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Jtalk4456

Apple's claiming their headquarters is worth only $200

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15 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I personally would rather a capitalist society with regulation than a socialist society without drive (my personal opinion).

I would say it seems we're in agreement on that front, though the regulation should be limited and not overly burdensome.

16 minutes ago, mr moose said:

However capitalism can go too far (I.E apple decalring $200) which is exactly what this is

That has nothing to do with capitalism.  At best it's exploiting a loophole, at worst it's blatant lying.  Either way, I wouldn't call it capitalism (anymore than I'd call it socialism, or communism, or any other "ism").

18 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I don't blame capitalism though, I blame government and society for not keeping it in check.

In a truly free market, capitalist system, the only legitimate role of government would be to ensure no blatant abuses of power.  I wouldn't consider what Apple is doing an abuse of power, though.  Utterly ridiculous, but not an abuse.

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3 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

 

That has nothing to do with capitalism.  At best it's exploiting a loophole, at worst it's blatant lying.  Either way, I wouldn't call it capitalism (anymore than I'd call it socialism, or communism, or any other "ism").

 

You can't see how they have capitalized on this.  Regardless of whether we call it a loophole or a lie, they are capitalising on the fact they can do it.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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16 minutes ago, Morgan Everett said:

I tend to think that frivolous ways to avoid taxation like this should be punishable by further, punitive taxation. If certain companies have no sense of corporate responsibility, they can learn the hard way. 

Company tax credit score, the higher the score the lower the tax rate :). Then the accountants can play the fine art of paying enough tax to get a lower tax rate to pay less tax, by paying more tax.... xD.

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1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Company tax credit score, the higher the score the lower the tax rate :). Then the accountants can play the fine art of paying enough tax to get a lower tax rate to pay less tax, by paying more tax.... xD.

we have that here, they call them income tax brackets,  there's a stupid crossover between each one where by going just into the next pay bracket you actually pay more tax than you got in the pay rise,  meaning your weekly take home goes down from an increased pay packet.  Fortunately you get it all back at he end of the year but still going a whole year on a lower take home isn't easy for some people.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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1 hour ago, mr moose said:

we have that here, they call them income tax brackets,  there's a stupid crossover between each one where by going just into the next pay bracket you actually pay more tax than you got in the pay rise,  meaning your weekly take home goes down from an increased pay packet.  Fortunately you get it all back at he end of the year but still going a while year on a lower take home isn't easy for some people.

We have that here as well, but that's for personal tax not corporate (far as I know).

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Just now, leadeater said:

We have that here as well, but that's for personal tax not corporate (far as I know).

yes, income tax not corporate, your post about paying more to pay less reminded me of it.  


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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Just now, leadeater said:

We have that here as well, but that's for personal tax not corporate (far as I know).

We have this thing here where companies can lie out the ass for financial gain which is completely fine.  But, if I were to do it I'd be fined and possibly arrested for fraud even if I argued that I was just haggling.  


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7 hours ago, mr moose said:

You can't see how they have capitalized on this.  Regardless of whether we call it a loophole or a lie, they are capitalising on the fact they can do it.

Id hardly say that corrupt socialist elements like Tim Cook and his cronies represent capitalism at work.

 

Apple literally makes their garbage in communist China using Foxconn slave labour.

 

Capitalism doesnt include colluding with communists to use slaves to undercut competition. Corporate welfare or slave using companies like Amazon and Apple follow the socialist/communist principles much more than capitalist.

 

Its a typical ploy of those in favor of socialism to point out abusive companies like Apple as a reason why capitalism doesnt work, but its a false premise since there is nothing free market capitalist about using communist slaves and cheating on your taxes.

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7 hours ago, Amazonsucks said:

Id hardly say that corrupt socialist elements like Tim Cook and his cronies represent capitalism at work.

 

Apple literally makes their garbage in communist China using Foxconn slave labour.

 

Capitalism doesnt include colluding with communists to use slaves to undercut competition. Corporate welfare or slave using companies like Amazon and Apple follow the socialist/communist principles much more than capitalist.

 

Its a typical ploy of those in favor of socialism to point out abusive companies like Apple as a reason why capitalism doesnt work, but its a false premise since there is nothing free market capitalist about using communist slaves and cheating on your taxes.

 

none of that makes sense,  you are trying to say the act of capitalising on a cheap labor in china is not capitalizing because why now? 

 

Your rhetoric about Tim cooks political ideals don't change what constitutes capitalist behaviour.

 

Also just so you know, china is becoming more and more capitalist than socialist.

https://www.cato.org/policy-report/januaryfebruary-2013/how-china-became-capitalist

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0486613417717046

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/joac.12121

 

 

There is no real difference to the average worker in an extreme capitalist or extreme socialist country, they both work for terrible low wages, have poor living conditions and are oppressed by larger entities with power.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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8 hours ago, Amazonsucks said:

Id hardly say that corrupt socialist elements like Tim Cook and his cronies represent capitalism at work.

 

Apple literally makes their garbage in communist China using Foxconn slave labour.

If you fail to see how slave labour is the ultimate capitalistic utopia I don't think you understand what capitalism is... China is communist only in name for the most part, if they were truly communists foxconn wouldn't exist and there'd be state sponsored companies in its place (I'm not saying that would be a good solution).

 

Also, are you telling me TIM COOK, ceo of the most valuable company in the world that sells extremely expensive luxury commodities, is a socialist extremist...? Again, I don't think you know what capitalism and socialism are.


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17 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

 

Capitalism is literately the noun of the verb capitalise, which means to to take advantage of or to provide with capital.  It is basically profit driven economy that takes advantage where it can.  I personally would rather a capitalist society with regulation than a socialist society without drive (my personal opinion).  However capitalism can go too far (I.E apple decalring $200) which is exactly what this is, apple are capitalising on the government who is allowing them to start negotiations on value at such a low figure.    I don't blame capitalism though, I blame government and society for not keeping it in check.

 

 

Not every advantage offered is taken, no,  but that doesn't mean someone else shouldn't take advantage of it. The government allows it, if you don't like it ask your governments to stop allowing it.

I agree but I think we as a society can do more than just government regulations.

 

We essentially allow "business" people to be taught in colleges that "take as much as you can however you can as often as you can". We should be teaching how that mentality is 100% harmful to any society and is often the downfall of said society. Regardless of what that society claims to be (the same thing happens in communist societies and socialist societies).

 

 

Overall, I'd love to see regulation limiting the amount of money shareholders are allowed to make back from a company they invest in. At least half of that money rightfully belongs to the people who actually did the fucking work. I'd love to see mandatory profit sharing because it works better than simply raising minimum wage. Sure the companies can still raise their prices, but that only means the people doing the work get more money as well.

 

 

Speaking from a technological standpoint though, this is all folly. We need to focus on getting to a post-scarcity society and dealing with all of the problems that entails. Namely a complete lack of motivation and even potentially a situation where the overwhelming and ridiculous majority of society have no idea how to do anything that could be called "work".

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47 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

I agree but I think we as a society can do more than just government regulations.

 

We essentially allow "business" people to be taught in colleges that "take as much as you can however you can as often as you can". We should be teaching how that mentality is 100% harmful to any society and is often the downfall of said society. Regardless of what that society claims to be (the same thing happens in communist societies and socialist societies).

 

 

Overall, I'd love to see regulation limiting the amount of money shareholders are allowed to make back from a company they invest in. At least half of that money rightfully belongs to the people who actually did the fucking work. I'd love to see mandatory profit sharing because it works better than simply raising minimum wage. Sure the companies can still raise their prices, but that only means the people doing the work get more money as well.

 

 

Speaking from a technological standpoint though, this is all folly. We need to focus on getting to a post-scarcity society and dealing with all of the problems that entails. Namely a complete lack of motivation and even potentially a situation where the overwhelming and ridiculous majority of society have no idea how to do anything that could be called "work".

Vote with your wallets is great, but unfortunately  people are both greedy and lazy in first world countries.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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12 hours ago, Sauron said:

If you fail to see how slave labour is the ultimate capitalistic utopia I don't think you understand what capitalism is... China is communist only in name for the most part, if they were truly communists foxconn wouldn't exist and there'd be state sponsored companies in its place (I'm not saying that would be a good solution).

 

Also, are you telling me TIM COOK, ceo of the most valuable company in the world that sells extremely expensive luxury commodities, is a socialist extremist...? Again, I don't think you know what capitalism and socialism are.

Wow where to begin. Apple extremely expensive luxury goods ????

 

Try a Parmigiani Fleurier watch instead. Apple is cheap, mass produced junk. It is not remotely in the sphere of actual luxury goods or rare commodities.

 

Slavery is the ultimate socialist and communist utopia. Need proof? Look at all the failed socialist and communist states that degenerate into slavedriving shitholes like N. Korea, USSR, Venezuela... 

 

There is plenty of slavery today in socialist/communist countries around the world. Socialism incentivizes corruption on every level while laissez faire capitalism incentivizes hard work.

 

Im sorry that your public education brainwashed you so badly into believing that 2+2=5.

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On 8/20/2018 at 4:21 AM, mr moose said:

we have that here, they call them income tax brackets,  there's a stupid crossover between each one where by going just into the next pay bracket you actually pay more tax than you got in the pay rise,  meaning your weekly take home goes down from an increased pay packet.  Fortunately you get it all back at he end of the year but still going a whole year on a lower take home isn't easy for some people.

In the U.S. you are only taxed a higher amount on the income above the tax bracket. There is no such thing as going above the pay bracket, then taking home less due to income taxes unless you lose eligibility for some form of financial aid as a result.

 

https://www.creditkarma.com/tax/i/how-tax-brackets-work/

 

Common mistake.

You're not in the U.S. and idk why I thought you were. RIP income taxes.

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2 hours ago, JoeyDM said:

In the U.S. you are only taxed a higher amount on the income above the tax bracket. There is no such thing as going above the pay bracket, then taking home less due to income taxes unless you lose eligibility for some form of financial aid as a result.

 

https://www.creditkarma.com/tax/i/how-tax-brackets-work/

 

Common mistake.

Something the US does that makes life a little easier for the common worker.  Good to see.

 

In Australia Tax brackets used to have set contribution values per bracket, I have fallen victim to it several times.  Given I have been self employed for the last 9 years it may have changed since then.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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14 hours ago, mr moose said:

Something the US does that makes life a little easier for the common worker.  Good to see.

 

In Australia Tax brackets used to have set contribution values per bracket, I have fallen victim to it several times.  Given I have been self employed for the last 9 years it may have changed since then.

Fuckin RIP :( one of the few things the U.S. does okay. Idk why I thought you were in the U.S. I'm not sure who I was thinking of.

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Claiming their headquarters is worth only $200 is very unbelievable. With almost 500 open cases dating back to 2004, I think their intention is to keep the case in the court and never pay the actual taxes. But, obviously in the end, they are the ones that will suffer the consequences in their tax avoidance issues. 

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3 hours ago, Maria Phene said:

Claiming their headquarters is worth only $200 is very unbelievable. With almost 500 open cases dating back to 2004, I think their intention is to keep the case in the court and never pay the actual taxes. But, obviously in the end, they are the ones that will suffer the consequences in their tax avoidance issues. 

What consequences exactly?

 

The only one(s) that suffer(s) is the government as a whole, the government that allows these tactics to exist. Apple (and other companies) could only suffer if people start to give a shit (which as a whole they won't, and shouldn't) or if the company's lawyer's go so far past a line that they get hit with a massive fine that's larger than the benefits (which does really happen).


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