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Nvidias confusing new lineup may finally have been explained

Master Disaster
44 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I think of the last 7 or 8 threads posted where they are the source I don't remember one having anything of value to read, they were all made up rumors based on intangible websites and screen shots.  I simply refuse to click another wccftech link again. I'll read the thread if there's any interesting discussion to be had, but I'm afraid tangible and evidential thing to discuss right now is how shitty wccftech is and how we shouldn't be handing them clicks.   They are no longer a reliable news source in my opinion.

No rumours are actually allowed in Tech News so we should really get onto them tbh. 

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35 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

I really wish I could post something super NSFW over this.

today on wccftech,  pope hit by meteor before proclaiming homosexuality is not a sin:

 

 

pope_meteor.jpg

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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7GB for the 2070 is a great reference to 3.5GB 970's lol.

 

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So, let me guess. 

 

RTX = Ray Tracing? 

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2 hours ago, leadeater said:

Well, he's only stuck there because he missed the 1000 AMD trains before this one.

Interestingly, Adored's information listed 3 AMD things that Nvidia's roadmap was expecting. Vega 20 as a RTX Titan competitor (which would fit with one of the ChipHell leaks), but also Navi 10 & 11. Though Navi 11 is listed as a 2070 Competitor with GDDR6. This would actually be faster than even the scene is expecting, oddly enough.

 

Though it dawned on me that I have an explanation for the RTX aspect. Rather than completely re-doing the designs from Volta, the RTX line actually are Volta designs with the Tensor Cores upgraded/adjusted so it can be used for Raytracing. This would explain the GV104 stuff. There's going to be GV and GT running off the same GPU design, but much like what they did with some of the FP stuff with the Titans (until Vega launched), the Tensor Cores won't be addressable in the same way on consumer lines.

 

It would explain where Nvidia found some per-CUDA core improvements with the Volta redesign within the SMs.

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

No longer? We talking British Leyland reliable?

I have to ask, all of the British Leyland jokes would be due to people even knowing about them from Top Gear, wouldn't it?

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3 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

So, let me guess. 

 

RTX = Ray Tracing? 

Yes, though it's really more like "These aren't the Tensor Cores you're looking for".

1 hour ago, Kumaresh said:

We better see something like a GTX 2080 Ti for slightly more than the 2080 but performing the same as the Titan ( as always ). If they actually make it 50% faster than the 1080Ti, it would have been worth it to wait for a 4K 144Hz build.

It's unlikely the RTX 2080 Ti will be faster than the Titan V, just due to how massive that Titan die is. If it ends up faster, it'd be due to more driver support.

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3 hours ago, mr moose said:

OP, you really need to stop reading wccftech.  In fact I would be in favor of banning links to wccftech until after the damn thing is finally released.

Interesting you think so considering WCCF have called the new cards the 2000 series from the beginning, they were right, they called Turing not Ampere, they were right again and they have now called the names. If they're right this time they're 3 for 3.

 

Kind of odd for somewhere that apparently make stuff up and Photoshop just to get clicks.

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5 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Interesting you think so considering WCCF have called the new cards the 2000 series from the beginning, they were right, they called Turing not Ampere, they were right again and they have now called the names. If they're right this time they're 3 for 3.

 

Kind of odd for somewhere that apparently make stuff up and Photoshop just to get clicks.

They've gotten some reasonably better contacts in the last year, though they seemed to have dialed back the over-hyping aspect. That was their big problem in the past.

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Memory sizes look random to me, it will be the first time we have less ram in a new gen then the previous gen. 

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29 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Interesting you think so considering WCCF have called the new cards the 2000 series from the beginning, they were right, they called Turing not Ampere, they were right again and they have now called the names. If they're right this time they're 3 for 3.

 

Kind of odd for somewhere that apparently make stuff up and Photoshop just to get clicks.

From what I could tell, originally people didn't like how they pumped out articles with little info, more volume then quality, AND their site was filled with ads of the worst type and being generally unattractive making so many hate using them. Most people here just hate then for the MEMEs now.

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Do not care I am happy with Vega 56, tough I bet there will be a flock of sheep waiting outside the PC hardware stores or camping at their PC to press the pre-order button on day 1. xD

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Mediatek MT6739 (T.S.M.C 28nm) - my|phone myX8 (blue)
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Mediatek MT6750 (T.S.M.C 28nm) - honor 6C Pro / honor V9 Play
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Mediatek MT6797D (T.S.M.C 20nm) - my|phone Brown Tab 1
Qualcomm MSM8926 (T.S.M.C. 28nm) - Microsoft Lumia 640 LTE
Qualcomm MSM8974AA (T.S.M.C. 28nm) - Blackberry Passport
Qualcomm SDM710 (Samsung 10nm) - Oppo Realme 3 Pro

 

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4 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

If these cards actually launch at rumoured pricing, AMD is turned to complete irrelevancy. 

Not really. The prices are so fuzzy you can't say anything about those. If you take upper prices or those ranges: it's basically a slightly better price to perf ratio and if it's the bottom end it's disruptive. Knowing Nvidia it's probably the first case..

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Makes sense because all they have to do is turn off or on the tensorcores 

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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5 hours ago, Mustalem93 said:

Memory sizes look random to me, it will be the first time we have less ram in a new gen then the previous gen. 

This is ddr6 though so the vram performance should be better. My guess is that gddr6 is too expensive to have the same amount of ram as last gen for all lineups. 

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2 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Makes sense because all they have to do is turn off or on the tensorcores 

It's also possible that the Tensor Cores get a 1:1 replacement with something else. My assumption would be they're identical designs with some different microcode to get something special out of the Tensor Cores, but they could be some weird hybrid unit we've not seen before. (I feel one would have to search Nvidia's patents over the last 3 yeasr to find such a thing.) 

31 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

If the RTX series drops with hardware ray tracing support, it's going to mean a lot for how games will start to look and how they render.

Not really. It'll matter when AMD adds support and what id can come up with. Because, frankly, how's all those DX12 games doing right now? 

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59 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

If the RTX series drops with hardware ray tracing support, it's going to mean a lot for how games will start to look and how they render.

 

26 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Not really. It'll matter when AMD adds support and what id can come up with. Because, frankly, how's all those DX12 games doing right now? 

Eh, idk... RTX is GameWorks which means it's basically Nvidia only unless you want your framerate to be similar to that of a literal slideshow. RTX already has integration with DX. AMD on the other hand only has real time ray tracing for ProRender at the moment.

 

Navi probably wont have anything to meaningfully accelerate ray tracing as with tensor cores so we're looking at post navi for a real competitor I think. Which is scary because RTX will be the dominant technology even if it's only in it's infancy.

 

No matter what we're going to end up having vendor dependent ray tracing modes. It's already not as likely to see AMD CHS and AMD TressFX vs Nvidia TXAA, NVidia PCSS or Hairworks, so why would AMD vs RTX be any different

 

Edit: Actually RTX is literally Nvidia only unless AMD is gonna bend over and buy IP from Nvidia. Only volta+ cards will support it so yea....

MOAR COARS: 5GHz "Confirmed" Black Edition™ The Build
AMD 5950X 4.7/4.6GHz All Core Dynamic OC + 1900MHz FCLK | 5GHz+ PBO | ASUS X570 Dark Hero | 32 GB 3800MHz 14-15-15-30-48-1T GDM 8GBx4 |  PowerColor AMD Radeon 6900 XT Liquid Devil @ 2700MHz Core + 2130MHz Mem | 2x 480mm Rad | 8x Blacknoise Noiseblocker NB-eLoop B12-PS Black Edition 120mm PWM | Thermaltake Core P5 TG Ti + Additional 3D Printed Rad Mount

 

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$300-500 for a 2070 seems fair, even cheap.

 

shame 500 will become 1500 here, press F for a brother

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But will they be RGB?

PC - NZXT H510 Elite, Ryzen 5600, 16GB DDR3200 2x8GB, EVGA 3070 FTW3 Ultra, Asus VG278HQ 165hz,

 

Mac - 1.4ghz i5, 4GB DDR3 1600mhz, Intel HD 5000.  x2

 

Endlessly wishing for a BBQ in space.

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1 hour ago, Taf the Ghost said:

It's also possible that the Tensor Cores get a 1:1 replacement with something else. My assumption would be they're identical designs with some different microcode to get something special out of the Tensor Cores, but they could be some weird hybrid unit we've not seen before. (I feel one would have to search Nvidia's patents over the last 3 yeasr to find such a thing.) 

Not really. It'll matter when AMD adds support and what id can come up with. Because, frankly, how's all those DX12 games doing right now? 

That would certainly be more exapensive and I don’t think tensor cores can just be made into other things

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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7 hours ago, PopReference said:

From what I could tell, originally people didn't like how they pumped out articles with little info, more volume then quality, AND their site was filled with ads of the worst type and being generally unattractive making so many hate using them. Most people here just hate then for the MEMEs now.

They earned their reputation. Once a site earns that kind of rep it is nearly impossible for it to go away as that is what people will think of when they hear the name. WCCF only has themselves to blame.

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start buying crypto guys, the train to the mines is arriving soon

 

amd will probably only respond with navi, next year and because the 2060 level cards dont support it anyway they might be fine will see though this might make more people go for the 400 dollar card instead of the 300 dollar one, i hate nvidea as a company but they do know how to grind peoples wallets

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9 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Interesting you think so considering WCCF have called the new cards the 2000 series from the beginning, they were right, they called Turing not Ampere, they were right again and they have now called the names. If they're right this time they're 3 for 3.

 

Kind of odd for somewhere that apparently make stuff up and Photoshop just to get clicks.

Interesting that many people thinks so too.   It'll take a lot more than just being right 2 or 3 times out of 10 to prove to me they actually know what they are talking about. 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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5 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

This is ddr6 though so the vram performance should be better. My guess is that gddr6 is too expensive to have the same amount of ram as last gen for all lineups. 

Everything will be clear when it is out for review.

I guess you are right about the new vram performance will make this smaller memory ok.

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6 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

This is ddr6 though so the vram performance should be better. My guess is that gddr6 is too expensive to have the same amount of ram as last gen for all lineups. 

The high capacity on the 1000 series GPU is due to the fact that Nvidia almost exclusively use 1GB GDDR5 chips on their 1000 series lineup. The two exceptions are the 1060 3GB, which use 6 * 512MB chips and the 1050 which use 4 * 512MB chips. The reason behind this is because memory manufacturers want to produce the newer more expensive memory, rather than continue producing the older dated memory.

 

If you want a 256 bit memory interface, you need 256 (desired interface width) / 32 (width per chip) = 8 memory chips. If you want a 352 bit interface on the 1080Ti, you need 11 chips which increase the capacity to 11GB. If you link 7 memory chips together and add an extra not connected to the other 7, you get the GTX 970 memory interface.

 

Always remember than the buss width, the data rate and the frequency at which the memory is clocked is the deciding factor for performance, not the memory capacity.

 

As for how GDDR6 will affect the bandwidth performance on upcoming graphics cards, there will be no revolution in bandwidth.

 

Micron whitepaper PDF ''8Gb: 2 Channels x16/x8 GDDR6 SGRAM'' https://www.micron.com/~/media/documents/products/data-sheet/dram/gddr/gddr6/gddr6_sgram_8gb_brief.pdf

 

Micron Whitepaper PDR ''TN-ED-03: GDDR6: The Next-Generation Graphics DRAM'' https://www.micron.com/~/media/documents/products/technical-note/dram/tned03_gddr6.pdf

 

GDDR6 does have the ability to split the 32 bit data interface into two channels, fully independent of each other. However, this will not have a significant impact on gaming performance in practice. As for bandwidth, it largely depends on how high they can clock GDDR6 memory. Considering how Nvidia launched their GDDR5X card at 10Gb/s compared to the 14Gb/s limit. 13-14Gb/s is my best guess for the first iteration of GDDR6, which would put a 256 bit interface at 416 - 448 GB/s. Which is an evolution over Nvidia's 320GB on the 1080, but as i said earlier, not a revolution.

 

The odd numbered memory cards are likely due to segmentation or Nvidia lowered the standard to allow GPUs with a faulty memory controller to pass inspection.

Motherboard: Asus X570-E
CPU: 3900x 4.3GHZ

Memory: G.skill Trident GTZR 3200mhz cl14

GPU: AMD RX 570

SSD1: Corsair MP510 1TB

SSD2: Samsung MX500 500GB

PSU: Corsair AX860i Platinum

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