Give PSU the importance that has

[Peskanova]

I know its hard to do that but if you add something on a guideline or a norm that gives importance to psu's kind of posting computers or something like that highlight psu's? I was (and I'm) a newbie on this subject but for experience I know how important they are, I'm used to look on this forum builds and problems and all lack the same , psu's information or awareness of its importance... I've experienced how a bad psu (tacens) has lasted me less than 24h or how a bad psu + high demanding gpu could fry your motherboard (ram+usb ports just throw a dart on the case..) There is a lot of information here about good and affordable psu's and like I've started I know its hard but will be for good and people dont understand how many of his problems are related to faulty devices from a non estable electricity current from a bad psu...

[GoldenLag]

True. The PSU is one of the things that get skimped on in budget build as it is thought to be rather un-essential. Same goes for motherboards.

 

Its not allways easy to tread into the harsh field of landmines that is budget PSUs. 

[Peskanova]

27 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

True. The PSU is one of the things that get skimped on in budget build as it is thought to be rather un-essential. Same goes for motherboards.

 

Its not allways easy to tread into the harsh field of landmines that is budget PSUs. 

Yes but with motherboards you will have like 10-20% that are crap? (b and z, and almost msi? XDD sorry about my msi rant) with psu's is just the oposite, you need to dig in a pile of crap, and its not 1 brand as many people say on this forum , its model related , and that makes more complicated

[GoldenLag]

9 minutes ago, Peskanova said:

Yes but with motherboards you will have like 10-20% that are crap? (b and z, and almost msi? XDD sorry about my msi rant) with psu's is just the oposite, you need to dig in a pile of crap, and its not 1 brand as many people say on this forum its model related , and that makes more complicated

Some people say CPU and GPU naming schemes are complicated. That is true, but in comparison to PSUs its nothing. 

[MkaiL]

10 minutes ago, Peskanova said:

and its not 1 brand as many people say on this forum its model related , and that makes more complicated

I've never seen people recommend just a brand of psu on this forum, usually they give specific models that are known to be good or they refer to the psu tier list we have here on the forum: 

 

[LogicalDrm]

There's no way of enforcing that kind of stuff without becoming overmoderated. Most who aid on new builds will comment on PSU choices. When they aren't busy bickering on GPU or CPU selection (/jk). Linus makes sure to mention importance of quality PSU in every build they make. There's nothing more to be done.

[Peskanova]

12 minutes ago, MkaiL said:

I've never seen people recommend just a brand of psu on this forum, usually they give specific models that are known to be good or they refer to the psu tier list we have here on the forum: 

 

Yes sorry I was refering to newcomers I know people here are very wise about psu's (and anything that i've learned from psu's is from here)  I'm refering to people that just buy a nox 600w because he heard about nox on other component...

[LogicalDrm]

1 hour ago, Peskanova said:

Yes sorry I was refering to newcomers I know people here are very wise about psu's (and anything that i've learned from psu's is from here)  I'm refering to people that just buy a nox 600w because he heard about nox on other component...

 

There's no way of enforcing stuff like that. If they ask for advice, then it will (usually) be explained why getting quality PSU is important. But if they don't ask for advice, there's nothing we can do. Also asking advice from shady builder shops, or bigger retailers who don't expertise with PC components is actually bad thing. They try to sell stuff and that stuff rarely is what you actually want.

[Peskanova]

19 minutes ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

 

There's no way of enforcing stuff like that. If they ask for advice, then it will (usually) be explained why getting quality PSU is important. But if they don't ask for advice, there's nothing we can do. Also asking advice from shady builder shops, or bigger retailers who don't expertise with PC components is actually bad thing. They try to sell stuff and that stuff rarely is what you actually want.

Well there is passive ways, just put psu's separated from cases on forum, or give more priority for troubleshooting on the gidelines to make a must post psu's , or a warning with capacitors just from experience, Im a videogames programmer I work on a 100 ppl company (50 computers.. IT of all kind) I've studied a hnd in videogames and later another lower 2 year on mobile programming  and never anyone warned me about capacitors on psu's (and I remember when I've tried to open a psu to try to fix a fan and clean dust...)
and I say this because if it hapened to me , it hapened  to a lot of people (i'm not special) this could save lives or at least injuries... I digged a lot on this forum and first notice was on linus video...
Just thinking how many times I could been electrocuted by my foolness

[Mattias Edeslatt]

Why should you get informed on PSU:s and their inner workings when you study programming?

 

And regarding people that opens up a PSU or those old CRT monitors and TV:s and stick a screwdriver in there like a fool, yea... That's why The Darwin Awards was invented. 

Nothing can stop people that lacks common sense.

 

And for the rest they learn the hard way that quality matters. It doesn't matters if it's a case or a PSU, cheap is almost always = crap. The worst part is that when people become brand zelots and makes brand X = good and brand Y = crap. The problem is that is not so trivial, the most brands regardless if it's tech or cars or... they are all making good and not so good products, and they know people will buy because in is brand X, and brand X have a good reputation because the people that know and stays informed know what is good and what is bad. 

 

How do we know such stuff? Well, we are interested of computer tech and more specific hardware, we have countless hours in research,   years of reading and learning on tech websites and forums and we are selective of what youtubers that are good and knowledgeable and those who are not. We have sunken hours and years of time to be as knowledgeable as we are. We have learnt to smell BS miles away and as usual, very much on the internet is pure BS and misinformation. Just read a thread or two on this forum and there are so many answers that are dragged out of their butt that isn't funny. 

 

I sure don't know everything, but I try to answer as informed as I can be, I can sometimes put an hour or two on research on a topic before I answer and I always try to back it up with facts and links. Am I always right, hell no... but I appreciate when I get a good and informed correction back so I can expand my knowledge.

 

My "career" begun when I deleted autoexec.bat, config.sys and command.com in the root of the DOS-partition on my 386 SX-16 when I was young, because a friend told me that no files should be stored in the root on the system disk. How I freaked out when the computer couldn't boot the next time, I was sure I had bricked it... fast forward five years and I was working as a tech at the local computer shop and repaired and installed new systems, networks and servers. Because I wanted to learn and sunk countless hours of my life in learning computers and network, both the hard way and learning by fixing my mistakes, and hours and hours online on forums and so on. Never taken a class in computers in my whole life, learnt by experience and interest.

[Peskanova]

33 minutes ago, Mattias Edeslatt said:

 

My "career" begun when I deleted autoexec.bat, config.sys and command.com in the root of the DOS-partition on my 386 SX-16 when I was young, because a friend told me that no files should be stored in the root on the system disk. How I freaked out when the computer couldn't boot the next time, I was sure I had bricked it... fast forward five years and I was working as a tech at the local computer shop and repaired and installed new systems, networks and servers. Because I wanted to learn and sunk countless hours of my life in learning computers and network, both the hard way and learning by fixing my mistakes, and hours and hours online on forums and so on. Never taken a class in computers in my whole life, learnt by experience and interest.

Same but with windows 95 and my mother told me that enough spending on pc repair, so 1 summer and lots of ciber coffee spent on ms-dos learning (and not on irc chat )  and when I was 10 first book that I've chose from school to read after duty was how to make a game in word 95   But its not the same to learn how to properly format and install a SO and to die by electrocution because no one told you that capacitors could store electricity weeks after turned off, well I want people to learn but not to die  , you learn to not put your fingers on the plug or to touch anything electrical with wet hands, but who tells you that cute capacitors can kill you   you dont need to be electrician to repair a blowed cap , I have a friend that just 1 month ago revived his monitor just taking a few blowed caps and going to store with that caps and tell them if had something like that, he could be dead? or in hospital? 

[Mattias Edeslatt]

@Peskanova I'm with you and I like the way that you want to share your experience and that you have learnt from your mistake. I learnt that not to poke around in a PSU and CRT:s by word of mouth and learning from my boss at the computer shop, he was oldschool from the mainframe days of the 60:s and 70:s and used oscilloscope and volt-meters to troubleshot faulty PSU:s, monitors, motherboards and other things and soldered new caps and what not.

 

Everything with electrics should be handled with care, and some things are more dangerous than other things. A good rule of thumb is to try to read up on the subject before you open up, so that you have some know how of what to do or look after when there is electricity involved. If the purpose was to clean out the dust, there is little reason to open up a PSU other if there ha been a smoker around it. Some compressed air and you are good to go without opening the PSU. 

 

Look at it from the bright side, you won't make the same mistake again  

 

And you are right, there is much garbage PSU:s on the market. And the growing import of cheap knock-offs and just real bad products is a problem. But as I mentioned, there are bad products among all makers and vendors. The cheaper the segment they are competing in, the worse the problem gets, it hits a limit were you can't go cheaper without sacrificing quality. Then there are the problem when a segment get to popular, like with high wattage PSU:s, 1KW and up, there is a blooming market that many want to be a part of, but not want to sink the money in it to get quality. It's like a get rich quick scheme.   Look just at EVGA, they live on their good reputation but many of their PSU:s are not that great. Some are real good, but most aren't. Seasonic is regarded as a good brand, but they have a fair number of not so good PSU:s. I must say that we here on LTT are lucky to have so many knowledgeable persons on PSU:s like STRMfrmXMN, Stefan Payne, JonnyGURU, Aniallation and so on.

[Peskanova]

12 minutes ago, Mattias Edeslatt said:

snip

I didnt have any trouble just imagined how trublesome could be it scares me, I had mistakes chosing a psu, psu's that lasted me 24 hours or 1 month... people here on spain buys tacens psu's and I love tacens for making products affordable but you dont cheap on psu , and tacens cheaped and faked 80+ results (sending 1 good psu to 80+ certificate and selling another cheaper as the same model) and I can tell you than more of 20% of any gamer on spain has those psu's and 2 years later a calling/post is made telling that "my computer shuts down and dont know why" , well you have a overpowered cpu and gpu but your psu is worse than a mice on a wheel... and that is shop's problem but they wash their hands.

When I was 16 I knew how to build pc's but told to my mother that better to let an expert to make my computer, well well well  a 250w psu that comes free with the case + silicone gun to cable management it gived me like 1 year of bsod and headaches till one friend of my bro came and opened my computer and we saw the 250w on the psu XDDD it was like omg wtf are you doing with a 250w psu... and I remembered when the shopkeeper told me "you dont need a psu, you have one free with the case" XDDDD those people deserve hell  

 

Silicone gun was like removing snot for the next months. I think there's still silicone on that case on the garbage  

[Peskanova]

http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Tacens.html

2014 news translated from spanish (This brand still exist and make a lot of psu's for gamers, shops look 80+ silver and cheap and imagine what psu puts you on a custom pc made by a shop)
 

Quote

 

Not even a year ago Tacens announced its line of power supplies "Valeo V", consisting of three models of 700W, 800W and 900W. On the page of the energy efficiency certifying company "PlugLoad Solutions" it was published that the three models managed to pass the test that granted them the 80 Plus Silver certification. Studying the certification an advanced user is able to know the manufacturer of the power supply. In this case it was about Enhance Electronics, being the models on which the following were based: EPS-1270, EPS-1280 and EPS-1290.

Weeks later, Tacens puts on sale the Valeo V range and ... Oh surprise! ... these sources have nothing to do with those that were certified. The real Valeo V were manufactured by Andyson, and as of the writing of this article, his effeciencia has not been certified. However, Tacens places the 80 Plus Silver certification logo on the product and announces it on its website.

 

Imagine to fake a 80+ silver cert  well 
And this is 1º seller on gamer pcs in Spain , I pick psu's and first order by relevance

This is how 1º web selling computers (gaming) does: 

HAHAHA THAT 10€ 500w l-link just had 1 like that, removed from a work computer (last IT that worked here purchased that, he has a computer shop, omg you make 500-600€ computers with that psu you can expect to earn money, those people....)

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

Good idea; In terms of implementation you could have a message the first time a user enters the New Builds & Planning section have a Terms & Conditions-esque printout of the PSU Tier List, and a link to the PSU Tier List after Store on the top