Proposals for Government regulation of internet/social media

[Trik'Stari]

2 minutes ago, Okjoek said:

Well playing devil's advocate you wouldn't need to worry about being banned from a platform by a company that doesn't like what you have to say. Assuming ofcourse these regulations would hold social media to 1st amendment standards.

That's my point.

 

They either need to abide the first amendment, or blatantly and outright admit to their bias. End of story. No arguing, no doubletalk, no "we don't like what WE CONSIDER hate speech, etc.".

 

These companies have blatantly allowed "hate speech" towards one group, while being blatantly overzealous in banning mere criticism of certain other groups.

 

I have no problem with people having bias, we're all human. But you don't get to pretend to not have bias while your actions are blatantly biased. That cannot be allowed.

[JoseGuya]

(forum)>Controlling the internet is fascist!

 

(Government> Proposal to regulate and control social media

 

(forum) >Actually, thats fine.

 

Who the fuck get you, people? First of all, you have a right to an opinion, but you don't have rights to an audience, if a P R I V A T E company does not want to store your bullshit, they absolutely can and are in their right to ban/shadow ban/suspend your account. 

 

But a government? No fucking way, that's begging for fascist state. Why the difference? Because governments have the monopoly on force, and they have already agreed to follow rules imposed their nations' constitution.

[PlayStation 2]

8 minutes ago, JoseGuya said:

(forum)>Controlling the internet is fascist!

 

(Government> Proposal to regulate and control social media

 

(forum) >Actually, thats fine.

 

Who the fuck get you, people? First of all, you have a right to an opinion, but you don't have rights to an audience, if a P R I V A T E company does not want to store your bullshit, they absolutely can and are in their right to ban/shadow ban/suspend your account. 

 

But a government? No fucking way, that's begging for fascist state. Why the difference? Because governments have the monopoly on force, and they have already agreed to follow rules imposed their nations' constitution.

It's all about the stigma behind it.

That's it. Literally no more, no less.

[SansVarnic]

@Maxxtraxx your topic does not meet the posting guidelines for the Tech News section.

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[SansVarnic]

-= Topic Cleaned =-

 

I have removed the derailing conversation.

[Hunter259]

5 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

That's actually simple.

 

Break them up. Monopolies are not supposed to exist anyways. And if a company fails, LET THEM FAIL.

They aren't monopolies. These are 100% public created issues. There are many different companies/websites going against the big boys. The absolute most that could be done here is of transparency. Any thing else that controls what these companies do is across the line IMO.

[Marinatall_Ironside]

13 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

-= Topic Cleaned =-

 

I have removed the derailing conversation.

Excellent

[mr moose]

6 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

To reinforce the lesson dude. To ingrain it into you. Most people don't understand it to begin with (or so it seems) and they apparently don't teach civics in school any more.

 

Yeah, copyrights and patents need to be completely revamped. In just about every field.

 

 

As for medical companies, they should have to 100% disclose every single dime they spend, on ANYTHING. They claim to need excessively high profit margins in order to fund R&D, they need to be prepared to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

I consider myself a true capitalist. I don't mind companies making a profit, but some companies should not be allowed to make insane profits on essential goods and services that benefit humanity. Luxury goods is one thing, but you shouldn't be able to charge 400% on a product that costs a few dollars to make and some people need to fucking live.

 

 

We need BALANCE between smart legislation, and freedom for companies to make a profit. Profit is the motivation that drives our society, but that needs to be limited from being egregious and harmful.

Pharmaceutical companies do have to open their books.

http://www.legalandcompliance.com/securities-resources/sec-requirements-for-public-companies/

 

The 10K (yearly financial report) is the big one that tells investors and market authorities where all their money has come form and gone to and what they intend on doing with profits etc.

 

Contrary to popular belief it is very hard for large companies to hide copious amounts of cash and medications do cost billions to in R+D.

 

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

Pharmaceutical companies do have to open their books.

http://www.legalandcompliance.com/securities-resources/sec-requirements-for-public-companies/

 

The 10K (yearly financial report) is the big one that tells investors and market authorities where all their money has come form and gone to and what they intend on doing with profits etc.

 

Contrary to popular belief it is very hard for large companies to hide copious amounts of cash and medications do cost billions to in R+D.

 

Pharma is one of the worst businesses to be in. It's a no-win optics situation because of the explicit implication of "life-saving medicine". Beyond greed issues, standing between someone & saving their life (or at least they think saving their life) instinctively feels like it's a threat. No large corporation has the ability to weave that tightly through the human psychological mess that the industry will always be mired in.

 

However, it's become something of a self-fulfilling prophesy by calling Pharma execs soul-sucking parasites. A lot of honorable people, that would improve the field, simply don't go that direction. As a direct result, there really are some pretty horrible people in the field, yet it's also one of the most brutally difficult tech fields. It also has a much worse R&D vs Production per Unit cost ratio than CPU or GPU engineering. 

 

-----

 

On the actual topic, this isn't the first time something like this has been proposed. There has been a few versions of this crop up in other countries, South Korea being most notable. They even have laws against certain types of cyber bullying. Has it stopped anything? NOPE! On its face, any of these regulations would simply allow for enforcement of the current dominant political ideology within the institutions. It's always about Control. The issue is that most institutions have been horribly corrupted to the point they only serve a very narrow ideological & religious perspective. And that current perspective is incredibly authoritarian.

 

Unless you tow the current Globalist-Corporate-Progressive-Leftist political line (which is really narrow & a logic pretzel to be anything but warmed over 1920s Authoritarianism), you are subject to the whim of pissing off one of the gatekeepers. This is why no one should trust any of this stuff with Big Tech. I tend to know what's coming before others due to various reasons, so even those on the Left on this board should understand that next year they'll be crushing specific chunks of the Left. There are some key elections coming up, along the Globalist issue axis, that those who would like a non-Corporate Leftism are a risk to.

 

Most Politicians and nearly all Media are front-facing propaganda outfits. It's how you control generally open voting countries. Divide & Manipulate works. It's ugly and civil wars are coming as a result, but that's the current nature of the world. For as heated as things get, we should try to be good to other normal people, because it's going to get really ugly over the next few decades.

[RuffRuffmcgruff]

10 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Actually, hold the fuck up.

Many on this forum were crying about privacy and the government to not control the internet, and now we're coming out in favor of the government controlling the internet? People can't choose both.

Guess Propaganda works. 

[TacoSenpai]

Government can seriously keep the hell away from the internet in any shape or form.  I don't wanna be living with an "internet" like North Korea and China. 

[spartaman64]

theres a difference between giving freedom of speech to people and giving freedom of speech to the russian government. i agree that this proposal might affect citizen's freedom of speech and should not be implemented but they have to do something that will stop botnets and foreign government interference 

[Drak3]

On 8/8/2018 at 3:32 AM, RuffRuffmcgruff said:

Guess Propaganda works. 

No guessing required. Hell, some pieces of Nazi propaganda are still in use because of how effective it is against the uninformed.

[Speed Weed]

Corrupted government. 

[Sauron]

Quote

"Mandatory location verification"

"Mandatory identity verification"

The next question is, what qualifies as social media? I wouldn't care much if this was truly only about the likes of facebook or twitter, where divulging personal information to people who don't care is the whole point, but what about sites like reddit or this forum? Anonimity (partial at least) has value on the internet and without it, many wouldn't make as many useful contributions to their communities as they do. I know I'd be much wearier of posting here or anywhere if everything I wrote had my real name and home address on it.

 

I also don't like the idea of US authorities having access to hidden algorithms when the users and other governments don't. I don't trust facebook but I don't trust the FBI either, especially as someone who isn't a US citizens and on whom the FBI ought to have no authority.

On 8/8/2018 at 12:00 AM, Maxxtraxx said:

I find myself on the side/in the camp of the individuals that are being censored because of their beliefs, opinions, values and this entire topic is very important to me and concerning to me.

It's not censorship when a private website doesn't want you on it - if anything it would be censorship if the government were to force these websites to accept anyone's posts. Furthermore, free speech doesn't mean you should be immune from negative responses when people strongly disagree with you.

 

To be clear, you have every right to dislike a given website's bias and policies; the solution is to not use that website.

 

This forum's official policy is to avoid direct political discussion as it is off topic and very polarizing, if you find the bias here to be off putting then perhaps you are a little too sensitive when it comes to hearing opposing opinions. Flamewars are shut down very quickly here, regardless of what "sides" are involved.

[Guest]

On 08/08/2018 at 10:45 AM, DrMacintosh said:

I mean, I'm ok with everything but the identity verification for certain platforms.  

To be fair lets all remember that websites are servers and a record of our IP addresses is kept anyway.

 

On 08/08/2018 at 12:26 PM, Trik'Stari said:

 

\As for medical companies, they should have to 100% disclose every single dime they spend, on ANYTHING. They claim to need excessively high profit margins in order to fund R&D, they need to be prepared to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

Any company should. A medical company is not a hospital or a DHB. Medical equipment is very expensive, but when departments are government funded - and it is the health sector which directly affects other sectors and individuals, it's very reasonable to pay a premium. This equipment and research needs to be perfect. 

On 08/08/2018 at 12:26 PM, Trik'Stari said:

I consider myself a true capitalist. I don't mind companies making a profit, but some companies should not be allowed to make insane profits on essential goods and services that benefit humanity. Luxury goods is one thing, but you shouldn't be able to charge 400% on a product that costs a few dollars to make and some people need to fucking live.

Researchers cost a lot of money because people don't want to study specialist fields. There is a large shortage of pathologists due to to being a very small field of medical science. It's groundbreaking research in these fields that have the most to benefit, but the fact is there is a shortage due to people simply not wanting to do the work to study these fields. It's much easier for someone to work on a business degree - and make more money, than to study medical science. 

On 08/08/2018 at 12:26 PM, Trik'Stari said:

We need BALANCE between smart legislation, and freedom for companies to make a profit. Profit is the motivation that drives our society, but that needs to be limited from being egregious and harmful.

 It's been that way for a while but if someone can make money then they will. 

[Amazonsucks]

On 8/7/2018 at 6:30 PM, RorzNZ said:

Don’t see any issue with this

With what? The suppression of free speech or the OPs commentary on it?

 

On 8/7/2018 at 8:23 PM, Zodiark1593 said:

As VPNs and public hotspots exist, I'm also fine with the attempt to verify location.

 

Russia and China banned all the ones without government backdoors already. UK and Australia are trying to follow.

 

On 8/7/2018 at 7:58 PM, vorticalbox said:

Why would you let them fail if they have a good product that you can take and turn a profit on? 

Without government meddling the free market rewards good products. Unfortunately companies on government welfare that rely on slave labour make garbage and ruin the market. 

 

Its called perverse incentives. Companies like Walmart and Amazon are two companies that are often cited as "capitalism at work" despite getting billions in taxpayer funding so they can dump and ruin the market.

On 8/7/2018 at 7:53 PM, Trik'Stari said:

That's actually simple.

 

Break them up. Monopolies are not supposed to exist anyways. And if a company fails, LET THEM FAIL.

Monopolies CANT and DONT exist unless a government creates them in a free market.

[D13H4RD]

Yeah.....no.

 

They can kindly sod off from the internet we know... 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

On 8/11/2018 at 9:41 PM, spartaman64 said:

theres a difference between giving freedom of speech to people and giving freedom of speech to the russian government.

The Russian government are people too.

[williamcll]

Well, it's working well enough in China where every payment app requires identity verification including phone number, but I cannot say the same in other counties.

[Amazonsucks]

7 minutes ago, williamcll said:

Well, it's working well enough in China where every payment app requires identity verification including phone number, but I cannot say the same in other counties.

Yes until you anger someone in the communist party and have your organs harvested while youre still alive as a result. You know like Falun Gong practicioners.

 

Works well when youre on the side with all the guns. Not so much if youre one of their slaves/organ harvest livestock.

 

If youre being serious that anything in China "works well" as in, its compatible with living as a human being, please come back to reality.

[williamcll]

1 hour ago, Amazonsucks said:

Yes until you anger someone in the communist party and have your organs harvested while youre still alive as a result. You know like Falun Gong practicioners.

 

Works well when youre on the side with all the guns. Not so much if youre one of their slaves/organ harvest livestock.

 

If youre being serious that anything in China "works well" as in, its compatible with living as a human being, please come back to reality.

Well I've haven't seen Linus vanishing into thin air yet.

[Amazonsucks]

12 minutes ago, williamcll said:

Well I've haven't seen Linus vanishing into thin air yet.

Linus moved to China now?