Analysis of the USB-C dongle/headset mess. Bring back the 3.5 mm jack!

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Desktop, documents, any folder you like ARE backed up by default.

 

Or I know exactly how to use each of those systems and guess what? OS X is badly designed. Forced lack of click-through applications is bad design. Lack of Aero Snap (or equivalent) by default is bad design. Locking the toolbar of applications up away from the application itself, no matter where the application is currently located is bad design.

 

It is an OS completely decoupled from efficiency in utilization for the sake of some "artistic vision". I'd much rather use Ubuntu, Mint, or Arch for fully compliant Unix over OS X (though with increasing unix-like terminal support, windows is lowering the need less and less for anything else.)

You just arent used to it, its a much better design. Like I said, its not made to run like windows, you need to adjust and not to complain that it doesnt do what you want. It does - just differently. 

 

7 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

That's also true of OSX. It'd take about as much time to set that up on OSX as it would in Windows using an external HDD, any cloud service, or basic NAS sold at Walmart. Any custom NAS solution, and odds are I'm spending more time configuring the NAS to work with OSX than the effort is worth.

I just sign into my iCloud account and it transfers all my iCloud settings and services, like cloud storage. To set it up from a new account you just check a box, then its accessable across all my devices. 

 

The NAS can be pretty troublesome though. I just hook mine up and use SMB, and connect with CIFS:// (which is much faster when accessing then SMB://)

[S w a t s o n]

Going to point out again that Google's dongle outputs analog because of the DAC which is the best of both worlds approach and why it works WITH EVERY PHONE. Why the fuck would Google regress to fucking analog only and not have it work on every device

[Drak3]

Just now, RorzNZ said:

I just sign into my iCloud account and it transfers all my iCloud settings and services, like cloud storage. To set it up from a new account you just check a box, then its accessable across all my devices. 

Yeah I have less than zero faith in Apple's online security.

 

1 minute ago, RorzNZ said:

ou just arent used to it, its a much better design. Like I said, its not made to run like windows, you need to adjust and not to complain that it doesnt do what you want. It does - just differently. 

I'm used to OSX's design. Saying it's better by any capacity is a load of bullshit. It's different. It's not better.

[Curufinwe_wins]

3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I use it, no it doesn't. Everything on my OneDrive predates Windows 10. Hell, it goes back to when it was called SkyDrive.

It just has OneDrive as the default save location, an easy switch. Just like how Office defaulted to the documents library/folder before Office 365.

Yes. and it also simultaneously changes the default Documents folder to link to the onedrive one instead of your non-backed up one. Thus making that entire folder sync'd.

[Drak3]

Just now, Curufinwe_wins said:

Yes. and it also simultaneously changes the default Documents folder to link to the onedrive one instead of your non-backed up one. Thus making that entire folder sync'd.

Never had that happen to me in the 7 years I've ran 365.

[Curufinwe_wins]

2 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

You just arent used to it, its a much better design. Like I said, its not made to run like windows, you need to adjust and not to complain that it doesnt do what you want. It does - just differently. 

 

I just sign into my iCloud account and it transfers all my iCloud settings and services, like cloud storage. To set it up from a new account you just check a box, then its accessable across all my devices. 

 

The NAS can be pretty troublesome though. I just hook mine up and use SMB, and connect with CIFS:// (which is much faster when accessing then SMB://)

It has missing functionality that has been base-level expected on every other OS for a decade. That isn't "better". That isn't "it does -just differently". That is "it doesn't have the capability", unless you install a separate program to add it back".

[Curufinwe_wins]

Just now, Drak3 said:

Never had that happen to me in the 7 years I've ran 365.

Are you on a local account instead of a Microsoft account for your computer?

 

Honestly. I wish it DIDN'T happen. It pisses me off (takes a frustrating amount of effort to undo, since onedrive somehow finds ways to undo that setting...), and makes things a huge pain when using multiple office accounts (work and personal). But every single computer I've installed it on, from the first moment I got 365 in 2013 has been that way.

 

 

https://support.office.com/en-us/article/files-save-to-onedrive-by-default-in-windows-10-33da0077-770c-4bda-b61e-8c8e8ca70ac7

 

"If you change your Desktop setting from OneDrive to This PC, your PC's Desktop may suddenly look empty. This is because the Desktop, Documents, and Pictures folders exist in both This PC and OneDrive, which might make them easy to mix up. "

 

The default is OneDrive at the least on Windows 10.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

It has missing functionality that has been base-level expected on every other OS for a decade. That isn't "better". That isn't "it does -just differently". That is "it doesn't have the capability", unless you install a separate program to add it back".

There is no missing functionality. Windows aero is a design, you can't expect it to be on MacOS

6 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Yeah I have less than zero faith in Apple's online security.

Thats fair, but Google and Microsoft aren't perfect either. 

6 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I'm used to OSX's design. Saying it's better by any capacity is a load of bullshit. It's different. It's not better.

I'd agree there, but the argument can't be made for that its worse, just used to.

[Drak3]

Just now, Curufinwe_wins said:

Are you on a local account instead of a Microsoft account for your computer?

Microsoft account on all of my systems.

[Curufinwe_wins]

11 minutes ago, S w a t s o n said:

i dont think you understand how this works, either the dongle outputs digital or it outputs analog, you're asking for a usb-c dongle that outputs both which no one does afaik. Unlike USB-PD, this idea is dumb and probably wont ever become the norm

Are you intentionally failing to understand that the USB-C port has a standard spec for outputing Analog audio. If this was forced to be complied with... all the passive adapters would work with every phone.

 

The digital variant is taking normal USB data, and doing the same exact thing as a sound card in making that into analog audio. Unless the dongle is explicitly intelligent to only allow device ID's that are the ones it expects to be plugged in (IE whitelisting specific products), it will work on every usb-c device already. You take a usb audio dac plug it into a computer, you don't have to worry about the manufacturer of the computer because that isn't how it works. It just takes the digital standard signal and converts it in the dongle. Nothing fancy at all.

[S w a t s o n]

8 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Are you intentionally failing to understand that the USB-C port has a standard spec for outputing Analog audio. If this was forced to be complied with... all the passive adapters would work with every phone.

 

The digital variant is taking normal USB data, and doing the same exact thing as a sound card in making that into analog audio. Unless the dongle is explicitly intelligent to only allow device ID's that are the ones it expects to be plugged in (IE whitelisting specific products), it will work on every usb-c device already. You take a usb audio dac plug it into a computer, you don't have to worry about the manufacturer of the computer because that isn't how it works. It just takes the digital standard signal and converts it in the dongle. Nothing fancy at all.

There is literally no reason to force a standard for analog because you don't specifically need a passive adapter unless you carry around a DAC, and guess what, I guarantee less than 1% of phone users are doing that, all USB-C headphone are active afaik so none of those would use passive mode, only dongles and if you put a dac in the dongle the problem is solved. Good luck trying to get companies with comply to a barely useful spec when USB-PD, the most useful spec other than the PHY and transfer modes isnt even held to

[Curufinwe_wins]

4 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

There is no missing functionality. Windows aero is a design, you can't expect it to be on MacOS

Thats fair, but Google and Microsoft aren't perfect either. 

I'd agree there, but the argument can't be made for that its worse, just used to.

Did you just read any of the other points. AeroSnap is a specific thing yes. AeroSnap equivalents exist on most linux distros by default because it's good. There exist a crapload of OS X applications that allow you to add similar-ish functionality, but most are paid (HyperDock, BetterSnapTool, Slate, Divvy), and none are first party. It is missing functionality. Lacking click through support is missing functionality. Lacking the abilty to move/undock taskbars from the top corner is missing functionality.

 

In windows, missing complete unix terminal support (it now has a bit of a psuedo service) is missing functionality. TimeMachine equivalent by default is missing functionality (backup and store previous versions are two very different things.)

 

 

The argument can be made. It isn't an OS designed for efficient power-use. It shows. Form over function.

[Curufinwe_wins]

9 minutes ago, S w a t s o n said:

There is literally no reason to force a standard for analog because you don't specifically need a passive adapter unless you carry around a DAC, and guess what, I guarantee less than 1% of phone users are doing that, all USB-C headphone are active afaik so none of those would use passive mode, only dongles and if you put a dac in the dongle the problem is solved. Good luck trying to get companies to comply to a barely useful spec when USB-PD, the most useful spec other than the PHY and transfer modes isnt even held to

The phones have their on dacs and, on all but the absolutely shittiest phones, this dac is far superior to anything you will put in a dongle. Simply because of the power and size restraints that exist in a dongle that are dramatically reduced in the full phone. The current lack of forced standard is why we have dongle hell. Like "What is the problem? Just put a DAC in the dongle..." is the entire reason this article exists. Obviously the problem hasn't been solved, or this article wouldn't exist. 

 

Making a passive usb headphone is cheaper than an active one. Hell it is literally only changing the connector.

 

All of this is completely tangential to my point. Which was that it is completely hypocritical to want PD enforced, while not wanting the part of the SPEC that actually pertains to this topic, and would prevent the problem in the first place, enforced.

[Nowak]

7 hours ago, Enderman said:

Just do it normally and put the DAC in the adapter or the headphones.

Pushing analog through USB C doesn't reduce the need for a dongle or USB C headphones anyway.

Alternatively, have a headphone jack.

 

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, NowakVulpix said:

Alternatively, have a headphone jack.

 

Why, when you can easily get USB C headphones and not need to have another opening on the phone.

Also don't need a 3.5mm to USB C adapter

[Nowak]

1 minute ago, Enderman said:

Why, when you can easily get USB C headphones and not need to have another opening on the phone.

Also don't need a 3.5mm to USB C adapter

Charging while listening to music and also being able to use the same pair of headphones across all your devices instead of just one? USB-C isn't widely adopted outside of mobile yet, my guy.

[Enderman]

3 minutes ago, NowakVulpix said:

Charging while listening to music and also being able to use the same pair of headphones across all your devices instead of just one? USB-C isn't widely adopted outside of mobile yet, my guy.

Never had to charge while listening to phone...

Like, do you crouch down next to the wall when plugged in to listen to music? Or do you need an external power bank because your phone battery doesn't last a day?

 

USB is on most modern laptops, desktop PC motherboards, phones, mice, keyboards, flashlights, etc.

Why would I want to have to use a USB C to 3.5mm adapter to use 3.5mm headphones on a device with USB C.

[Nowak]

1 minute ago, Enderman said:

Never had to charge while listening to phone...

Like, do you crouch down next to the wall when plugged in to listen to music? Or do you need an external power bank because your phone battery doesn't last a day?

 

USB is on most modern laptops, desktop PC motherboards, phones, mice, keyboards, flashlights, etc.

Why would I want to have to use a USB C to 3.5mm adapter to use 3.5mm headphones on a device with USB C.

If your phone's battery has degraded like mine, charging multiple times a day is necessary. Especially when doing something that uses the CPU more, like listening to music. So yes, I have done this "charge while listening to music" thing before.

 

My motherboard has USB-C but only one port and I'm using it for my keyboard so it's already used

My case is from 2014 and does not have USB-C

My Switch has USB-C but it doesn't carry audio over USB-C

My laptop has USB-C but it also has a perfectly good 3.5mm combo jack

My phone has USB-C but I need that for charging

 

Meanwhile, I can use the same 3.5mm headphones across all of these devices. Without adapters. Bliss.

 

Don't think for a second that Apple ditching the 3.5mm jack (and Android OEMs following suit) was to benefit us. It was so Apple could sell AirPods and Beats headphones, and also to work around loopholes with the 3.5mm jack. The adapter is just for people who aren't ready to buy into their expensive wireless ecosystem they'd rather you use. The mobile industry doesn't decide the fate of the jack anyway; that's up to the audio industry, and they aren't keen on ditching a universal standard.

[Curufinwe_wins]

12 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Never had to charge while listening to phone...

Like, do you crouch down next to the wall when plugged in to listen to music? Or do you need an external power bank because your phone battery doesn't last a day?

 

USB is on most modern laptops, desktop PC motherboards, phones, mice, keyboards, flashlights, etc.

Why would I want to have to use a USB C to 3.5mm adapter to use USB C headphones on a device with USB C.

Turns out that gaming on any flagship device lasts far less than a day. And many other use cases (even if much more demanding than just listening to music all days) will require a mid-day recharge. Do you use like a 2ft charging cable? 

 

Cause USB-C headphones are pretty much trash still. Even apple's (definitely class leading) dongle (and the same DAC that is used in their usb-c / wireless airpods) is still a noticeable side by side step down from the "meh" DAC found in Samsung phones, let alone compared to the good phone DACs.

 

Oh. And tiny electronics at the end of cables in commodity devices that experience a lot of wear and tear (earphones) is a serious durability issue. As illustrated by the insane number of durability complaints and low review scores for apple's digital audio solutions.

https://www.apple.com/shop/reviews/MMTN2AM/A/earpods-with-lightning-connector

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35-mm-headphone-jack-adapter

 

[Enderman]

2 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Turns out that gaming on any flagship device lasts far less than a day. And many other use cases (even if much more demanding than just listening to music all days) will require a mid-day recharge. Do you use like a 2ft charging cable? 

It's 3 ft.

And I don't game all day on a mobile device, who would ever do that other than an unemployed elementary school kid? 

Gaming on mobile is also pretty dumb imo.

 

2 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Cause USB-C headphones are pretty much trash still. Even apple's (definitely class leading) dongle (and the same DAC that is used in their usb-c / wireless airpods) is still a noticeable side by side step down from the "meh" DAC found in Samsung phones, let alone compared to the good phone DACs.

Razer, essential, and many other brands have decent options.

Obviously not comparable to $200 earphones but good enough for 99% of people.

[Enderman]

7 minutes ago, NowakVulpix said:

Don't think for a second that Apple ditching the 3.5mm jack (and Android OEMs following suit) was to benefit us. It was so Apple could sell AirPods and Beats headphones, and also to work around loopholes with the 3.5mm jack. The adapter is just for people who aren't ready to buy into their expensive wireless ecosystem they'd rather you use. The mobile industry doesn't decide the fate of the jack anyway; that's up to the audio industry, and they aren't keen on ditching a universal standard.

https://www.quora.com/Was-Apple-the-first-to-remove-the-headphone-jack

[Nowak]

1 minute ago, Enderman said:

https://www.quora.com/Was-Apple-the-first-to-remove-the-headphone-jack

Apple was the one that started the trend. Now we gotta deal with the mess that is USB-C.

 

Whoopee.

[Curufinwe_wins]

6 minutes ago, Enderman said:

It's 3 ft.

And I don't game all day on a mobile device, who would ever do that other than an unemployed elementary school kid? 

Gaming on mobile is also pretty dumb imo.

 

Razer, essential, and many other brands have decent options.

Obviously not comparable to $200 earphones but good enough for 99% of people.

Uhhh... The large number of twitch/youtube streamers making bank on mobile games. Random people on flights, or long trips with nothing better to do. 

 

Not saying it should be an every day thing. Or yeah you are probably an unemployed elementary school kid... but it isn't unreasonable as well. Even two hours of things like Fortnite or Asphalt puts a good 40-75% chunk of your battery gone. Not exactly something you will want to not plug in for if you can. But other things besides games drain that much as well.

 

It may be dumb, but mobile gaming is a bigger market than PC gaming worldwide. More than PC and Console combined.

 

 

3ft is really small btw. The smallest usb cord I carry around/use at my places is 6 ft. Makes it really comfy to use on couches and such close-ish to an outlet. 

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, NowakVulpix said:

Apple was the one that started the trend. Now we gotta deal with the mess that is USB-C.

 

Whoopee.

Apple followed what several android brands started to do a long time ago.

Next time try reading the text in the link.

[Nowak]

Just now, Enderman said:

Apple followed what several android brands started to do a long time ago.

Next time try reading the text in the link.

Yes but when did Android phones other than a couple Oppo phones drop the jack? 2017.