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Athan Immortal

NVIDIA Controls AIB Launch and Driver Distribution - HardOCP

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5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Founders Edition 1080 was $699 and 2080 Founders Edition is $799. The prices have gone up from last generation. Generation over generation prices shouldn't increase, performance should. Inflation is a thing, $100 USD over 2 years could be inflation but the fact is people are complaining because the MSRP has gone up.


Except both performance and price are increasing this time around. It's not like a 2080 is going to perform just like a 1080.

If AMD was stronger in the high end department, Nvidia might have reduced prices but as of now they're just clearing old Pascal stock for those with lower budgets and selling RTX to the topper end segment.

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18 minutes ago, pas008 said:

Oh ram shouldn't be going up either but where are we? Seriously

Added tensor cores to most likely reduce the cuda cores work load

 isn't a thing either

Ok does every one walk around with their hands out?

Um what? Do you even get how product development works? It doesn't matter that there is a performance increase or new generation ram or what ever, that doesn't automatically make the next generation of product more than the last which is the under the same or similar situation, being new when released

 

Your example only works if Pascal had zero development cost to create the architecture, now repeat backwards across every generation. Every new architecture cost money to develop, that's built in to the cost of the product so unless this architecture cost significantly more to develop or materials and parts prices significantly increased the price shouldn't automatically go up just because it's new, the last new generation was also new. Everything is new at some point.

 

Inflation is a reason for general price increases, that is expected and the increase is roughly around inflation type percentages, slightly higher. I'm not complaining about it, just saying that is why people are complaing, cost went up and it's not evident that the 20 series is going to be a big leap in performance so people are disappointed. I myself was never expecting more than 25% performance increase based on the information leading up to the product announcement.

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holy shit the tin foil hats in this thread.

 

If the cards suck, the benchmarks will come out. all they are doing is controlling who gets review samples. they cannot block "unapproved" reviewers from writing their own reviews.

 

oh wait, that doesn't go along with the current agenda..uhh, Nvidia evil blahahghqahgahgh

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2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Um what? Do you even get how product development works? It doesn't matter that there is a performance increase or new generation ram or what ever, that doesn't automatically make the next generation of product more than the last which is the under the same or similar situation, being new when released

 

Your example only works if Pascal had zero development cost to create the architecture, now repeat backwards across every generation. Every new architecture cost money to develop, that's built in to the cost of the product so unless this architecture cost significantly more to develop or materials and parts prices significantly increased the price shouldn't automatically go up just because it's new, the last new generation was also new. Everything is new at some point.

 

Inflation is a reason for general prince increases, that is expected and the increase is roughly around inflation type percentages, slightly higher. I'm not complaining about it, just saying that is why people are complain, cost went up and it's not evident that the 20 series is going to be a big leap in performance so people are disappointed. I myself was never expecting more than 25% performance increase based on the information leading up to the product announcement.

But memory prices are not reducing it plays a role

Fucking plays a role on anyone right now

 

So if I'm telling you to build something out of steel right now or ship something i shouldn't be including steel or gas prices in Prices?

Pascal was how big of a leap over Maxwell?

Oh the biggest jump ever pretty much right?

Ok so that jump should be made again with memory prices? And considering Pascal was like 25 % increase in cuda and slightly lower memory prices compared to these specs 20% cuda but with rt and tensor along with memory increase in specs and price hmm

 

And along with shit competition which dictates more higher prices but to me i don't see that really happening

 

Been buying gpus since 1990s pci agp agp pro pcie12n3

Many generations these last couple have broke the norm and still bitching and complaining

And now we might be on track for better visuals and still complaining like everyone deserves something

 

 

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50 minutes ago, pas008 said:

Multi year i don't know but only thing i can't say to that is resources of keep doing it

And like said many times this is nvidia product not an aibs they just license it 

Which prove many users that argued who's product it really is nvidias aibs just get to make it and then customize it 

No just no, that's like intel or AMD telling motherboard makers which places they can sample to since they provide the chipset the motherboard is based from. It's not defensible. It's the AIB's product made using Nvidia's chip and possibly reference board desgn (which is actually made by an AIB generally)


Delidded 3770k 4.4GHz | Sapphire Nitro+ Special Edition RX 580 1550MHz/2250MHz  | #2 FireStrike Extreme & #2 Superposition 1080p Xtreme | 32GB DDR3 1600MHz

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3 hours ago, S w a t s o n said:

Also yea the whole approved review list is basically GPP, I guess we really can't trust novideo at all

Why are they trying this again when they already got caught out on GPP? Obviously this isn't as egregious as GPP but it's still pretty sketchy.

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1 minute ago, S w a t s o n said:

No just no, that's like intel or AMD telling motherboard makers which places they can sample to. It's not defensible. It's the AIB's product made using Nvidia's chip and possibly reference board desgn (which is actually made by an AIB generally)

Aib for motherboards are dictated on what they can and can't do too

How ment times have they been restricted and then locked down on ime anyways

They are told what they can and cannot do period with their boards like nvidia is doing

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2 minutes ago, pas008 said:

Aib for motherboards are dictated on what they can and can't do too

How ment times have they been restricted and then locked down on ime anyways

They are told what they can and cannot do period with their boards like nvidia is doing

They are restricted to certain technical aspects which makes complete sense. Video card AIBs are also restricted the same way (look at 1070ti factory clock being forced on every card) but they (Intel/AMD) do not restrict sampling or other business matters


Delidded 3770k 4.4GHz | Sapphire Nitro+ Special Edition RX 580 1550MHz/2250MHz  | #2 FireStrike Extreme & #2 Superposition 1080p Xtreme | 32GB DDR3 1600MHz

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5 minutes ago, S w a t s o n said:

They are restricted to certain technical aspects which makes complete sense. Video card AIBs are also restricted the same way (look at 1070ti factory clock being forced on every card) but they (Intel/AMD) do not restrict sampling or other business matters

They might want nda closure like Apple

Apple doesn't just give away their samples to anyone they restrict theirs

Already stated this

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Just now, pas008 said:

They might want nda closure like Apple

Apple doesn't just give away their samples to anyone they restrict theirs

Already stated this

Apple doesn't even give their own repair shops the parts they need, they are probably the worst company to compare to and really need to change their practices


Delidded 3770k 4.4GHz | Sapphire Nitro+ Special Edition RX 580 1550MHz/2250MHz  | #2 FireStrike Extreme & #2 Superposition 1080p Xtreme | 32GB DDR3 1600MHz

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3 hours ago, mr moose said:

If you are really worried about this then just wait till benchmarks from non approved reviewers come out.  Nvidia can't hide shit performance when they are selling their product to literally anyone who can walk into a shop and exchange cash for one.

 

Given they know this and every reviewer out there does too,  I don't think they are trying to curb reviews. Their NDA is no different from anyone else's so it's not likely some grand conspiracy. 

That would be logical, but that doesn't give me much faith.  There's been cases in the past of game companies suppressing reviews until the "last moment" or even slightly after just so they can get that initial wave of sales.  With all the hype and push to pre-order, it's not hard to imagine they'd do the same thing.  Not saying that's what's happening, just saying that imo it's completely within reason to think it could.

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5 minutes ago, pas008 said:

But memory prices are not reducing it plays a role

Fucking plays a role on anyone right now

Not a $100 role. And current ram prices effects Pascal just as much as it effects Turing, new doesn't mean the price must go up, performance increase doesn't mean the price must go up, you should never expect GPU prices to go up just because it's new, something must justify it and it must be over and above the last generation and current factors. Turing isn't in a vacuum, it's in the same environment as everything else is. Either Turing was a significant development cost increase over Pascal and Volta, unlikely, or Nvidia put the price up just to align it with current street prices so it looks less bad.

 

Not that I care about the price increase, I gave you the why people are complaining. Doesn't have to make sense to you that's just why, price tag went up so naturally people are going to complain. People will always find something to complain about, be it prices being much higher than MSRP or the MSRP increasing, or performance increase lower than expected, literally anything can get people complaining.

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Just now, S w a t s o n said:

Apple doesn't even give their own repair shops the parts they need, they are probably the worst company to compare to and really need to change their practices

Not the point

If you don't want leaks you restrict more

 

 

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Just now, pas008 said:

Not the point

If you don't want leaks you restrict more

 

 

Yes the point, you are defending Nvidia and I'm saying your points are either 1. invalid or 2. indefensible


Delidded 3770k 4.4GHz | Sapphire Nitro+ Special Edition RX 580 1550MHz/2250MHz  | #2 FireStrike Extreme & #2 Superposition 1080p Xtreme | 32GB DDR3 1600MHz

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2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Not a $100 role. And current ram prices effects Pascal just as much as it effects Turing, new doesn't mean the price must go up, performance increase doesn't mean the price must go up, you should never expect GPU prices to go up just because it's new, something must justify it and it must be over and above the last generation and current factors. Turing isn't in a vacuum, it's in the same environment as everything else is. Either Turing was a significant development cost increase over Pascal and Volta, unlikely, or Nvidia put the price up just to align it with current street prices so it looks less bad.

 

Not that I care about the price increase, I gave you the why people are complaining. Doesn't have to make sense to you that's just why, price tag went up so naturally people are going to complain. People will always find something to complain about, be it prices being much higher than MSRP or the MSRP increasing, or performance increase lower than expected, literally anything can get people complaining.

People will bitch because nvidia

 

And 280 cost how much how long ago?

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3 minutes ago, pas008 said:

Not the point

If you don't want leaks you restrict more

 

 

and that's your opinion you have that right

But nvidia had been locking down their ip for last 2 gens why not even more now to protect themselves?

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Just now, pas008 said:

People will bitch because nvidia

 

And 280 cost how much how long ago?

$650, inflation adjusts to $768.68

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w07jS5X.png

EDIT: previous version arranged by relative release cycle

Spoiler

OioCfgIh.png

(truncated to 7-20 series above. others below)

GNqvelG.png

 

I had the thought that they're moving the performance-stack-to-naming scheme up one notch, but if the 2080 is only 20% above the 1080 (in non-tensor rendering), then relatively speaking it's a drop in performance since the 2080 actually replaces the 1080ti

 

Pricing source: wikipedia. numbers not adjusted for inflation

Edited by VegetableStu
RTX not GTX ( /)_(\
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1 minute ago, pas008 said:

and that's your opinion you have that right

But nvidia had been locking down their ip for last 2 gens why not even more now to protect themselves?

Yes why not let them just do whatever they want and sit here fully accepting like the sheeple they so desire? roflmfao


Delidded 3770k 4.4GHz | Sapphire Nitro+ Special Edition RX 580 1550MHz/2250MHz  | #2 FireStrike Extreme & #2 Superposition 1080p Xtreme | 32GB DDR3 1600MHz

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1 minute ago, VegetableStu said:

 

 

I had the thought that they're moving the performance-stack-to-naming scheme up one notch, but if the 2080 is only 20% above the 1080, then relatively speaking it's a drop in performance since the 2080 actually replaces the 1080ti

Love the Titan Z and Titan V, off the scale! xD

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1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Love the Titan Z and Titan V, off the scale! xD

Shit I forgot Titan Z was a thing, I haven't heard of anyone mention one or seen one since launch even on ebay or craiglist


Delidded 3770k 4.4GHz | Sapphire Nitro+ Special Edition RX 580 1550MHz/2250MHz  | #2 FireStrike Extreme & #2 Superposition 1080p Xtreme | 32GB DDR3 1600MHz

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4 minutes ago, pas008 said:

How much performance increase

Ah, I think you missed the part where performance increase does not dictate price increase for a new generation.

 

Edit:

FYI 980 Ti was $649 MSRP, 780 Ti $699, 780 $649 MSRP, 680 $499, 580 $499.

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7 minutes ago, S w a t s o n said:

Yes why not let them just do whatever they want and sit here fully accepting like the sheeple they so desire? roflmfao

No I'm looking at pros and cons

Tier change maybe

20 % cuda

faster memory

Tr and tensor

1080ti value retains near 500 instead of last 2 gens 300 780ti and 400 980ti series launch lol ti owner here

 

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