Steve Ballmer , Microsoft.

[mrchow19910319]

I was just browsing youtube and this video popped into my eyes. 

I know very little things about Microsoft, I only knew that Steve Ballmer is the second CEO after Bill Gates. 

In the comment section there are a lot of people said most of the products Microsoft put out during Steve era was trash. 

Windows vista, Bing, and such. 

 

Is it true that he somewhat hindered Microsoft and had a lot of failures? 

I am just curious. 

[Phentos]

Sweaty Steve is to blame for a lot of Microsoft blunders, yes.

 

His most notable blunder was failing to catch on and capitalize on the exploding mobile market around a decade ago when the iPhone essentially created the biggest paradigm shift in telecommunications and the mobile market in decades. That allowed Apple and Google to sink their teeth into that cash cow and dominate the market up to today. Only now is MS actually gaining momentum in the 2 in 1 tablet market with their excellent Surface product lines.

[mrchow19910319]

5 minutes ago, Phentos said:

Sweaty Steve is to blame for a lot of Microsoft blunders, yes.

 

His most notable blunder was failing to catch on and capitalize on the exploding mobile market around a decade ago when the iPhone essentially created the biggest paradigm shift in telecommunications and the mobile market in decades. That allowed Apple and Google to sink their teeth into that cash cow and dominate the market up to today. Only now is MS actually gaining momentum in the 2 in 1 tablet market with their excellent Surface product lines.

to be honest no one thought apple's iphone is gonna be that big.... my 1st iphone was an iphone 4, and I think that retina display is just too hard to resist... no one had a display that is that crispy clear at that point of time.... 

[Phentos]

1 minute ago, mrchow19910319 said:

to be honest no one thought apple's iphone is gonna be that big.... my 1st iphone was an iphone 4, and I think that retina display is just too hard to resist... no one had a display that is that crispy clear at that point of time.... 

At first no one thought the iPhone would radically transform the market, but people did acknowledge that it was a sign of big changes later on. After a while most smartphone manufacturers began copying the slate form factor of the iPhone, and launching the iOS-Android arms race. IMO it was with the release of the iPhone 4 was when the impact on the market was truly realized.

[captain_to_fire]

47 minutes ago, mrchow19910319 said:

In the comment section there are a lot of people said most of the products Microsoft put out during Steve era was trash. 

Windows vista, Bing, and such. 

I can think of some things:

• Windows 8/RT - forcing touch optimized UI and applications to mice/keyboard users (blame it partly on Steven Sinofsky). As it turns out, Windows 8/RT was Microsoft's half-assed response to the iPad [here] [here] . Many in the tech industry back in 2010 thought that the iPad will flop because no one like the Tablet PC but Apple made everyone feel like a sucker because the iPad was successful. [main source]
• Windows Phone 7/8/10 Mobile - can't decide which kernel to use, late in adding features (like VPN, file level encryption, etc) and developer APIs aren't on par with Android and iOS and they don't understand how people use phones.
• Windows Vista - this is just me speculating but I think Windows Vista (codename "Longhorn") was their response to Apple's Mac OS X Tiger with simple features as fast file searching with Spotlight allegedly shocked execs at Microsoft. Unlike Tiger and it's predecessor Mac OS X Leopard, Vista caused "spec shock" because of its absurd system requirements and absurd pricing for six different versions.

Though to be fair, I wasn't also a fan of Satya Nadella's Microsoft. It made Windows 10 a free update but it lead to invasive telemetry. Office became a subscription service and he failed to save W10M.

Edited August 12, 2018 by captain_to_fire
added some of the slides that shows Microsoft was targetting the iPad with Windows 8/RT

[Phentos]

1 minute ago, captain_to_fire said:

Windows 8/RT - forcing touch optimized UI

*Shudders*

 

Windows 8... I'm glad it's basically dead.

[captain_to_fire]

7 minutes ago, Phentos said:

*Shudders*

 

Windows 8... I'm glad it's basically dead.

I'd say though I have less problems with Windows 8.1 than Windows 10. Windows 10 nowadays kinda feels like TouchWiz from 2012-2013 where they cram so many half-baked features that no one uses until it drags the system down.

[LAwLz]

You can't pinpoint the vast catalogue of failures from Microsoft to a single person. The CEO does not control as much as some people think. There's still chefs in the different sectors, there's still the board of directors voting on some of the decisions being made, and so on.

 

You could look at stock prices and see a major climb in value since Satya took over, but I think it's worth noting that the steep climb began before Satya took over.

 

Personally, I preferred "old Microsoft". The current Microsoft is very focused on turning the desktop OS into a copy of mobile OSes like iOS and Android, and as a result it becomes extremely privacy intrusive, full of half-baked stuff that doesn't belong on desktops, and has taken a ton of power away from the users.

[mrchow19910319]

48 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

 

you know so much about these kind of stuff... 

[captain_to_fire]

3 minutes ago, mrchow19910319 said:

you know so much about these kind of stuff... 

Nah. Just paying attention to tech news. Though when I first heard the term "cloud storage", my initial thought is that it's a place where stoned people hide their stash.

[mrchow19910319]

1 minute ago, captain_to_fire said:

Nah. Just paying attention to tech news. Though when I first heard the term "cloud storage", my initial thought is that it's a place where stoned people hide their stash.

 

"Where's my stash BITCH? "

 

[dalekphalm]

Let’s be clear about one thing. Vista is *not* a bad OS. Windows 7 is basically just Vista SP3, with some UI tweaks. 

 

There were two problems with Vista:

1. When it first came out, hardware simply wasn’t there yet. It ran like shit because computer specs hadn’t caught up yet. 

2. Drivers - which was almost exclusively a third party problem. OEM’s were slow to release Vista drivers, so old equipment like USB printers, PCI cards, etc, didn’t have drivers ready right away. 

 

All of these problems were solved within 6 months to a year. 

 

Vista SP2 was a rock solid OS. 

 

People also tend to compare it to both XP and 7. 

1. XP - XP was absolute trash when it came out. It was utterly buggy and unstable and ran far worse than Vista did when they were both first released. XP didn’t get good until SP2 and SP3. 

2. 7 - under the hood, 7 *IS* Vista, so that’s why it ran so damn good. They have their previous OS some graphics upgrades and called it a new OS.

 

Also, Windows 8.1 + Classic Shell start menu = one of the best versions of Windows of all time. 

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

Let’s be clear about one thing. Vista is *not* a bad OS. Windows 7 is basically just Vista SP3, with some UI tweaks. 

 

There were two problems with Vista:

1. When it first came out, hardware simply wasn’t there yet. It ran like shit because computer specs hadn’t caught up yet. 

2. Drivers - which was almost exclusively a third party problem. OEM’s were slow to release Vista drivers, so old equipment like USB printers, PCI cards, etc, didn’t have drivers ready right away. 

 

All of these problems were solved within 6 months to a year. 

 

Vista SP2 was a rock solid OS. 

 

People also tend to compare it to both XP and 7. 

1. XP - XP was absolute trash when it came out. It was utterly buggy and unstable and ran far worse than Vista did when they were both first released. XP didn’t get good until SP2 and SP3. 

2. 7 - under the hood, 7 *IS* Vista, so that’s why it ran so damn good. They have their previous OS some graphics upgrades and called it a new OS.

 

Also, Windows 8.1 + Classic Shell start menu = one of the best versions of Windows of all time. 

Gonna have to disagree with you there.

While Vista laid a lot of the foundation for Windows 7, they are dramatically different in several ways.

 

• Much better search function in the start menu. For example the Vista one could not search for settings, while the Windows 7 one can.
• Aero Snap might be the best thing Microsoft has come up with in the last 10 years, and it was introduced in 7.
• Direct2D and DirectWrite were introduced with Windows 7. Not sure if that has been backported to Vista though.
• Much better SSD support. Among other things, TRIM is used in Windows 7. Vista doesn't know how to align partitions on SSDs correctly.
• Greatly reduced the number of system services which resulted in much faster boot times and lower system requirements in general.
• Opportunistic locking in SMB.
• Support for DNSSEC.
• Greater support for older applications. For example, a self-installing shim if a program fails to start, and Windows XP Mode which was the program running inside a virtual machine (although that was not enabled by default if I recall correctly).
• Better multithreading support. Some other kernel and scheduler changes too.
• Changes to UAC which caused it to popup for far less things. Among other things, programs with a trusted digital signature will no longer generate an UAC prompt.
• Removed a bunch of bloat like the Photo Gallery, Windows Mail and Movie maker (made them separate downloads).

Not to mention all the UI changes which made it far better.

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Gonna have to disagree with you there.

While Vista laid a lot of the foundation for Windows 7, they are dramatically different in several ways.

 

• Much better search function in the start menu. For example the Vista one could not search for settings, while the Windows 7 one can.
• Aero Snap might be the best thing Microsoft has come up with in the last 10 years, and it was introduced in 7.
• Direct2D and DirectWrite were introduced with Windows 7. Not sure if that has been backported to Vista though.
• Much better SSD support. Among other things, TRIM is used in Windows 7. Vista doesn't know how to align partitions on SSDs correctly.
• Greatly reduced the number of system services which resulted in much faster boot times and lower system requirements in general.
• Opportunistic locking in SMB.
• Support for DNSSEC.
• Greater support for older applications. For example, a self-installing shim if a program fails to start, and Windows XP Mode which was the program running inside a virtual machine (although that was not enabled by default if I recall correctly).
• Better multithreading support. Some other kernel and scheduler changes too.
• Changes to UAC which caused it to popup for far less things. Among other things, programs with a trusted digital signature will no longer generate an UAC prompt.
• Removed a bunch of bloat like the Photo Gallery, Windows Mail and Movie maker (made them separate downloads).

Not to mention all the UI changes which made it far better.

I don’t disagree with any of those points,

but if you consider the amount of features typically added in a new OS, these aren’t that many. These are great features and there’s no doubt that Windows 7 was an improvement (many say it’s the best version of Windows), but much of the fundamentals of Windows 7 were still from Vista. 

 

The point was not that Windows 7 never added anything - but rather that many people have an overly harsh view of Vista. 

 

And oddly, they tend to have a rosy nostalgia tinted view of XP. 

[Mark77]

The giant mistake Microsoft made was keeping the Windows 95/98/ME kernel alive, instead of just transitioning everyone over to NT4 and beyond when they were able to do so early.

 

I don't know if Ballmer was around when that was happening, but it seriously damaged Microsoft and its reputation.  They had a Rockstar of a product in NT4, but they were still pushing that 95/98 crap.

[dalekphalm]

3 hours ago, Mark77 said:

The giant mistake Microsoft made was keeping the Windows 95/98/ME kernel alive, instead of just transitioning everyone over to NT4 and beyond when they were able to do so early.

 

I don't know if Ballmer was around when that was happening, but it seriously damaged Microsoft and its reputation.  They had a Rockstar of a product in NT4, but they were still pushing that 95/98 crap.

Steve was with the company since the beginning - he went to College with Bill, if I recall.

 

However, I have no idea what his position within the company was back in the 90's/early 2000's.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

 

2. 7 - under the hood, 7 *IS* Vista, so that’s why it ran so damn good. They have their previous OS some graphics upgrades and called it a new OS.

What’re you talking about? Windows 7 was my idea. 

[ZacoAttaco]

18 hours ago, Phentos said:

At first no one thought the iPhone would radically transform the market, but people did acknowledge that it was a sign of big changes later on. After a while most smartphone manufacturers began copying the slate form factor of the iPhone, and launching the iOS-Android arms race. IMO it was with the release of the iPhone 4 was when the impact on the market was truly realized.

That's where Google were super forward thinking. They had bought Android in 2005, 5 years before the iPhone 4 launched. However, Android was still pretty lackluster until a few years later but at least they were actively developing a mobile OS. They saw how the iPhone and smartphones were going to transform the market and tech landscape. Microsoft didn't until it was too late. Really, no matter how good Windows Mobile was it's near impossible to eat up the market share between iOS and Android.

[captain_to_fire]

42 minutes ago, fpo said:

What’re you talking about? Windows 7 was my idea. 

Is this cringe worthy infomercial your idea too?

 

[PlayStation 2]

Here. Probably relevant.

 

[ZacoAttaco]

4 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

Is this cringe worthy infomercial your idea too?

That's not real...surely...

[captain_to_fire]

8 minutes ago, ZacoAttaco said:

That's not real...surely...

It was real but was eventually scrapped off by Microsoft because it was terrible.

I like what Cooley said at the end, "...this is why Microsoft isn't Apple". I gotta say the "Get a Mac" campaign from 2006 to 2009 starring Justin Long (Mac) and John Hodgman (PC) is just way better.

 

[ZacoAttaco]

8 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Here. Probably relevant.

You just got that video in your bookmarks just waiting to be shared?

[ZacoAttaco]

Just now, captain_to_fire said:

I was real but eventually scrapped off by Microsoft because it was terrible.

 

I like what Cooley said at the end, "...this is why Microsoft isn't Apple". I gotta say the "Get a Mac" campaign from 2006 to 2009 starring Justin Long (Mac) and John Hodgman (PC) is just way better.

It's amazing, the power of good marketing. Love 'em or hate 'em you can't deny Apple's marketing.

[Phentos]

4 hours ago, Keith W said:

 

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