Chinese companies Huawei and ZTE banned from 5G infrastructure in Australia due to security concerns

[Spotty]

Source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-23/huawei-banned-from-providing-5g-mobile-technology-australia/10155438

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45281495

Source: https://www.itnews.com.au/news/vodafone-warns-investment-uncertainty-after-huawei-5g-ban-500718

 

Chinese telecommunications companies Huawei and ZTE have been banned from providing infrastructure for the upcoming rollout of 5G mobile network coverage in Australia due to National Security Concerns.
 

Quote

The Federal Government has banned Chinese-owned tech giant Huawei from taking part in the rollout of 5G mobile infrastructure over national security concerns.

The Government said it would be interpreting rules announced last year as disqualifying any company that was "likely subject to extrajudicial directions from a foreign government that conflict with Australian law".
_{http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-23/huawei-banned-from-providing-5g-mobile-technology-australia/10155438}

The ban is in response to relatively new Chinese laws which state that any Chinese organisation must co-operate and assist with the Chinese government with state intelligence work.

Quote

Ban clearly directed at countering Chinese law: expert

Danielle Cave, senior analyst at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute's International Cyber Policy Centre, said the Government's decision was the right one.

She said Australia's ban on telecommunication companies "likely subject to extrajudicial directions" was clearly directed at addressing China's 2017 national intelligence law.

That country's new regulations demand that "any organisation or citizen shall support, assist, and cooperate with state intelligence work".
_{http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-23/huawei-banned-from-providing-5g-mobile-technology-australia/10155438}

This follows on from Huawei similarly banned in 2012 from supplying infrastructure to Australia's National Broadband Network (NBN), which saw fixed line broadband communications upgraded* (debateable) and remodelled across the country.

Spoiler

Quote

Huawei was famously barred from tendering for work on the national broadband network in 2012 over concerns about backdoors in its products, enabling cyber attacks from China.

_{https://www.itnews.com.au/news/australian-mps-still-scared-of-huawei-439532}

This isn't isolated to Australia either, with the United States Government taking a hard line approach to the Chinese companies due to the same security concerns, notably blocking Huawei from being able to bid for any Government contracts.

 

Vodafone Australia, which has been trialling 5G technology provided by Huawei, has criticised the decision to ban the Chinese companies from providing infrastructure, claiming that it could cause investor uncertainty leading up to the rollout of the new network.

Quote

Vodafone Australia has criticised the government’s decision to ban Huawei from local 5G networks, arguing the decision could change the economics of planned builds.
"This decision, which has been dropped on the eve of the 5G auction, creates uncertainty for carriers' investment plans.

"This decision is a significant change which fundamentally undermines Australia’s 5G future, and we will consider what it means for our business."

Vodafone is known to have trialled 5G equipment from both Huawei and Ericsson. The telco also spoke about 5G last week at Huawei’s Australian partner summit.

_{https://www.itnews.com.au/news/vodafone-warns-investment-uncertainty-after-huawei-5g-ban-500718}

 

I'm really not surprised that they have been formally blocked from providing equipment. Lots of countries, even Australia, have been blocking Chinese telecommunications from providing infrastructure due to security concerns. Hopefully it won't set the rollout of 5G back significantly.
I'm curious how much a decision like this would hurt companies like Huawei and ZTE? Large scale international contracts like these must have a significant impact on these companies, though Huawei still appears to be performing strong even after similar bans previously in the USA which is a much larger market than Australia.

[ItsMitch]

tl;dr fuck china

[Amazonsucks]

Good

[Angel102]

can't say I'm surprised, the Chinese government has been doing things like this for years, saying that so do the US and other governments.

[Hip]

China does the same as the US with Apple.

[mynameisjuan]

Huawei already has enterprise switches for ISPs around the world including Aus. So why does it matter? If they are spying they already have years of data. 

 

I highly doubt Huawei is too. 

[Spotty]

6 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Huawei already has enterprise switches for ISPs around the world including Aus. So why does it matter? If they are spying they already have years of data. 

 

I highly doubt Huawei is too. 

Apparently there are fundamental differences in the way the technologies function, and in particular greater possibility for outside monitoring and control on newer 5g networks that rely more heavily than previous networks on software for automation and control.

 

Quote

As we move into 5G, a greater proportion of the network is controlled by software," said Mr Newman.

"There is an argument that in this software realm, concerns about who is managing the network and where from are heightened."

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45281495

 

Quote

It argued that because 5G networks involved more sensitive network functions being pushed out of the core and processed at the edge, the potential attack surface of 5G networks is much greater than for previous generations of mobile networks.

Over time, the government said it expected “the distinction between the core and the edge will disappear”.

“This shift introduces new challenges for carriers trying to maintain their customers’ security, as sensitive functions move outside of the highly protected core environment,” the government said.

“This new architecture provides a way to circumvent traditional security controls by exploiting equipment in the edge of the network – exploitation which may affect overall network integrity and availability, as well as the confidentiality of customer data.

https://www.itnews.com.au/news/huawei-zte-banned-from-australian-5g-networks-500708

[mynameisjuan]

2 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Apparently there are fundamental differences in the way the technologies function, and in particular greater possibility for outside monitoring and control on newer 5g networks that rely more heavily than previous networks on software for automation and control.

In the end they both pass traffic that can be read. More or less software control over this doesnt mean much. 

[vorticalbox]

46 minutes ago, Amazonsucks said:

Good

Care to expand with an argument? maybe a personal opinion or feeling?

 

back on topic, does anyone else feel like this is just plain bullying? The US government has no problems trying to force companies to cooperate but when China does suddenly it's a bad thing that must be stopped.

[Lurick]

2 minutes ago, vorticalbox said:

Care to expand with an argument? maybe a personal opinion or feeling?

 

back on topic, does anyone else feel like this is just plain bullying? The US government has no problems trying to force companies to cooperate but when China does suddenly it's a bad thing that must be stopped.

Because "they" are evil and "we" are good

[LAwLz]

2 minutes ago, vorticalbox said:

back on topic, does anyone else feel like this is just plain bullying? The US government has no problems trying to force companies to cooperate but when China does suddenly it's a bad thing that must be stopped.

I also think it's funny that it's Australia who are worried.

You know, Australia, the country currently trying to push a law which would force companies to assist their intelligence services with obtaining data from people.

 

So they are OK with it when they are the ones potentially gaining the information, but as soon as China might be able to influence what a company does with their products all of a sudden it is a massive security risk and the entire company should be banned.

Not sure what I should call this.

Hypocrisy? Xenophobia?

[Angel102]

6 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I also think it's funny that it's Australia who are worried.

You know, Australia, the country currently trying to push a law which would force companies to assist their intelligence services with obtaining data from people.

 

So they are OK with it when they are the ones potentially gaining the information, but as soon as China might be able to influence what a company does with their products all of a sudden it is a massive security risk and the entire company should be banned.

Not sure what I should call this.

Hypocrisy? Xenophobia?

it's called Real Politik, and has existed as long as governments have.

[Spotty]

4 minutes ago, vorticalbox said:

back on topic, does anyone else feel like this is just plain bullying? The US government has no problems trying to force companies to cooperate but when China does suddenly it's a bad thing that must be stopped.

Not really to be honest. We're talking about major nationwide critical communication infrastructure. The government has an obligation to ensure that such infrastructure is protected from potentially hostile foreign governments.

You can still purchase consumer Huawei products in Australia.

 

10 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

More or less software control over this doesnt mean much. 

It does if one gives the ability to remotely switch it off at the push of a button, for example in the event of a military invasion and the invading party wants to disrupt communications.

(I don't know if the level of software control and automation on the planned 5g network would allow such control, but just using it as an example)

 

4 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I also think it's funny that it's Australia who are worried.

You know, Australia, the country currently trying to push a law which would force companies to assist their intelligence services with obtaining data from people

Good point

To be honest the Australian government has no idea what they're doing. At the moment there's currently an ongoing leadership spill where our prime Minister may be replaced by his own party. This is the 3rd or 4th time this is happened in the last decade too. I can't remember the last time when the leader we elected made it through a full term without being replaced.

[mynameisjuan]

2 minutes ago, Spotty said:

It does if one gives the ability to remotely switch it off at the push of a button, for example in the event of a military invasion and the invading party wants to disrupt communications.

(I don't know if the level of software control and automation on the planned 5g network would allow such control, but just using it as an example)

Huawei switches are controlled by software too, every networking device is. Hell, a rouge BGP would take the world down if they needed to. 

 

There is no more harm 5G towers could do than the Huawei switches already deployed. 

[Drak3]

23 minutes ago, vorticalbox said:

The US government has no problems trying to force companies to cooperate but when China does suddenly it's a bad thing that must be stopped.

The difference being that China uses it for political suppression, they're actively oppressing their people.

 

The US is not.

[asus killer]

I guess Australians prefer to be spied only by Americans. You'll create a NSA monopoly and that's never good. 

[Angel102]

9 minutes ago, asus killer said:

I guess Australians prefer to be spied only by Americans. You'll create a NSA monopoly and that's never good. 

US and Australian intelligence services work very closely together already, just like US and UK agencies.

[LAwLz]

32 minutes ago, asus killer said:

I guess Australians prefer to be spied only by Americans. You'll create a NSA monopoly and that's never good. 

23 minutes ago, Angel102 said:

US and Australian intelligence services work very closely together already, just like US and UK agencies.

Was just about to say the same thing Angel did.

 

Australia has a very tight relationship with the US has a join cooperation when it comes to data gathering and other intelligence service business.

After WW2 Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UK and the US joined forces and created "Five Eyes".

[asus killer]

40 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Was just about to say the same thing Angel did.

 

Australia has a very tight relationship with the US has a join cooperation when it comes to data gathering and other intelligence service business.

After WW2 Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UK and the US joined forces and created "Five Eyes".

I guess if you spy on your own people you really don't want others to do it. Makes sense.

[mr moose]

The absolute insistence of some people to peddle a personal ideals in face of clear and present facts is astounding.    Australia has not introduced laws that help it spy on people and this is merely a conflict of technicalities.  Something the Australian people are fortunate enough to have in writing and can look it up for themselves.  We can also hold out government to account for all these said laws and decisions in our high court.   As a resident with a 20 years of watching and investigating politics in my own country,  I can assure you most people on these forums are only a step away from the loony farm with the issues they try to present as "facts"

[spartaman64]

15 hours ago, Drak3 said:

The difference being that China uses it for political suppression, they're actively oppressing their people.

 

The US is not.

not that we know of

[Arika]

So wait, what about Xiaomi? Their phones are popular as hell in Australia at the moment, they are also chinese

[captain_to_fire]

19 hours ago, Spotty said:

I'm really not surprised that they have been formally blocked from providing equipment. Lots of countries, even Australia, have been blocking Chinese telecommunications from providing infrastructure due to security concerns. Hopefully it won't set the rollout of 5G back significantly.

There's always Nokia and Alcatel Lucent

10 minutes ago, Arika S said:

So wait, what about Xiaomi? Their phones are popular as hell in Australia at the moment, they are also chinese

I don't think the Australian government is banning any phone from Chinese OEMs but rather, they're banning the use of Huawei's network infrastructure for 5G deployment.

[mr moose]

15 hours ago, Arika S said:

So wait, what about Xiaomi? Their phones are popular as hell in Australia at the moment, they are also chinese

Huwaie make back end hardware for the network.  That is where the hardware is banned.

[Arika]

15 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

I don't think the Australian government is banning any phone from Chinese OEMs but rather, they're banning the use of Huawei's network infrastructure for 5G deployment.

 

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Huwaie make back end hardware for the network.  That is where the hardware is banned.

that makes sense, i guess i misinterpreted the article. i was thinking it to mean that the handsets would be banned from the 5g network and be unable to connect to it