be on an ADC. Though, I'm sure that most of these DACs double as ADCs.

[poochyena]

I have no problem with replacing the headphone jack with a usb C connector, would be great and I could get usb C headphones. But the problem is that all these phone makers just simply get rid of the connector, rather than replacing it with anything.

[spellmanuk]

Just get bluetooth headphones honestly ive never looked back since, I own a Pair of Airpods and a Pair of sony on ears best thing i ever did 

[Drak3]

16 minutes ago, peej said:

Just get bluetooth headphones honestly ive never looked back since, I own a Pair of Airpods and a Pair of sony on ears best thing i ever did 

I've got bluetooth VModas. They sound so much better wired and bluetooth is really inconvenient.

[XenosTech]

18 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I've got bluetooth VModas. They sound so much better wired and bluetooth is really inconvenient.

Same with my Sony xb950b1's. They sound nice over bluetooth but wired sounds waaayyy better

[spellmanuk]

23 hours ago, Drak3 said:

I've got bluetooth VModas. They sound so much better wired and bluetooth is really inconvenient.

 

23 hours ago, XenosTech said:

Same with my Sony xb950b1's. They sound nice over bluetooth but wired sounds waaayyy better

I use my airpods mode of the time the easiest headphones ive ever used just litterly take them out the chage case and put them in your ears and press play 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, peej said:

 

I use my airpods mode of the time the easiest headphones ive ever used just litterly take them out the chage case and put them in your ears and press play 

Because I value battery life and security over a nanoscopic amount of nonexistant convenience, I don't leave bluetooth on.

 

I'm also not compromising and using anything running iOS either.

[XenosTech]

10 minutes ago, peej said:

 

I use my airpods mode of the time the easiest headphones ive ever used just litterly take them out the chage case and put them in your ears and press play 

I mean with my sony's I just tap my phone on them and they turn on and pair and I go on about my merry way. Most I have to do is turn them off manually so I can get 3-4 days out of 1 charge.

7 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Because I value battery life and security over a nanoscopic amount of nonexistant convenience, I don't leave bluetooth on.

 

I'm also not compromising and using anything running iOS either.

Maybe I'd use iOs if some one gave me an iPhone but I wouldn't spend my own money buying anything apple related. Shit I got a mom a galaxy tablet and she uses that way more than the iPad she shelled out a pretty penny for.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, XenosTech said:

 

I mean with my sony's I just tap my phone on them and they turn on and pair and I go on about my merry way. Most I have to do is turn them off manually so I can get 3-4 days out of 1 charge

With my V modas, I just have to plug in a single cable and I go on my merry way.

 

I get infinite battery life out of them using that method.

[XenosTech]

Just now, Drak3 said:

With my V modas, I just have to plug in a single cable and I go on my merry way.

 

I get infinite battery life out of them using that method.

I still have a cable for my sony's and I always have my cloud alphas in my bag any way.