*UPDATED 9/5/2018* Tom's Hardware's Editor in Chief's Controversial RTX Article

[-rascal-]

Tom's Hardware's new Editor-in-Chief, Avram Piltch, recently wrote an article regarding to the upcoming RTX 2080 Ti and 2080, and has been stirring up a storm within the computer hardware community.

The article in question, 'Just But It: Why Nvidia RTX GPUs Are Worth the Money'

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-rtx-gpus-worth-the-money,37689.html

 

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Sept 5 2018 update  (Final Update?)

According to Gamer's Nexus' most recent HW new video, Tom -- as in O.G. founder of Tom's Hardware, Thomas Pabst, has responded.

He too, is JUST as confused as we are!

There might be a Tom + Igor coolab comeback!!

@Igor Wallossek you have any information you wish to share 

 

 

Source (Tom's personal response) : https://www.facebook.com/GamersNexus/posts/10155799307847825

 

 

Quote

...
...
What does Tom think of the article you love so emphatically? 

Well, I’d say Tom would have been less kind than you have been with his assessment! It is ultimately ridiculous, it is indeed suicidal, and its conclusions are epically nonsensical. There is value in being an early adopter? Aren’t we, who are impatiently into the latest tech, sorely aware of what we keep doing to ourselves when we purchase technology at high prices ‘ahead of the curve’? It’s maso-f***ing-chism! We make ourselves paying beta testers, and wait for software (and often other hardware) that will hopefully bless our brand new tech with the meaning and usefulness they simply do not have by the time of our premature purchase! There are no RTX games, but there is value in adopting Turing early, because current games *might* be faster than on our 1080ti SLI setup? Yes, this is madness, and good old Tom is scratching his head no less than you are, Steve! There’s got to be value in masochism!
...
...
I'm not in control of Tom's Hardware anymore, but Igor and I are currently contemplating some kind of come back.

 

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August 31 2018 update

We did it bois! This made it onto the WAN show!

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August 2018 Update (some fine people of the keen LTT community has also shared this additional information in the thread *thumbs up* )

 

As few has already mentioned, Gamers Nexus has received more information on this situation.

Several former Senior Tom's Hardware editors have reached out to Gamer's Nexus regarding to this article, and how Tom's Hardware's U.S. (possibly the parent company, Purch Group, Inc.) is handling this issue.

Quote

Igor Wallossek, former senior contributing editor on Tom's Hardware, notified [Gamer's Nexus] that he purchased an independent licence for the German-speaking area, and fully independently operates Tom's Hardware Germany...
He also posed a forum response in the Tom's Hardware U.S. thread about Avram Piltch's flawed article...in his post, Igor said...

"For me, this article is damaging to my business because it also seriously destroys the name and reputation that all reviewers have built up over a long timer period, including my reputation."

 

Igor also mentioned that he was then issued a 100-year ban for his response post, that is mentioned above. He post was then deleted by, who I am assuming, forum moderator(s).

Not only just Igor but:

Quote

Other former senior editors have also voiced concerns about the 'Just Buy It' article, as it was titled, and some of them have faced similar actions to Igor's ban and post deleting.

 

 

Please don't give me the 100-year ban for this...

Spoiler

 

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EDIT: There is it boys, and from the man himself:

 

Many have expressed their ... confusion and disagreement on this matter on Tom's Hardware's social media -- Twitter for an example

• Paul's Hardware,
• Real Hardware Reviews, 
• Gamer's Nexus
• Stream HPC

 

 

 

 

Gamer's Nexus did the break-down and analysis of Tom's article, here:

 

First time ever, hearing Tech Jesus say

Quote

..... What??! What the F#$ck is this ??! ... Is this satire ?
This entire article is complete lunacy... it actually seems, insane -- like delusional, like the rantings of someone who's just gone so far off the rails, I CAN'T even tell if I've been had.

 

Derek Forrest, from Tom's Hardware, wrote an article, 'Why You Shouldn't By Nvidia's RTX 20-series Graphics Cards (yet)'.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/wait-to-buy-nvidia-geforce-rtx-gpus,37673.html

 

In Avram's article, he even criticizes Derek, another Tom's Hardware staff.

I am sorry, but what?!

Quote

...so many users, including our own Derek Forrest, are advising shoppers to hold off on buying one of Nvidia's RTX graphics cards.
However, what these price-panicked pundits don't understand is that there's value in being an early adopter.

 

From the Article:

Quote

New Technology usually gets cheaper if you wait long enough. So, inevitably, when a game-changing component or device hits the market, many will urge you to stay away until prices drop or a new standard gets wider adoption. That's why, this week, so many users, including our own Derek Forrest, are advising shoppers to hold off on buying one of Nvidia's RTX graphics cards.

However, what these price-panicked pundits don't understand is that there's value in being an early adopter. And there's a cost to either delaying your purchase or getting an older-generation product so you can save money. While we don't have final benchmark results, the new features and enhanced performance of the Turing cards make them worth buying now, even at sky-high prices.
...
The 15-inch Apple Studio display, one of thre first flat panel monitors, cost $1,999 when it came out...in 1998. Tofay, you can get a used one on eBay for under $50 or a new 24-inch monitor for under $150, but if you bought one at the time, you had the opportunity to use a fantastic new technology when other didn't.

 

It will take some time before Ray Tracing becomes widely adopted, and I prefer NOT to be the guinea pig for technology still under heavy development. For an example, look at DX10, DX12, and Vulkan. DX10 never really took off. DX12 has been around since the launch of Windows 10, and look where we are at with it -- same goes for Vulkan. Another one, HBM memory.

15-inch Apple Studio monitor. My family bought a 46" Sony 1080p HDTV when 1080p was a new thing for $2100. 1080p content was barely available. A year or two later, we bought a 40" thinner, better, 1080p HDTV for $499. Now the 46" Sony TV gets barely used. early adopter is not always good. Not just electronics, same goes for items such as vehicles; the first year or two of a new generation / design will have factory defects, and tolerance issues, that gets ironed out over time.

 

How can you just say "just buy it" when nobody has received a review sample, or have done any testing on the RTX GPUs?!

The $150K 2019 new ground-up design Nissan GT-R will be the best car in the world, pre-order it now...I'm sorry, what?

 

In Gamer's Nexus's video...** flashes to Jensen Huang, saying "The more GPUs you buy, the more money you save. That's right.." ** ... that is not how money works. People wait for your review articles, your in-depth testing and analysis before deciding whether or not to make the purchase. 

 

 

The article:

Quote

Let's say you are building a new system or planning a major upgrade and you need to buy a new video card this fall. You could buy the last-generation GTX 1080 Ti for as little as $526, but if you do, you won't be able to take advantage of key RTX features like real-time ray tracing and great 4K gaming performance until your next upgrade.

 

You can always, DISABLE Ray Tracing. You don't need a GTX 2080 Ti to enjoy 4K gaming. The GTX 1080 Ti is capable of gaming at 4K just fine.

Sure, it might not be Ultra settings 144 FPS, but 4K gaming is still possible -- it is not like you need a GTX 2080 to unlock 4K gaming.

I am not going to drop $1700+ CAD on a video card that has not been tested yet.

 

How can you take advantage of Ray Tracing when those games don't exist yet.

People are aware a GTX 1080 Ti is not a GTX 2080 or a GTX 2080 Ti, and it's limitations.

 

 

The article:

Quote

Unless you plan to upgrade your GPU every year, you're going to be stuck with technology that looks much more outdated in 2019 and 2020 than it does in 2018. Yes, there are only 11 announced games that support ray tracing and only 16 that support DLSS (Deep Learning Super Sampling), but there will be a lot more in the months and years ahead. Do you want to put yourself behind the curve?

 

There will be more Ray Tracing supported games as months and years go by. I wouldn't be buying a RTX 2080 when a RTX 4080 comes out...

You are suggesting people should be upgrading their GPUs every year -- that cannot apply to everyone.

What?

 

 

The article:

Quote

According to Nvidia's own numbers, the RTX 2080 delivers between 35 and 125 percent better performance on 4K games than the GTX 1080. The percentages were between 40 and 60 percent for games that did not have special optimizations for the new cards. In other words, you should be able to play existing 4K games smoothly that were either unplayable or choppy on 10-series cards.

 

You cannot just trust nVidia -- or AMD -- and go by their numbers.

We have seen this in our lifetime with Intel, AMD, and past nVidia products...

35% - 125% is too big of a range; this tells us nothing.

This is why reviewers exist!

 

The article:

Quote

When you’re among the first to purchase a new architecture like Nvidia's RTX cards, you take the risk that the technology won't work as well as advertised right away, that you won't find a ton of titles that support its special features and that the price will drop, making you feel like you wasted your money. However, when you pay a premium for cutting-edge components, you're also buying time, time to enjoy experiences.
 

Life is short. How many months or years do you want to wait to enjoy a new experience? You can sit around twiddling your thumbs and hoping that an RTX 2080 gets cheaper, or you can enter the world of ray-tracing and high-speed, 4K gaming today and never look back. When you die and your whole life flashes before your eyes, how much of it do you want to not have ray tracing?

Yes, if new technology like Ray Tracing doesn't work well in the first year or so, because it is still brand-new technology, I think we feel as money is wasted. Why would I get a RTX card knowing this, when I can wait for the Ray Tracing to further develop, and mature in 1-year's time. I can get a RTX 3080 at that point. We don't even know if Ray Tracing will take off ... look at PhysX, and HairWorks.

How can one buy time? How does one do this? What does this mean?

 

How can you enjoy Ray Tracing if it breaks every game you want to play with it enabled?

The RTX cards, as with any GPU in existence, will get cheaper as time goes on.

Why would I want to see and think about Ray Tracing ... when I am dying from a heart attack, or bleeding out in a car accident??

 

The article:

Quote

Second, video card companies know that people are willing to pay a premium price for RTX cards. If you look on Amazon, Newegg or Nvidia's own store, you'll see that many of the cards are already sold out. There's no lack of demand.

You are saying to follow the "unknown" hype bandwagon?

No, we want to see test proven results first.

Like I said before, with the new car analogy...I am not going to buy a $150K 2019 new ground-up design Nissan GT-R when it doesn't exist yet, and haven't been tested on the track or road yet.

[Jurrunio]

Hmm, this guy's name who I'm sure will sound like swearing if I try to pronounce it, is trying to do damage to the site's reputation right away?  This guy needs some psychologists.

[leadeater]

The more GPUs you buy the more money you save

[-rascal-]

8 minutes ago, leadeater said:

The more GPUs you buy the more money you save

 

That...my brain does not compute...

Here it is, from the nVidia CEO himself...

4:47 below:

 

[cj09beira]

hope the check was worth loosing so much credit as a site

[seon123]

RIP Avram Piltch as Tomshardware's new editor in chief 2018-2018. 

[Taf the Ghost]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purch_Group

 

With the PcPer dust up a bit ago, that was really just problems with disclosure. Any of the Purch associated tend to toss up stuff that seems clearly to have been paid for.

[leadeater]

10 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

 

That...my brain does not compute...

Here it is, from the nVidia CEO himself...

4:47 below:

 

Yea I had already watched the video, the part with Patrick was gold lol.

[Dylanc1500]

16 minutes ago, leadeater said:

The more GPUs you buy the more money you save

So if I buy all of the GPUs, I save all of the money?!

[PineyCreek]

16 minutes ago, leadeater said:

The more GPUs you buy the more money you save

All you poor plebs that can't afford to buy a pallet full of that ray-tracing goodness...like me.  Dude should take a economics 101 course.

 

Or maybe he has more dollars than sense.

 

Entire article reads like an undisclosed paid shilling for nVidia.  So much for high-level objectivity.

[desertcomputer]

2 minutes ago, Dylanc1500 said:

So if I buy all of the GPUs, I save all of the money?!

You save all the money for us.

[PineyCreek]

3 minutes ago, Dylanc1500 said:

So if I buy all of the GPUs, I save all of the money?!

Yes.  Also, if you follow that thinking, you can mine all the altcoin using all of the GPUs on all of the mining motherboards, using all the electricity for all of the money you would have saved had you not bought all the GPUs, only for all of the altcoin to suddenly drop due to a currency fluctuation, then you lose all of the money and you have all of the debt because you did all of the things.

 

...and had none of the logic >_>

[Spotty]

Laughed my ass off during the Gamers Nexus video on the issue.
 

Quote

Life is short. How many months or years do you want to wait to enjoy a new experience? You can sit around twiddling your thumbs and hoping that an RTX 2080 gets cheaper, or you can enter the world of ray-tracing and high-speed, 4K gaming today and never look back. When you die and your whole life flashes before your eyes, how much of it do you want to not have ray tracing?

Avram Piltch on his deathbed:

 

 

[PineyCreek]

Just now, Spotty said:

Laughed my ass off during the Gamers Nexus video on the issue.
 

Avram Piltch on his deathbed:

 

 

I want to triple agree with this.  The GN video was on point and hilarious.

[PineyCreek]

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, PineyCreek said:

 

 

[Dylanc1500]

10 minutes ago, PineyCreek said:

Yes.  Also, if you follow that thinking, you can mine all the altcoin using all of the GPUs on all of the mining motherboards, using all the electricity for all of the money you would have saved had you not bought all the GPUs, only for all of the altcoin to suddenly drop due to a currency fluctuation, then you lose all of the money and you have all of the debt because you did all of the things.

 

...and had none of the logic >_>

But if I have all of the GPUs I can control and bend the market to my will. Oh and you can guarantee my will be done. 

 

Just in case it wasn't obvious to others, I was being facetious.

[PineyCreek]

2 minutes ago, Dylanc1500 said:

But if I have all of the GPUs I can control and bend the market to my will. Oh and you can guarantee my will be done. 

 

Just in case it wasn't obvious to others, I was being facetious.

I totally thought you were being serious

[Lathlaer]

but there will be a lot more in the months and years ahead

 

OK, so I'm going to buy a 2080ti NOW because in 3 years there will be more titles supporting Ray Tracing. Totally. Not like in 3 years there will be more powerful GPU better suited to take advantage of that, right? Right?

[Dylanc1500]

Just now, PineyCreek said:

I totally thought you were being serious

I KNEW IT!!

 

You never know lol I've see crazier things happen.... Example A: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-rtx-gpus-worth-the-money,37689.html

[Tech_Dreamer]

i dunno, they brought in a product with a much more advanced feature & they're willing to price it higher for that performance increase, in a nutshell they're in control of the market, when there's no competition to challenge , especially this form of feature is up for grabs for the first time for consumers at this much power,  i'd say it's upto the consumers to choose or let go,  either way it's a win-win for nvidia,  move new cards at a high price or keep selling the 10xx versions at a profit & clear the left over stocks till next iteration makes it obsolete in a way.

[ravenshrike]

 

 

10 minutes ago, leadeater said:

 

 

 

Hey now, that article was an entire guinea's worth of shillings.

[Dylanc1500]

Let's be honest, what is really going on here is Avram really wants to get ahold of that fantabulous leather jacket Jensen makes us all jealous of.

[Stefan Payne]

51 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

Many have expressed their ... confusion and disagreement on this matter on Tom's Hardware's social media -- Twitter for an example

Reminds me of this totally failed (or as we would say here: "inne büchs") Stability experiment from a couple of years ago:

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dual-core-stress-test,1049-26.html

 

The ironic thing is that the Intel Motherboard died while the AMD System worked flawlessly. 

And at the time, it was said that Tomshardware had very good contacts and some even said that the German THG Office was in the same building as Intel Germany....

[Thaldor]

Also it seems Avram Piltch made the normal "Throw s*i* in and run away"-maneuver. No replies, no comments, just the article and off to spend a weekend without brownstorm.