HD Home Runs and Plex

[Donut417]

So I was thinking of building a new gaming PC. Alright cool, but then I was thinking I could also do a plex server. The thing is, we are cord cutters. While we do sub to Netflix and Hulu Live TV, we have data caps, due to Comcast having no competition in Michigan. So I have been eyeing these HD Home Run products for a while. 

 

Here is my situation. We live in a two story house plus half basement. The TV antennas on the ground floor, well they dont work very well, due to several factors trees and the sound proof wall for the express way, I94 is in my backyard. The antennas on the second floor at least the one in my room on the north side of the house gets decent reception. Some days some channels wont come in, but most days I get them all, 30 or 40 ish. I figure I could share my good forturne with the other TV's in the house, mainly the ones on the ground floor. We have 2 Fire TV sticks and 2 Roku sticks, the newest Roku stick bought yesterday and does up to 4K. Great, but we dont have 4K TV's yet. 

 

My question's, 

1) How well does the Live stuff work on the Fire TV and Roku? I seen on the video I watched about it Apple TV and on the PC seemed to have the most features as of right now, but I need to know about the other platforms. 

2) How well do the HD home runs work off WiFi? While the unit I intend to buy will be wired to the router, my dads room is on the south side of the house and gets some channels I dont. We may buy a second box to get those channels, and that box wont be able to be wired in. 

3) Can multiple people watch the same recording/video? Some of the shows we will be recording are watched by me and my dad. Not always at the same time. 

4) How much Hard disk space would you recommend? I intend on getting like a 6-8 TB hard disk to replace my two aging 1 TB hard disks. My plan was one for recording and the other for digitized movies. 

5) Besides the $119 life time fee, are there any others? I know on some products you have to pay for the Guide. 

6) Any one know when the 6 tuner unit will be coming out? I heard about it and dont see any info on the site. 

7) What kind of hardware do you think I need? Like am I looking at a 6 to 8 core CPU? How much RAM? As far as RAM goes right now Im sitting at 45% of 16 Gigs, with normal use. So would 16 Gigs be good? 

8) Any other info would be good. 

[desertcomputer]

I can only answer part of questions.

 

2. This depends on your wifi solution you have? What AP or router(combo) you have?

3. Dependable on server/computer specs, does the stream have to be transcoded, if not it will require little to no cpu usage?

4. This is dependable of how much tv show/movies you want to store, you can always add more hard drive later.

5. I would get lifetime for plex, I never really regretted it as most of family/friend uses and it supports the devs.

7. This is dependable, if going just direct play/stream you don't really need a strong cpu. You don't need much ram for plex, from my experience but 16GB is should be minimal for any machine.

 

You should read this below guides for plex. Also plex doesn't really have any support apart from forums/reedit which alot of question go unanswered so you might have google around or fiddle around with settings etc.

https://support.plex.tv/articles/201774043-what-kind-of-cpu-do-i-need-for-my-server/

[Donut417]

3 minutes ago, MrUnknownEMC said:

I can only answer part of questions.

 

2. This depends on your wifi solution you have? What AP or router(combo) you have?

3. Dependable on server/computer specs, does the stream have to be transcoded, if not it will require little to no cpu usage?

4. This is dependable of how much tv show/movies you want to store, you can always add more hard drive later.

5. I would get lifetime for plex, I never really regretted it as most of family/friend uses and it supports the devs.

7. This is dependable, if going just direct play/stream you don't really need a strong cpu. You don't need much ram for plex, from my experience but 16GB is should be minimal for any machine.

 

You should read this below guides for plex. Also plex doesn't really have any support apart from forums/reedit which alot of question go unanswered so you might have google around or fiddle around with settings etc.

https://support.plex.tv/articles/201774043-what-kind-of-cpu-do-i-need-for-my-server/

Ive looked at Plex's hardware page, doesnt really tell you much. I just dont want to be gaming and cause an issue with plex or vice versa. Also, Im running a Synology RT2600 AC for my router, and we are a family of cord cutters, been using Hulu live and before that PSvue which worked fine. I just know in December we came close to going over the cap, while the first two times are free the 3rd time they start charging extra. 

[Fullmental]

Can you clarify this for me please? You are doing a *separate* plex server and you're not planning on putting plex on your gaming machine, right?

 

To answer some of your questions to the best of my ability:

 

1. I've only used the roku app, and only for a few hours so far, but I've yet to encounter any problems. It's a bit more clunky than the web interface, but that's probably to be expected.

 

3. As long as your system has enough resources, it can stream the same file to two different clients at once. The biggest limitation will likely be either cpu, hard drive speed, or both. If you can directstream, then it'd be the hard drive (particularly for uncompressed/4k content). I've never run a plex system out of ram before, but I also don't do a ton of concurrent processing. As for amount of ram, my last one only had 8gb. My current one will only have 8gb too, actually.

 

4. I am in the process of trying to fit 200+ blurays into 8tb with room for live recording. I'll, uh, hope for the best?

 

8tb is probably a good starting point as long as you don't have a huge library and aren't recording or storing uncompressed video.

 

5. The plex lifetime pass is all you need for guide information, no extra charges there. I bought it in 2013 or so and haven't had to pay a cent since, aside from on hardware of course.

 

6.dont know, but if you're running 2 hard drives you probably can't record much more than 3-4 streams at once either way. If this is an important requirement, you might want to consider pairing a quad and a dual tuner, and a 1tb ssd for recordings, assuming you have the budget, pci slots, and sata ports necessary.

 

7. Hardware is entirely dependent on your file bitrate, number of concurrent streams, number of concurrent recordings, and whether or not transcoding is required for any or all streams. The rule of thumb has been 2000 passmark points per 1080p stream for a while, but Intel quicksync can help you here if you have a more modern cpu like a kaby lake or coffee lake one. You could get by with an old sandy bridge i5 for 1-2 1080p direct streams and 1-2 recordings, or you could struggle with 2 transcodes, 6 recordings, and background tasks using a brand new system. 

 

If you can lay out your worst case test scenario, I might be able to give you a ballpark estimate on what kind of system you'd need based on the test results on my own current plex project (those results are still probably a week away though)

 

[Donut417]

3 minutes ago, Fullmental said:

Can you clarify this for me please? Are you planning to have your gaming pc party games alongside running itself as a plex server? Because I do not recommend that. Make it a dedicated system or at least have a dedicated server for your always on stuff. You can even use your old gaming build if you want. I'm doing something similar for my current plex build - pulling unused hardware and just making upgrades where it counts.

 

To answer some of your questions to the best of my ability:

 

1. I've only used the roku app, and only for a few hours so far, but I've yet to encounter any problems. It's a bit more clunky than the web interface, but that's probably to be expected.

 

3. As long as your system has enough resources, it can stream the same file to two different clients at once. The biggest limitation will likely be either cpu, hard drive speed, or both. If you can directstream, then it'd be the hard drive (particularly for uncompressed/4k content) I've never run a plex system out of ram before, and my last one only had 8gb. My current one will only have 8gb, tbh.

 

4. I am in the process of trying to fit 200+ blurays into 8tb with room for love recording. I'll, uh, hope for the best?

 

8tb is probably a good starting point as long as you don't have a huge library and aren't recording or storing uncompressed video.

 

5. The plex lifetime pass is all you need for guide information, no extra charges there. I bought it in 2013 or so and haven't had to pay a cent since, aside from on hardware of course.

 

6.dont know, but if you're running 2 hard drives you probably can't record much more than 3-4 streams at once either way. If this is an important requirement, you might want to consider pairing a quad and a dual tuner, and a 1tb ssd for recordings, assuming you have the budget, pci slots, and sata ports necessary.

 

7. Hardware is entirely dependent on your file bitrate, number of concurrent streams, number of concurrent recordings, and whether or not transcoding is required for any or all streams. The rule of thumb has been 2000 passmark points per 1080p stream for a while, but Intel quicksync can help you here if you have a more modern cpu like a kaby lake or coffee lake one. You could get by with an old sandy bridge i5 for 1-2 1080p direct streams and 1-2 recordings, or you could struggle with 2 transcodes, 6 recordings, and background tasks using a brand new system. 

 

If you can lay out your worst case test scenario, I might be able to give you a ballpark estimate on what kind of system you'd need based on the test results on my own current plex project (those results are still probably a week away though)

 

Yes the gaming PC will be gaming and Plexing. While I would love to have a dedicated Plex box, I dont think the 1950's wiring in my room can do this. Currently Im running my gaming PC, 2 monitors, a modem a router and a Window Air conditioner which draws 350 Watts itself. Thats why I need to do this in one machine, because I also gotta power the Network TV tuner. 

 

4) I probably got that many movies but most of them are DVD, and to be honest Ill probably just use make MKV to make them all MKV files. I also from the Digitizing I did do, tore out all the special features, and audio and sub titile tracks I didnt need. To save on space. I dont plan on Digitizing them all, at least not yet. 

 

6) My plan was, to use 1 of the 1TB hard drives I currently have to do recording, as I figure most DVR's from the Cable CO, have about 1 TB of storage. Though I could add 2 6TB hard disks and just use one of those for Plex. I doubt I have a budget for a 1TB SSD. Total budget for the gaming rig, Plex and Network TV turner will be $2k USD. While I have a case, SSD for Windows and 2x 1TB hard disks I will need every thing else. 

 

7) There are 3 people including me that live in this house. Im not sure how much the others will use this server to be honest. I figure at least 3 streams at a time. On top of that keep in mind these are OTA broadcasts, most of them that are HD are 720p at most, a lot of them are SD quality. I cant say if I will stream to mobile devices, maybe to my niece and nephews tablets, but they mostly browse Kids Youtube. Also we do sub to Hulu and Netflix, which would cut the strain. Also, I dont expect a lot of recording. I mean most of it would be mine anyway. Me and my dad do watch some of the same shows so thats where it helps us out. If anything it will be mostly them watching the Live TV, and the TV being more working rather than going out. As I stated earlier, the antenna's on the first floor dont work well. 

 

If I cant do both in the same box, then I guess Ill go with my first thought of downsizing my PC to micro atx or Mini ITX. 

 

[Fullmental]

I think you can do both in the same box, but it will be severely resource starved when playing demanding games on the pc. If you can live with that, you can probably make it work. Give me some time to go over a few ideas (and sleep) and I'll post with some suggestions.

 

There is no way to do, for example, a $1300 gaming rig and a $700 plex rig in a different room? I'm guessing the router is the limiting factor here?

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, Fullmental said:

I think you can do both in the same box, but it will be severely resource starved when playing demanding games on the pc. If you can live with that, you can probably make it work. Give me some time to go over a few ideas (and sleep) and I'll post with some suggestions.

 

There is no way to do, for example, a $1300 gaming rig and a $700 plex rig in a different room? I'm guessing the router is the limiting factor here?

I want the Plex rig wired to the network. Like I said I got 1950's wiring, so Power line adapters are out. I also got a 20 foot section of RG59 for the internet cable which means MOCA is also out. While Im sure the router might be up to the task, wireless is not always reliable. If I were to do a separate device I would just buy a NAS that had plex support. Again wiring it up would be the challenge. No way to run cables. 

[desertcomputer]

2 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Ive looked at Plex's hardware page, doesnt really tell you much. I just dont want to be gaming and cause an issue with plex or vice versa. Also, Im running a Synology RT2600 AC for my router, and we are a family of cord cutters, been using Hulu live and before that PSvue which worked fine. I just know in December we came close to going over the cap, while the first two times are free the 3rd time they start charging extra. 

I presume there isn't any unlimited internet plans?

 

I would still personally run a separated plex server if you going to transcode, as my server is running 24/7 so it doesn't really matter if main system is out of action. 

 

27 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

I want the Plex rig wired to the network. Like I said I got 1950's wiring, so Power line adapters are out. I also got a 20 foot section of RG59 for the internet cable which means MOCA is also out. While Im sure the router might be up to the task, wireless is not always reliable. If I were to do a separate device I would just buy a NAS that had plex support. Again wiring it up would be the challenge. No way to run cables. 

I would personally never suggest people to buy NAS, you can cheaply build a plex server (link below) for around ~300 usd without drives. As there are expensive and cpu is weak ass, the best you will able to do direct stream and no transcode.

 

 

[Donut417]

10 hours ago, MrUnknownEMC said:

I presume there isn't any unlimited internet plans?

Yeah Comcast does unlimited for $50 mother fucking dollars more. We pay $64 for 150/10, we shouldnt have to pay $50 more for unlimited all because these fuck wads have no completion. Oh and the only other provider in the area AT&T no longer serves our address and when they did, it was 6 Mbps DSL also with a cap. 

 

10 hours ago, MrUnknownEMC said:

run a separated plex server

Not sure the wiring in my room or the 15 amp breaker could do this. Like I said, I got a gaming rig, 2 monitors, UPS, 32 inch LCD TV, Fire Stick, Antenna amp, Modem, router, Laptop, clock, phone charger and Window Air conditioner (Use at least 3 months out of the year). I have to be pretty close. Oh any running cables in not an option. Part of the house was built in the 1930's, and the rest some time later. So fishing up wires isnt the easy. At least on the second floor where the router is. If I had RG6 running from the basement to my room, id use Moca adapters for my PC and put the router on the first floor, but I dont have that setup. Im not going back to a WiFi connection on my machine.