Denuvo DRM has had enough of Revolt Group and starts legal action with Bulgarian authorities.

[mr moose]

8 hours ago, Dash Lambda said:

They're not protecting their IP. If he were copying their design and applying it to games himself they would be, if he were distributing their code (which he might have been, I'm not sure, but that's not what everyone's talking about either way) they would be, but he was just removing it.

Exactly. That's the point where I question Denuvo's case. They don't have any legitimate copyright dispute -The most applicable thing I could see them fighting about is loss of business, but I don't know how that area of law works.

If you OWN the software and you can copy it, why can't you alter it? That's like 'warranty void if removed' stickers. I own the damn thing, they have no right to tell me what to do. They can take what I did into account if I come back and ask for help, and they can take action if I start blatantly copying their work and selling it, but they can't take any action against me for screwing with my own property.

 

That's why software is so commonly sold under a license nowadays. They make sure you don't own it, you merely own the right to use it. Really, the whole industry would be better off if they just realized that they essentially design a product. Once it's on a computer they have no right to tell the user what to do -The only thing they should be allowed to fight is people copying and distributing their work. You should be able to break the DRM, change the models and audio files, add and remove features, whatever the hell you want.

 

As an aside: Yes, I am against piracy, but only when you can buy the game. If the game is no longer being distributed by the publisher, all bets are off.

regardless, it is illegal to circumvent DRM whether you like it or not. 

[LAwLz]

Just a random collection of thoughts from me:

1) Seems weird that it's Denuvo going after the cracking group. It's kind of like a lock manufacturer claiming their locks are the best, and then they go around suing people who know how to pick the lock.

If I get robbed, I assume the lock manufacturer won't help me, much less actually go into a legal battle on my behalf.

 

2) Circumventing DRM is illegal, but I don't think it should be. Imagine if lock manufacturers made it illegal to try and pick your own locks. It would be absurd right?

 

3) I hope the guy who was caught gets off easy, if he gets punished at all. Punish him with for example jail, or whatever he might end up getting, will only do harm to society by putting a very talented and young man behind bars where he will most likely get corrupted and never amount to anything.

 

4) DRM is cancer and I honestly don't understand how anyone can defend it. DRM is literally something that makes your product worse and harms your paying customers to some degree. The primary function of DRM is to make your product

Combine that with the fact that there is so solid evidence that piracy is even harmful, and any rational person will come to the conclusion that DRM is unnecessary and harmful. It costs the industry a lot of money, it has a negative effect on the customers, and it doesn't have any benefit.

 

 

Please note that I am talking from a moral and ethical standpoint. What is legal/illegal does not always align with what is morally or practically the best.

The law probably says Denuvo is in the right and the cracker can be sued for a bazillion dollars and lifetime in prison or something (copyright infringement cases where they make examples of people always have crazy rulings).

That does not mean we have to agree with the law though.

[ItsMitch]

55 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

3) I hope the guy who was caught gets off easy, if he gets punished at all. Punish him with for example jail, or whatever he might end up getting, will only do harm to society by putting a very talented and young man behind bars where he will most likely get corrupted and never amount to anything.

 

If he gets jail time for this then that's fucking disgusting. He should be hired if anything to help Denuvo (as bad as that sounds) patch up their vulnerabilities. 

[Thaldor]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

regardless, it is illegal to circumvent DRM whether you like it or not. 

That depends on where you live.

 

At least in Finland there is a law that forbids circumventing copyprotections, but then there's also right to backup. Can't really remember how it was but around 2000's there was this boom of copyprotecting music CDs and everybody was sharing how to circumvent those and in Finland someone was even sued for it and the verdict: He won the case because he had the right to produce backups for himself and to do so he needed to circumvent the copyprotection. So, it's at least not punishable to circumvent the DRM for your own use or sharing how it's done, but it's probably illegal and punishable to circumvent the DRM and share those copies. Just like it's completely legal to pick your own lock and teach others how to pick locks but it's very illegal to pick someone elses lock without their consent.

 

More interesting case would be if someone was to make a program that would circumvent/remove Denuvo (for example) from an installed game so that you could make a backup without Denuvo (because companies go bankrupt and that's how DRM turns out to be a permanent lock that prevents you from playing the game you own), basicly you wouldn't be sharing any code that is owned by someone else and that you have all the rights to share. You wouldn't also share a executable with circumvented DRM, but only a tool that allows others to circumvent the DRM. Same as you wouldn't be sharing a lock that is already picked but a lockpick that can automaticly pick a lock.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Thaldor said:

That depends on where you live.

 

At least in Finland there is a law that forbids circumventing copyprotections, but then there's also right to backup. Can't really remember how it was but around 2000's there was this boom of copyprotecting music CDs and everybody was sharing how to circumvent those and in Finland someone was even sued for it and the verdict: He won the case because he had the right to produce backups for himself and to do so he needed to circumvent the copyprotection. So, it's at least not punishable to circumvent the DRM for your own use or sharing how it's done, but it's probably illegal and punishable to circumvent the DRM and share those copies. Just like it's completely legal to pick your own lock and teach others how to pick locks but it's very illegal to pick someone elses lock without their consent.

 

More interesting case would be if someone was to make a program that would circumvent/remove Denuvo (for example) from an installed game so that you could make a backup without Denuvo (because companies go bankrupt and that's how DRM turns out to be a permanent lock that prevents you from playing the game you own), basicly you wouldn't be sharing any code that is owned by someone else and that you have all the rights to share. You wouldn't also share a executable with circumvented DRM, but only a tool that allows others to circumvent the DRM. Same as you wouldn't be sharing a lock that is already picked but a lockpick that can automaticly pick a lock.

 

There have been a few arguments in other countries along similar lines but the DRM law seems to be holding steadfast in most countries, the bit in bold is the bit that is in context with the discussion as this guy is not doing it for his own use, but sharing the circumvention even as far as taking donations for it.

 

My personal opinion is that just because we disagree with a law, doesn't mean that we have the right to break it without consequence.  Especially when people are circumventing DRM for no other purpose than to allow people free access to content that should be grating revenue.

[PlayStation 2]

You know what I notice? This forum likes to defend one thing while attacking another. 

Legally, morality can go fuck itself in this case, because not only was the cracker circumventing various things in this case which were illegal to, he let it be public and profited off of cracking DRM. 

 

When you bring morality to a legal case, you lost the battle from the get-go.

[Syntaxvgm]

On 7/26/2018 at 7:42 AM, asus killer said:

it's still their work and they have every right to protect it. It's crazy to thing only work we like can be protected. It's shit but it's their shit.

Maybe if people didn't bought games with Denuvo they wouldn't even exist.

maybe people would buy games if cracking them didn't give a literal better experience than buying it. 

Look I hate the implementation of denuvo and the performance loss it causes, but it does delay the crack which is one of the few things that has actually saved money from piracy. 
I'll give them that. 

On 7/26/2018 at 7:12 AM, asus killer said:

weird how someone so smart as to crack Denuvo could be so dumb as not to protect his identity, the dude even had a forum. I guess the "social media" generation can't do anything without the "Likes"

 

I don't get the hate at Denuvo, they are protecting their work, it's not their fault Volski decided to be so public about it.

My impression from talking to some people several months ago on the subject is that denuvo isn't any harder to crack than previous encryption based measures like it, it's just that there's a drought of people with great experience and expertise willing to crack games. Crackdowns, people being arrested, etc has a chilling effect. A lot of the 'old guard' isn't around anymore, and there are far less experienced people that work on denuvo. I guess denuvos techniques are not new or really unique except in the terrible implementation of them performance wise. What I'm told at least. And I would agree, in other categories I see this. People say many heads yadda yadda, but the golden age of piracy is gone.