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norsknoobing

Ethernet through walls

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Posted · Original PosterOP

What is the best ethernet cable for me? I want to drill a hole through my floor where the router is standing, then it get's outside. From outside it needs to get through a wall, and then it's finished. Therefore I want a cable that is CAT6 and the tips should be removable (if possible) and stiff enough to pull through the floor.

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You would want an outdoor rated cable if its running on the exterior of a building exposed to elements (Sun and rain) for an extended period of time. You would want to find something with dielectric grease on the inside of the sheath in case it was pierced and water was able to get in. You could get something like THIS or if its just going a short distance outside or going to be tucked under siding just user regular riser cable able just make sure you don't pierce the sheath when entering the building. The riser cable has the spline running through the middle so you'll have less chance of damaging the wires.


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Bear in mind outdoor cable isn't just about physical damage, its UV protected and shielded to reduce RFI.  So you need to make sure its grounded at both ends too.

 

Routers typically don't have a ground, usually only switches with metal cases have the option of adding one.  Although if you get the Ubiquiti RJ45 connectors and cable you can attach a ground manually to the lug where the ground wire attaches.

Normal cable if it gets direct sunlight will crack over time and potentially pickup a lot of RFI causing errors or even damaging the router/switch if lightening strikes nearby.


Router: i5-7200U appliance running pfSense WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD (~700Mbit peak throughput)
ISP: Zen Unlimited Fibre 2 (66Mbit) + Plusnet Unlimited Fibre Extra. (56Mbit)

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Posted · Original PosterOP
12 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Bear in mind outdoor cable isn't just about physical damage, its UV protected and shielded to reduce RFI.  So you need to make sure its grounded at both ends too.

 

Routers typically don't have a ground, usually only switches with metal cases have the option of adding one.  Although if you get the Ubiquiti RJ45 connectors and cable you can attach a ground manually to the lug where the ground wire attaches.

Normal cable if it gets direct sunlight will crack over time and potentially pickup a lot of RFI causing errors or even damaging the router/switch if lightening strikes nearby.

The cable is gonna be under an add-on to my house (no direct sunlight or direct rain/snow), so do I need a so rough cable? Why do I need grounding? I think the cable only needs moisture protection

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Your house walls typically do a decent job of minimising interference but outdoors there is plenty.  Also it helps to prevent lightening from traveling along the cable and frying everything connected at both ends.

As an example, our house got hit once, it never even touched the phone line as far I could tell (it wasn't visibly damaged and running VDSL down the same line now) but there was enough residual energy that it completely blew up the answering machine, phone, modem and PC connected to it, plus the network cards in every PC on the LAN.

 

So yeah, I'd rather play it safe personally.


Router: i5-7200U appliance running pfSense WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD (~700Mbit peak throughput)
ISP: Zen Unlimited Fibre 2 (66Mbit) + Plusnet Unlimited Fibre Extra. (56Mbit)

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On 8/23/2018 at 10:30 PM, Alex Atkin UK said:

Bear in mind outdoor cable isn't just about physical damage, its UV protected and shielded to reduce RFI.  So you need to make sure its grounded at both ends too.

 

Routers typically don't have a ground, usually only switches with metal cases have the option of adding one.  Although if you get the Ubiquiti RJ45 connectors and cable you can attach a ground manually to the lug where the ground wire attaches.

Normal cable if it gets direct sunlight will crack over time and potentially pickup a lot of RFI causing errors or even damaging the router/switch if lightening strikes nearby.

Outdoor cable is not RF shielded.  Plastic does nothing for RF shielding, it just keeps water/bugs/etc out.

 

UTP and STP are completely different things not related to indoor/outdoor ratings.

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34 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

Outdoor cable is not RF shielded.  Plastic does nothing for RF shielding, it just keeps water/bugs/etc out.

 

UTP and STP are completely different things not related to indoor/outdoor ratings.

Technically yes you are correct, but I wouldn't consider cable that isn't STP as proper outdoor cable, thus why I mentioned the Ubiquiti cable.


Router: i5-7200U appliance running pfSense WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD (~700Mbit peak throughput)
ISP: Zen Unlimited Fibre 2 (66Mbit) + Plusnet Unlimited Fibre Extra. (56Mbit)

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10 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Technically yes you are correct, but I wouldn't consider cable that isn't STP as proper outdoor cable, thus why I mentioned the Ubiquiti cable.

You fail to understand how RF interference works.  A house blocks next to no RF energy, so any cable you use inside can be used outside.  Actually, your house generates more RF than it blocks thanks to AC power distribution.

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Why would you need shielding, that is for areas with lots of electrical noise  (industrial etc).

If it is outside, but not exposed to sunlight direct burial might be a good choice for moisture ingress protection, most direct burial cable is filled with "goo".

Also get a wall plate, keystone jack, low voltage wall bracket, and a punchdown tool.

Also remember to PULL cable, not push  

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4 hours ago, skippytheturtle said:

Why would you need shielding, that is for areas with lots of electrical noise  (industrial etc).

If it is outside, but not exposed to sunlight direct burial might be a good choice for moisture ingress protection, most direct burial cable is filled with "goo".

Also get a wall plate, keystone jack, low voltage wall bracket, and a punchdown tool.

Also remember to PULL cable, not push  

So Ubiquiti are talking garbage then and lightening doesn't ever happen?

 

Surely the argument is why NOT use shielding if its potentially safer?


Router: i5-7200U appliance running pfSense WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD (~700Mbit peak throughput)
ISP: Zen Unlimited Fibre 2 (66Mbit) + Plusnet Unlimited Fibre Extra. (56Mbit)

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On 8/25/2018 at 1:39 AM, norsknoobing said:

The cable is gonna be under an add-on to my house (no direct sunlight or direct rain/snow), so do I need a so rough cable? Why do I need grounding? I think the cable only needs moisture protection

There is Cat6 with gel filling inside the tubes that is designed for outdoor use, and typically has slightly thicker plastic coating with better UV protection.
It may be a little bit more expensive than your regular Cat6 cable, but it will be worth it if it helps protect the cable from damage, as replacing the cable buried in the ground could end up being a real PITA.

What is the distance between the two properties that the cable will be buried?

 

22 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Technically yes you are correct, but I wouldn't consider cable that isn't STP as proper outdoor cable, thus why I mentioned the Ubiquiti cable.

This isn't very good advice. As other users have already mentioned, UTP and STP do not equate to indoor/outdoor. STP is designed for areas with high RF interference and will offer no protection against the 'elements' such as moisture damage that the cable may be exposed to outside.

 

If you are concerned about power surges, then most good quality surge protectors come with ethernet RJ45 plugs to help protect equipment against surges through the ethernet cables.


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2 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

So Ubiquiti are talking garbage then and lightening doesn't ever happen?

 

Surely the argument is why NOT use shielding if its potentially safer?

In residential scenarios... lightning, if it hits close enough to do damage, can take out anything designed to receive RF signals (think of all the devices with integrated WiFi).  The power wiring in your house is a larger antenna than the UTP cables as well, and its not shielded either.

 

Also, Ubiquiti is full of crap.  STP also has different driving characteristics (effective impedance) making it unsuitable for most consumer gear.

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1 hour ago, Spotty said:

This isn't very good advice. As other users have already mentioned, UTP and STP do not equate to indoor/outdoor. STP is designed for areas with high RF interference and will offer no protection against the 'elements' such as moisture damage that the cable may be exposed to outside.

 

If you are concerned about power surges, then most good quality surge protectors come with ethernet RJ45 plugs to help protect equipment against surges through the ethernet cables.

I never advised STP, I advised outdoor-rated STP (or at least that is what I was trying to say but as I initially didn't use the term STP it seems people misunderstood what I meant).


Router: i5-7200U appliance running pfSense WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD (~700Mbit peak throughput)
ISP: Zen Unlimited Fibre 2 (66Mbit) + Plusnet Unlimited Fibre Extra. (56Mbit)

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43 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

In residential scenarios... lightning, if it hits close enough to do damage, can take out anything designed to receive RF signals (think of all the devices with integrated WiFi).  The power wiring in your house is a larger antenna than the UTP cables as well, and its not shielded either.

 

Also, Ubiquiti is full of crap.  STP also has different driving characteristics (effective impedance) making it unsuitable for most consumer gear.

I guess I may have misunderstood them recommending it for their equipment as a claim it was good for ALL outdoor uses.  Live and learn I guess.


Router: i5-7200U appliance running pfSense WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD (~700Mbit peak throughput)
ISP: Zen Unlimited Fibre 2 (66Mbit) + Plusnet Unlimited Fibre Extra. (56Mbit)

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8 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

I never advised STP, I advised outdoor-rated STP (or at least that is what I was trying to say but as I initially didn't use the term STP it seems people misunderstood what I meant).

 

On 8/25/2018 at 6:06 AM, Alex Atkin UK said:

Also it helps to prevent lightening from traveling along the cable and frying everything connected at both ends.

As an example, our house got hit once, it never even touched the phone line as far I could tell (it wasn't visibly damaged and running VDSL down the same line now) but there was enough residual energy that it completely blew up the answering machine, phone, modem and PC connected to it, plus the network cards in every PC on the LAN.

 

So yeah, I'd rather play it safe personally.


STP is designed to block out RF intereference and crosstalk, such as interference from a bunch of other cables and equipment running alongside, such as in data centres and other installations. It does not protect against lightning strike. A thin piece of aluminium foil wrapped around the copper wires is not going to protect shit against 100,000,000 volts of electricity hitting it.


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5 minutes ago, Spotty said:

 


STP is designed to block out RF intereference, such as interference from a bunch of other cables and equipment running alongside, such as in data centres and other installations. It does not protect against lightning strike. A thin piece of aluminium foil wrapped around the copper wires is not going to protect shit against 100,000,000 volts of electricity hitting it.

I believe Ubiquiti use much more than that as its intended for their external WiFi kit.  Granted its not going to prevent a direct hit.

 

But like I said, my router got fried once from an indirect hit and the phone cable is not that different to the copper wire Ubiquiti have running along their cable, so logically it WOULD help in that case.

 

Now the issue of impedance being different, I'm curious about that as while the switch might be designed to handle that, its still normal NICs at the other end - so how does that work?


Router: i5-7200U appliance running pfSense WiFi: Ubiquiti nanoHD (~700Mbit peak throughput)
ISP: Zen Unlimited Fibre 2 (66Mbit) + Plusnet Unlimited Fibre Extra. (56Mbit)

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6 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Now the issue of impedance being different, I'm curious about that as while the switch might be designed to handle that, its still normal NICs at the other end - so how does that work?

Depends on the gear its attached to and how modern equipment handles it.  As I understand it, the maximum cable lengths generally will not fall into spec when using STP.  Some cheap gear my not work properly with it as well, but this is very uncommon with modern equipment.

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