games Bethesda blocks resale of used game

[flibberdipper]

2 hours ago, ElfenSky said:

Tbh after the success and wide reach of Skyrim (I think Bethesda was not as well known before it, especially to the more younger crowd) Bethesda and Zenimax went to shit, starting to care more about the dollars instead of the games themselves.

 

They're becoming the new Rockstar. Shark Dragon Cards incoming, anyone? Then again, considering how much money GTA:O brought, I can understand why they want a piece of the online pie.
 

Still though, I thought Bethesda was better than that, though sadly I realize I was very wrong.

It would take a massive downhill slide to shitdom to be as bad as Cockstar/TakeTwo. Like let's be honest here, those two companies could fly into the sun and I don't think many people would bat an eye.

[S w a t s o n]

"warranty" on a fucking video game. Bethesda go fuck yourselves.

 

As for rockstar, I can understand the business model behind shark cards as they have to pay for server upkeep and they do regularly add new content. The main problems are 1. The shark cards are way too expensive for way too little in-game money. The $100 shark card isn't enough to buy some in-game items. 2. They abandoned the idea of single player expansions

[Delicieuxz]

On 11/08/2018 at 9:06 AM, ScratchCat said:

That is maybe a bit harsh. During the Skyrim days they would sell DLC with a content amount approaching that of a full game. I am not saying that they have not become worse but that they were at one point rather good.

 

I don't think it's harsh, considering Bethesda / ZeniMax has been a leader in scummy and lawsuit-happy publisher practices for over a decade. Here's an overview of some of Bethesda / ZeniMax' scummy practices going back a long way:

 

 

1.

$10 horse armour DLC for Oblivion - this is the historical origin and precedence of all other nickle-and-diming exploitative DLC practices. After Bethesda got the expectations for DLC (a then-new and non-established concept) set at their absolute rock-bottom, many publishers followed and expanded upon Bethesda's lead with their own exploitative DLC practices.

 

 

2.

Bethesda sued Mojang over the use of "Scrolls" as a game title, even after Mojang already volunteered to give up the Scrolls title, and then settled out of court because it became pretty clear that Bethesda was likely going to lose the case.

 

Notch Offered to Give Up "Scrolls" Trademark, Bethesda Sued Anyway

Bethesda And Mojang Settle 'Scrolls' Lawsuit

 

 

3.

Bethesda intentionally destroyed developer of 2012's Prey 2, Human Head, by starving the studio of resources to force it into a corner where Human Head would feel like they had to sell the studio to Bethesda for a far-below-value price in order to survive. Human Head did not give in to Bethesda, and as a result of having no income from Prey 2 after having spent its resources making Prey 2, couldn't afford to make another big-title game:

 

 

It has taken from then until now for Human Head to recover enough financially to be able to make a new big-title game. Human Head's first big-title game since 2006's Prey will be Rune: Ragnarok, and I'm guessing that it will release next year.

 

 

5.

Bethesda reportedly did the same thing to Arkane Studios

 

 

 

5.

Suing Facebook and Oculus for $4 billion, trying to get ownership over Oculus technology, while outright losing their original case. The jury awarded $500 million in damages to ZeniMax over breach of NDA, copyright infringement, and false-designation, but all of ZeniMax' original and core claims against Facebook and Oculus were found to be invalid by the court.

 

ZeniMax awarded $500 million judgment in Oculus lawsuit

 

Facebook and Oculus are appealing the $500 million verdict: Oculus Vows Appeal of $500 Million Verdict, ZeniMax Threatens Injunction

 

John Carmack has given a public defence of himself, while suggesting that ZeniMax are liars. He said that ‘The Internet Would Have Viciously Mocked The Analysis’ in the $500 million verdict.

 

 

6.

Suing Samsung as an extension of their lawsuit against Facebook and Oculus.

 

ZeniMax sues Samsung over VR technology in Gear goggles

 

 

7.

Suing developer of Kickstarter project "Prey for the Gods" over having the word Prey in their title. The developer opted to simply modify their game's name to "Praey for the Gods" rather than to deal with Bethesda.

 

Prey for the Gods changes name to avoid fight with Bethesda's Prey

 

 

8.

Turning community mods into a capitalist venture with paid mods, and opening their own Bethesda games digital distribution storefront to continue to pursue paid mods after Valve back-tracked on having them for the Steam storefront following public backlash.

 

 

9.

If you criticize Bethesda too much on their forums, expect to be banned. The Bethesda forums are like a daycare-centre for toddlers because of draconian moderation. Partial lobotomy and Bethesda fanboyism is required for entrance and staying there.

 

 

10.

Trying to stop people from reselling their owned game properties and to dictate whether a new game may be listed as "new" despite the US Supreme Court ruling that people may resell their copyrighted goods without needing any permission from the copyright holder - while being disallowed by the copyright-holder from listing resold unopened games as "new" would be requiring a permission, and therefore would be a violation of the USSC's ruling:

 

 

 

 

There is some information about other ZeniMax / Bethesda lawsuits in this article: A brief history of Bethesda’s many legal tangles

 

 

When talking scummy and greedy publishers, I think that ZeniMax is up there at the top along with EA, ActiVision, Ubisoft, Nintendo.

[Jaggsta]

13 minutes ago, Swatson said:

"warranty" on a fucking video game. Bethesda go fuck yourselves.

 

As for rockstar, I can understand the business model behind shark cards as they have to pay for server upkeep and they do regularly add new content. The main problems are 1. The shark cards are way too expensive for way too little in-game money. The $100 shark card isn't enough to buy some in-game items. 2. They abandoned the idea of single player expansions

yeah they don't warranty discs if it has scratches they will say physical damage and not product defect.

[S w a t s o n]

5 minutes ago, Jaggsta said:

yeah they don't warranty discs if it has scratches they will say physical damage and not product defect.

Last I checked, Bethesda doesn't directly warranty their games, the retailer does. In this case the retailer is a guy on amazon. Just like you can sell a used game to someone on craigslist, the issue of warranty is moot. If the disk didn't work you would file a complaint against this guy via Amazon.

[spartaman64]

there is a possibility when you buy a new disk from a retailer that it will be broken so they have to list all their products as broken by bethesda logic

[Ryujin2003]

Hopefully this gets smacked down. Imagine what could happen else where. CarMax, your illegally selling vehicles...

[dalekphalm]

2 hours ago, Ryujin2003 said:

Hopefully this gets smacked down. Imagine what could happen else where. CarMax, your illegally selling vehicles...

Cars are complicated, since factory warranties are transferable - at least during a private sale (and if you sell it back to one of the manufacturers dealers). I don't know if the warranty still transfers to a competing dealer (whether independent like CarMax, or simply for a different brand).

 

Plus, CarMax would offer their own warranty of some kind anyway. Whether that matters? I have no idea.

 

But none the less, it's still utter bullshit.

[ARikozuM]

Seriously, Bethesda? Fuck off. We're entering a new age of anti-consumer bullshit where a used or unused item can't be resold. Let's leave things to collect dust while we don't control that which we purchase. 

[Delicieuxz]

5 hours ago, Ryujin2003 said:

Hopefully this gets smacked down. Imagine what could happen else where. CarMax, your illegally selling vehicles...

It's not even a thing. Bethesda is doing what publishers have done for ages, which is just make up bullshit on the fly and anticipate that the ignorant masses will assume the publisher knows what they're talking about / has magical law-making powers.

 

What Bethesda is claiming is a arrogant psychopathic fantasy, and Bethesda can't do shit. Pete Hines on Twitter tried to falsely equate "new" with meaning "officially licensed reseller", but that's absurdity with no relation to reality.

 

Games that have been sold to people are not Bethesda's for them to decide how they may or may not be sold. They are exclusively the property of whoever has bought them. Bethesda holds as much authority over an incorrectly-described resale listing for one of their published games as they do over an incorrectly-described listing of a musical instrument or some camera.

[Brooksie359]

12 hours ago, dizmo said:

Sounds like their legal department was bored and needed something to do. There are few things that would make me boycott a company, but behavior like this is certainly one of them. 

I had always loved Bethesda for their great games and supporting if the nodding community. They genuinely seemed to care about gamer but this is just unacceptable. All the respect that I had gained for them over the years is severely hurt by this type of behavior. Here is to hoping that this was merely a mistake of a small party with in the company and not the type of thing they will do in the future. 

[Andreas Lilja]

13 hours ago, fpo said:

Now I'm 200% not buying Fallout 76. 

I was 200% too.

Now it's 300%

 

[asus killer]

Bethesda lawyers are idiots and the guy selling the game is a moron for removing the sale. Ebay let's you list the condition of the item:

 

"Condition: New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging (where packaging is applicable). Packaging should be the same as what is found in a retail store, unless the item is handmade or was packaged by the manufacturer in non-retail packaging, such as an unprinted box or plastic bag. See the seller's listing for full details"

 

The guy wans't saying he was a retailer, he just saying the CONDITION of the game was "new" as in "not used" by Ebay's listing options.

 

I would just have given them the middle finger.

[Yoinkerman]

Pretty sure I'd just send them a picture of a butt and a spoon

[Kamina]

Bethesda: Watch this EA! Hold my beer!

[mr moose]

17 hours ago, dizmo said:

Sounds like their legal department was bored and needed something to do. There are few things that would make me boycott a company, but behavior like this is certainly one of them. 

I can just see the legal department in a round table meeting brainstorming ways to justify their jobs:   "this'll work guys, it's not even legal so after a lengthy battle we can claim unforeseen circumstances and they'll have to keep us employed to sort through the settlement and avoid further litigation".

[SupremeGOAT]

these degenerates... these vile ... can you imagine some1 telling you that you can't resell your item... omg...i hope they go  broke and die

[CTR640]

22 hours ago, Lurick said:

Zenimax can take a long walk off a short bridge for this crap. They know most people won't stand up to them because they lack the resources to fight back.

Actually they can, by refusing to buy.

[Trik'Stari]

31 minutes ago, CTR640 said:

Actually they can, by refusing to buy.

I wasn't planning on getting Fallout 76. Most online games in that style end up being a complete shit show of hyper-competitive BS, and I really outright despise the Battle Royale concept entirely.

 

 

 

Now I know I won't be getting it.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Raskolnikov said:

I was 200% too.

Now it's 300%

 

I mean I had several hundred percents but I didn't want to tally up EVERYTHING like 2-4 attempts to cash in on paid mods, fallout 4 not being an rpg, fallout 4 being a grind fest, not letting Obsidian make another fallout & so much more. 

[Voids]

22 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Nope, he just says they didn't stop him selling it nor threaten him but he should be selling it as used, as he puts it "once you drive a car off the lot it's no longer new".

Stupid example sir. Driving a car is using it. Playing a game is using the game. The game wasn't played nor opened so it is still new. Unless you count finger prints on the unopened wrapper is classified as being used. 

[S w a t s o n]

Not super related but I am willing to give bethesda at least partial credit for doing this: https://www.gameinformer.com/2018/08/11/bethesda-may-not-release-the-elder-scrolls-legends-on-systems-that-dont-allow-crossplay

 

I'm sure this suits their business interests to sell as many copies as possible but if they can make Sony bow to the pressure then that's a good thing for consumers

[asus killer]

41 minutes ago, Swatson said:

Not super related but I am willing to give bethesda at least partial credit for doing this: https://www.gameinformer.com/2018/08/11/bethesda-may-not-release-the-elder-scrolls-legends-on-systems-that-dont-allow-crossplay

 

I'm sure this suits their business interests to sell as many copies as possible but if they can make Sony bow to the pressure then that's a good thing for consumers

looks like those parents that beat the crap of their kids and then offer them ice cream

[dizmo]

On 8/11/2018 at 9:33 PM, Brooksie359 said:

I had always loved Bethesda for their great games and supporting if the nodding community. They genuinely seemed to care about gamer but this is just unacceptable. All the respect that I had gained for them over the years is severely hurt by this type of behavior. Here is to hoping that this was merely a mistake of a small party with in the company and not the type of thing they will do in the future. 

It'd definitely be the legal department. The dev's and such probably had no idea they were even going to be doing it. Still, I agree, it's unacceptable and if the team has to hurt for the company to get the point, so be it.

20 hours ago, mr moose said:

I can just see the legal department in a round table meeting brainstorming ways to justify their jobs:   "this'll work guys, it's not even legal so after a lengthy battle we can claim unforeseen circumstances and they'll have to keep us employed to sort through the settlement and avoid further litigation".

Hahah, yeah. They're probably just worried that it's only a matter of years before a large number of them are replaced by AI

[HalGameGuru]

A reseller defrauding a buyer is already covered by numerous laws, and requires no input from bethesda. So far as I know there is no warranty for software unless and until a EULA is agreed to so there is no warranty at all with a "new" game. 

 

If this all boils down to how terms are defined, fine and dandy, lets get a bunch of people together to agree on what terms have what definitions with regards to games. We have tons of acronyms already. NIB, NOoB, NWT, NWOT, Seller Refurbished, manufacturer refurbished, used, open box, now we could add original cellophane, unwrapped, REwrapped, all under the "New" header.

 

Bethesda must be either really bored or in REALLY dire straits if this is what their legal team is doing with their time.