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Jtalk4456

Apple's claiming their headquarters is worth only $200

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1 hour ago, Jtalk4456 said:

First off, just because others are doing it doesn't make it right. Taken from your article:

There is nothing illegal or unethical about appealing assessments. Companies are entitled to contest property assessments they believe are done improperly or inaccurately. But the tactics taken by Genentech, Apple and other large corporations, county assessors say, border on abusing the system.

Second it doesn't give a specific example of a google case undervaluing to that level, and I agree with swatson that taking averages is a bad way to look at that. I'd need some actual case details to believe fully that google is doing the same. Having said that, I have no doubt many of these companies are using this tactic, including google.

A bit of rant ahead:

The difference is where you assume i'm defending google. I have no intention of defending google if they are doing this, nor any company. The reason you assume i'm all against apple is because the people who are against apple are against it not for one single reason, but for many. Other companies do one thing, maybe two things wrong that really hit the news. Every time we turn around though, apple is in a different fight. it was headphone jacks, it was bricking phones repaired by 3rd parties after updates, it was disabling touchid after 3rd party repairs, it's notches, it's refusing to fix linus's pro, it's doing terrible repair jobs on snazzys pro with the vesa mount, it's the macbook keyboard, denying there's anything wrong with the keyboard, bad engineering practices, throttling phones because the battery is crap, then CHARGING to replace the battery, never admitting any wrong anywhere, not allowing authorized service providers to repair and rather force them to replace, but then not providing a supply of parts, the list goes on and on. and the worst part is, when we get upset at these stories so constantly, there's a barrage of comments from apple lovers defending everything. And I'm not talking just arguing price vs value. Even on this post, where apple is trying to intentionally lowball their taxes to a ridiculous degree, there's people like you saying either it's just business, it's smart, it's legal, or everyone's doing it. And especially with regards to the first company to hit the trillion dollar market cap, I expect to see better from the companies unofficially running our world. If the highest value company has to resort to flat out lying and trying to short the government of the taxes that help it's customers, then there's a problem. They can afford to be the richest, but they can't manage to pay their taxes? Families across the US exist well within the poverty and somehow manage to pay their taxes, but the company that can afford a billion dollar home, and not their only home mind you, can't scrape enough together to do the right thing? I expect more from these companies. And if google does the same thing and there's a big story, people will be pissed! you won't see the same degree of people defending them or samsung or lg from bad press the way apple is shielded. Take samsung as a good example. with the note 7, they were ripped into. There wasn't a crowd of people standing around samsung saying that it's alright because having a defect is legal. Vast crowds weren't praising and cheering them as they quickly rolled out replacements at no charge, and then did a final recall quickly when the replacements had a different defect. They developed a whole new testing/inspection procedure for their batteries and took an estimated 9 billion dollar loss from the fiasco. They lost market share. But if apple messes up, "you're using it wrong" and they never admit there's a problem with antennae placement, fans don't get angry at them, and the market share doesn't disappear. It's frustrating to me and many others that Apple is claimed to be of superior quality as to justify their pricing, but their customers never seem to hold them accountable to anywhere near the standard to which the same fans and the rest of us hold every other company we encounter accountable. Personally I don't like the OS, but that's just preference, and I have little problem with their physical products, the problem I have is their business practices. And this article is just another example of the reason I can never use their products.

I agree with almost all of your rant. This practice in general stretches the limits of the system and I would agree that it is abusing the system.  My only point is that other companies are doing this too and the title of the topic suggests that it's only Apple that is undervaluing their properties when protesting their assessments, which is super clickbaity and a misrepresentation of the situation as a whole.  If Google is averaging approximately $20 million in value discrepancy per property you're disputing, it's safe to say they are severely undervaluing their properties.  The only way to know for sure what other companies, like Google, lowballed would be an open records request and I don't care enough to do that.  And I'm not saying you like Google or any other company that does it either, I'm just using them because they are a good example of another tech giant that is doing this.  I despise Apple's anti-consumer practices and the Apple fanboys that think their company can do no wrong, but this is is a different situation than that.

 

And frankly, I think some of the blame must rest with the state of California on this.  This, according to the article, has been going on for decades, yet there has been no effort, as far as I can tell, to shorten the appeal process.  Where I work, properties are reassessed every year.  If you appeal your assessment, usually it's just a few day process.  If you want to drag it out longer, maybe a few months, but at the end of the day the countymakes sure they collect their taxes that year.  If companies can still be appealing stuff going all the way back to 2004, something with the appeals system is broken and should be fixed (but it won't be because of lobbying from all of the tech giants in California).


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1 hour ago, YedZed said:

Related to Canadian Rubles or more valuable?

Hylian Rupees are more valuable than Canadian pesetas. 


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22 hours ago, ScratchCat said:

I raise you ONE HUNDRED TRILLION Zimbwabe DOLLARS!

image.png.d9a5b542beaa061c5083d1bbe1ef62cb.png

 

Apple is generally smart but how the actual **** do they expect to convince a court that the building is worth $200? Even if the land was previously used as a nuclear test site the valuation would be higher.

I'll raise you 999 Trillion Zimbabwe dollars :D

 

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As with all Apple products the sum of it's parts is worth less than what they are selling it for but they add a huge markup and then label it as revolutionary and game breaking

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Posted · Original PosterOP
18 minutes ago, peanuts104 said:

I agree with almost all of your rant. This practice in general stretches the limits of the system and I would agree that it is abusing the system.  My only point is that other companies are doing this too and the title of the topic suggests that it's only Apple that is undervaluing their properties when protesting their assessments, which is super clickbaity and a misrepresentation of the situation as a whole.  If Google is averaging approximately $20 million in value discrepancy per property you're disputing, it's safe to say they are severely undervaluing their properties.  The only way to know for sure what other companies, like Google, lowballed would be an open records request and I don't care enough to do that.  And I'm not saying you like Google or any other company that does it either, I'm just using them because they are a good example of another tech giant that is doing this.  I despise Apple's anti-consumer practices and the Apple fanboys that think their company can do no wrong, but this is is a different situation than that.

I disagree that the topic suggested only apple was doing this. The topic pointed out apple as doing it in such a ridiculous manner. 200 for a world headquarters catches the news. I never mentioned that this was exclusive. Apple is just the one caught recently and the case in question is just plain silly how much they are devaluing the building. The ability to make these arguments is vital to freedom, but the fact that apple is trying so hard to abuse and exploit it for every penny, especially again given they just broke the record for market cap and aren't hurting for money in the least makes this story especially offensive. The amount of taxes being refused the city to use for improvements that would help everyone is ridiculous. all companies take advantage of tax loopholes, but apple straight up takes a jack hammer and makes the hole as big as possible. As for your google argument, that's not a safe assumption at all. Until we see individual details of the cases and the buildings, that's just a bad assumption. Averages don't work for a complicated system like this. Apple we have numbers on, so yes i'm going to ridicule those numbers, they deserve ridiculing. If you provide similar examples for google with actual numbers, I'll ridicule them as needed, but until then, just averaging numbers is not an effective look at a system this large. you say google is averaging 20mil lower than assessment per building, but apple is marking down their headquarters by $999,999,800 just on this one building. 20mil or 999 mil? one is slightly more eggregious than the others. Also with a billion dollar headquarter building, it is possible for two people to have a different judgement on values. 20 mil into 1 billion is a difference in opinion of 2%, where apples example is a 99.99998% difference in opinion.... So again without specific numbers and examples, talking about google and pretending that this article is singling apple out or misrepresenting anything is just not true. Nothing was misrepresented here, I told you what apple did, and there's public record of them doing it. Plain and simple. If record comes out for google, the same can be done with those specifics as needed

Quote

And frankly, I think some of the blame must rest with the state of California on this.  This, according to the article, has been going on for decades, yet there has been no effort, as far as I can tell, to shorten the appeal process.  Where I work, properties are reassessed every year.  If you appeal your assessment, usually it's just a few day process.  If you want to drag it out longer, maybe a few months, but at the end of the day the countymakes sure they collect their taxes that year.  If companies can still be appealing stuff going all the way back to 2004, something with the appeals system is broken and should be fixed (but it won't be because of lobbying from all of the tech giants in California).

I don't know the political climate there, but i doubt this is specific to california. i bet small businesses get a normal appeals process. The difference being a company like apple has money for lots of lawyers and can get it held up in court. lots of cities will be lenient towards certain things to get headquarters because of the jobs and assumed tax revenue. But i don't live there so i may be flat out wrong there

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On 8/15/2018 at 3:53 PM, YedZed said:

Fuck it, I'm going all in. 400 dollars for the entirety of the trillion dollar company's headquarters!

@YedZed I would like to put forward a mystery bag which may or may not have 10,000 USD in it!

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10 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

I’m so sick of this. There are other Apple fanboys thank you. They are also very much worth the price. 2 Years free support and a great mobile OS, not to mention in-house design from the ground up has a cost.

Their phones I would say are well designed and are priced high but so is the competition so it's pretty fair. Their computers on the other hand are not worth the price tag. 

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I'm sick of this as well but it's not just Apple, all companies find loopholes to save money. There's only one solution to this and that's to change the law.

 

We need to get rid of those corrupt individuals in power taking bribes from large companies and put those who are in touch with the modern world in charge. Get rid of the people like those in the Mark Zuckerberg hearing who have no clue about modern technology and the rapid progress of civilisation. 

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3 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

Their phones I would say are well designed and are priced high but so is the competition so it's pretty fair. Their computers on the other hand are not worth the price tag. 

I’n a few years It will be much better once they get their ARM processors in them. 

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14 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I strongly suggest you give up this conversation.

I've had a similar one with mr moose before and he won't give up. No matter what you say, or what logic you put forth, he won't change his mind or admit that what Apple is doing might be considered wrong.

The accusation of mental gymnastics because others believe there is a difference between an outright lie and transparent haggling is solely his.  I don't care what people personally think of the situation, I did not accuse him or anyone of mental gymnastics in order to satisfy their opinion.   That is the difference here.

 

EDIT: also I did admit that people consider what apple are doing is wrong, what I was claiming is that public opinion does not equal facts and just becasue your opinion is "for" doesn't mean every opinion "against" is wrong.  It just means we disagree.

 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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6 hours ago, YedZed said:

Related to Canadian Rubles or more valuable?

$148.23 USD. 

 

So worse than Canadian Rubles? Maybe we'll dub it the New Zealand Peso. 


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So if I destroy the property, I don't have much to owe?


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On 8/16/2018 at 9:40 AM, AluminiumTech said:

I'll raise you 999 Trillion Zimbabwe dollars

I'll raise you the change between my couch cushions.


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On 16.08.2018 at 10:47 PM, mr moose said:

there is a difference between an outright lie and transparent haggling

I think people are outraged because yes, this is technically haggling but the kind of haggling that insults your intelligence. There is haggling and there is haggling, I get it that they are trying to maximize their gain by not paying a single cent over what they absolutely have to but in doing so they broke a threshold of common sense which in turn inspired aggression. 

 

No one likes their intelligence being insulted. When I used to work in sales and a customer wanted a 90% discount "because it's haggling" I immediately lost all the desire to deal with him in good faith. 

 

It adds to the fact that not long ago they were celebrating the news of being the first trillion dollar company. They have the money. Lots of it. 

 

Sure it might be legally acceptable to start haggling with a $200 price but doing so while being the most valuable company in the world is frankly disrespectful. 

 

You mentioned auctions as a comparison. Let's compare scales here because I cannot help but wonder whether auction houses start bidding on a Monet painting with a $5 price.


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8 minutes ago, Lathlaer said:

You mentioned auctions as a comparison. Let's compare scales here because I cannot help but wonder whether auction houses start bidding on a Monet painting with a $5 price.

If you did it would not insult my intelligence, I would know you were taking the piss and move the bid to a more acceptable figure.  There is no need to be insulted by this, it's just business.  If the tax office let me haggle with them like this I would do it all the time,  I don't think they are insulted.

 

In fact the only time I have ever felt insulted by apple themselves is when I they dropped the 64G ipad model and claim that the 128G version is the same price as the 64G was.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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8 hours ago, Lathlaer said:

I think people are outraged because yes, this is technically haggling but the kind of haggling that insults your intelligence. There is haggling and there is haggling, I get it that they are trying to maximize their gain by not paying a single cent over what they absolutely have to but in doing so they broke a threshold of common sense which in turn inspired aggression. 

 

No one likes their intelligence being insulted. When I used to work in sales and a customer wanted a 90% discount "because it's haggling" I immediately lost all the desire to deal with him in good faith. 

 

It adds to the fact that not long ago they were celebrating the news of being the first trillion dollar company. They have the money. Lots of it. 

 

Sure it might be legally acceptable to start haggling with a $200 price but doing so while being the most valuable company in the world is frankly disrespectful. 

 

You mentioned auctions as a comparison. Let's compare scales here because I cannot help but wonder whether auction houses start bidding on a Monet painting with a $5 price.

The thing is that I think it's fine to make a ridiculous valuation when it's initiated by an obnoxious valuation to begin with as far as I'm concerned.

 

If I'm selling something for $600 and someone offers me $300, then I'll either not respond or offer them a special price of $1200 depending on my mood. The former is obviously not an option when you're dealing with the government/taxes.


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19 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

The thing is that I think it's fine to make a ridiculous valuation when it's initiated by an obnoxious valuation to begin with as far as I'm concerned.

Is it really obnoxious to value the land and property at ~1 billion, when it cost them 5 billion to build?

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3 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Is it really obnoxious to value the land and property at ~1 billion, when it cost them 5 billion to build?

The cost to build something very often isn't representative of worth. So, it could still be. 


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12 hours ago, mr moose said:

In fact the only time I have ever felt insulted by apple themselves is when I they dropped the 64G ipad model and claim that the 128G version is the same price as the 64G was.

Well of course it was the same price. Apple said it was, so it is.

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In my mind Apple is more or less a luxury brand for technology not just computers. With that said they are overpriced as a rule. They also control the suply of hardware, and software for their own hardware. I do agree that it was bull they claimed the price for the iPad 128GB was more or less the same when it clearly wasn't. Though if it is in your budget then it really dose not matter what the price per gig is in the end. 

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1 minute ago, ArchieKun said:

 Though if it is in your budget then it really dose not matter what the price per gig is in the end. 

It wasn't in my budget,  The ipad is for my son who has broken the screen.   Replacing it is only viable if they had a 64G version of the current base model, but that is limited to the pro range instead. Which means either downgrading to the 32G or having the screen repaired (which only saves a $100).


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It wasn't in my budget,  The ipad is for my son who has broken the screen.   Replacing it is only viable if they had a 64G version of the current base model, but that is limited to the pro range instead. Which means either downgrading to the 32G or having the screen repaired (which only saves a $100).

Well a peny saved is a penny earned in my opinion.

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