Microsoft might move jobs abroad due to US immigration policies

[Taf the Ghost]

7 minutes ago, SADS said:

I'm not massively up on my politics, but I find it funny how the news appears to be that to 'make America great again' tarifs have been put in place on imports to encourage American made goods.

However, it wasn't anticipated that there would be retaliatory tarifs and now the big American brands are just sending work offshore now.

 

Harley Davidson, springs to mind, they're like the most recognisable American brand you can think of and they're now going to move construction offshore because of the tarifs!

Anyone that produces world-wide will end up needing to have on-location production. That's the natural result of normalizing trade. 

 

Also, the USA will win any Trade War going away. Everyone else needs access to the American Market. Americans don't actually need worldwide production.

[Stefan Payne]

3 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Microsoft should have been doing this all along.

They are.

 

They already have offices around the World. 

For Germany:
https://news.microsoft.com/de-de/standorte-directions/

(Remember that Germany was split up until 1990 that's why it looks like that)

1 hour ago, Doobeedoo said:

Cool come to Europe. 

Not a smart move due to taxation and other regulation.

The smartest choice would be something of the USSR, but then again, Nokia probably regretted moving from the German Plants to Romania (because the Romanians used the Work at Nokia to get away from Romania, had high fluctuation like China was a huge story and in some cases its not worth it...)

 

Though Ireland might make sense...

1 hour ago, Christophe Corazza said:

The U.S. is trying to solve this problem in reverse. Instead of fixing the educational system first so you have qualified workers available. Instead the administration thinks that blocking qualified workers from coming in the country will fix the problem. This idea in itself shows you that the U.S. educational system is broken since they can't find politicians with the necessary education to figure this out.

Well, no.

Because you could make your own private academys in the US. So you technically have the freedom and could solve the Problem on your own if you are microsoft.

 

The Problem might be some political ideologys that render the people that come out of that system rather useless. And you don't want to deal with it. You want the people to work and not being political activists inside your company. And that might be a reason why they have to use immigrant of sout east asian decent (Japan, Korea, India), where this mindset is rather rare. That is a good point.

 

But then again, you could solve that easily with Lobby Work and asking the politicans in private to get rid of the *studies departments.

 

I think many people here know "Evergreen", heard of Bret Weinstein. (and lets not mention his Brother, Eric. Holy shit... Is there anybody out there who could win a debate against Eric Weinstein??? Eric made Ben Shapiro look pretty low IQ Look for "Rubin Report Weinstein Peterson Shapiro There are two parts, one 2h with Eric and Jordan, one 1h or so with both and Shapiro)...

 

Anyway, you should watch that Discussion with Eric Weinstein and Jordan Peterson...

 

1 hour ago, Swatson said:

Wait, isn't Microsoft doing this because of the Trump administration policies?

Sorry, to be blunt, but you make Trump to be greater as god. Well, he isn't...

Why do you think Trump can do all the stuff you believe he did?!
 

He ain't no god, he's a New York Business Guy (=Democrat), who in his whole life gave more money to the Democrats than Republicans and talked about becoming president for at least 28 Years. There is a 1990 CNN Interview of Trump, where he said "I don't want to, but If I have to, I'd become president". I think it was done by Larry King. Just look it up!

 

 

[S w a t s o n]

2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Sorry, to be blunt, but you make Trump to be greater as god. Well, he isn't...

Why do you think Trump can do all the stuff you believe he did?!
 

He ain't no god, he's a New York Business Guy (=Democrat), who in his whole life gave more money to the Democrats than Republicans and talked about becoming president for at least 28 Years. There is a 1990 CNN Interview of Trump, where he said "I don't want to, but If I have to, I'd become president". I think it was done by Larry King. Just look it up!

 

 

Friendo, did you quote the wrong person? Besides being canadian, and having never praised trump for anything on here, I personally dislike him

[Stefan Payne]

16 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

Sure but there aren't enough of them

Look at M$ Wikipedia Page.

They fired ~28 Thousand People since 2014.

And now you claim there aren't enough??

 

Ähm, no, makes no sense.

 

17 minutes ago, asus killer said:

for this companies education above all it's the single most important factor. The US education system is not great. It's only natural that if they can't import they will move.

No, that's bullshit.

You don't need no degree to be an awesome IT Guy...

And no education can give you what an obsession about a subject can give you...

 

All the good guys never got a College degree or just on the side and did it because they wanted to. They get up, start programming something. They only stop to eat and sleep...

 

 

In some other  areas the degrees are only required because its by law, not the company.

 

[Stefan Payne]

2 minutes ago, Swatson said:

Friendo, did you quote the wrong person? Besides being canadian, and having never praised trump for anything on here, I personally dislike him

No, I quoted the right person. And if I have to believe all the things that some publications or people say about trump, it sounds like god. Becuase he is responsible for everything. And only one person in the whole world can be responsible for everything: GOD!

Nobody else can.

 

So we should stop blaming everything that is messed up in the US on Trump. He's in Office for merely two years. Merkel since 2005 - for 13 years...

 

Anyway, what I was saying is that your attempt to bash Trump just made him look bigger than he really is. That was my point.

He is not God and by God he isn't even a conservative!

[Fasterthannothing]

13 minutes ago, SADS said:

I'm not massively up on my politics, but I find it funny how the news appears to be that to 'make America great again' tarifs have been put in place on imports to encourage American made goods.

However, it wasn't anticipated that there would be retaliatory tarifs and now the big American brands are just sending work offshore now.

 

Harley Davidson, springs to mind, they're like the most recognisable American brand you can think of and they're now going to move construction offshore because of the tarifs!

Your partly wrong yes some companies are sending people offshore but the majority of companies are actually moving manufacturing back to America. Also your Harley Davidson story is just plain wrong https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/harley-davidson-steel-tariffs/. They decided to leave before the tariffs we're even imposed and it didn't affect manufacturing in America.  Also like Taf the Ghost is right America will win any trade ware hands down. Countries need us more than we need them.

[S w a t s o n]

2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

No, I quoted the right person. And if I have to believe all the things that some publications or people say about trump, it sounds like god. Becuase he is responsible for everything. And only one person in the whole world can be responsible for everything: GOD!

Nobody else can.

 

So we should stop blaming everything that is messed up in the US on Trump. He's in Office for merely two years. Merkel since 2005 - for 13 years...

 

Anyway, what I was saying is that your attempt to bash Trump just made him look bigger than he really is. That was my point.

He is not God and by God he isn't even a conservative!

Well in this case Trump has publicly stated on multiple occasions that he's against outsourcing work to other countries, and the visa program. Sometimes the shoe fits

[Stefan Payne]

4 minutes ago, Swatson said:

Well in this case Trump has publicly stated on multiple occasions that he's against outsourcing work to other countries, and the visa program. Sometimes the shoe fits

You should read up on the H1-B Visa Programme and after you did that, answer this question:

 

Does the H1-B Visa programm sound/look like slavery to you?

[Doobeedoo]

15 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Not a smart move due to taxation and other regulation.

The smartest choice would be something of the USSR, but then again, Nokia probably regretted moving from the German Plants to Romania (because the Romanians used the Work at Nokia to get away from Romania, had high fluctuation like China was a huge story and in some cases its not worth it...)

 

Though Ireland might make sense...

Well we'd need to know the details about it and I guess dependable about country or just EU states in general.

[S w a t s o n]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

You should read up on the H1-B Visa Programme and after you did that, answer this question:

 

Does the H1-B Visa programm sound/look like slavery to you?

I never said that, other people in the thread have but I haven't, I dont know enough about the visa program to say whether is complete shit or not but in general I believe in hiring locally, just like people like to buy locally. I'm all in for globalization but large corporate interests should treat their home country reasonably. This includes them paying their fucking taxes and not doing a fucking ireland deal

[SADS]

23 minutes ago, Shorty88jr said:

Your partly wrong yes some companies are sending people offshore but the majority of companies are actually moving manufacturing back to America. Also your Harley Davidson story is just plain wrong https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/harley-davidson-steel-tariffs/. They decided to leave before the tariffs we're even imposed and it didn't affect manufacturing in America.  Also like Taf the Ghost is right America will win any trade ware hands down. Countries need us more than we need them.

I got it from the beeb!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44604280

 

Everything I think I know is a lie!

I give up with the world.

[Brooksie359]

1 hour ago, laminutederire said:

Sure but there aren't enough of them I'd say otherwise they wouldn't hire people from abroad. Since when have I defended that idea? The way I look at it, highly skilled people from outside the US need to come in the US if American companies only in the US can survive. That's very presumptuous of you to assume that Americans are better than non-Americans, and that's where you'll fool yourself. In some subjects the best are from outside, and there are arguably a lot of them by the way.

China has understood that and they began working with Japan and Europe for the time being on focusing a common research against American research with a lot of funding. That's because they understood that keeping amongst themselves, like Americans seem to want to do, is a clearly bad idea.

And this has nothing to do with defending shareholders or whatever.

Yeah I find it amusing that people assume that the people being brought in from abroad aren't as skilled as the ones in the US. It is by an individual by individual basis not some misconception that Americans are better than everyone else. That's just pure arrogance. I mean I have a friend who's family comes from Egypt who are probably some of the smartest people I know and work in biomedical engineering. Also they don't get played crap salaries either. It seems like alot of assumptions are being made by people.

[Amazonsucks]

3 hours ago, ChineseChef said:

While I agree the education system in the US needs some major fixing, the lack of skilled workers within the US is not the issue.  The issue is the companies don't want to pay higher wages, and at the moment they don't have to.  They can bring in a bunch of H1-B visa workers, pay them way less, and make them work in unacceptable conditions by just threatening to send them home if they complain.  This brings down everyone else's wages, same as what happened to the construction industry.  They use cheap foreign labor to lower average wages, then the cycle keeps happening and keeps wages down and conditions poor.  These companies are making record profits every year, yet somehow can't afford to pay people enough?  Its just our insane shareholder greed, demanding ever increasing profits beyond the point of sustainability.

Facts and reason are trumped by feelings for the kind of people who applaud these companies. Microsoft doesnt give a shit about their workers. How about all the ones they laid off? Where was their empathy then?

 

Youre talking sense so naturally most people will disagree with you.

[Amazonsucks]

1 hour ago, SADS said:

I got it from the beeb!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44604280

 

Everything I think I know is a lie!

I give up with the world.

Snopes is as fake and biased as it gets. Just go with whatever the opposite of that propaganda site says and itll usually be true.

[AnonymousGuy]

1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

Yeah I find it amusing that people assume that the people being brought in from abroad aren't as skilled as the ones in the US. It is by an individual by individual basis not some misconception that Americans are better than everyone else. That's just pure arrogance. I mean I have a friend who's family comes from Egypt who are probably some of the smartest people I know and work in biomedical engineering. Also they don't get played crap salaries either. It seems like alot of assumptions are being made by people.

My experience from actually working in the industry is that the "immigrants" they speak of are a fuckload of Indians (India Indians, not Native Americans) who have "advanced" degrees that are basically not worth the paper they're printed on.  You'll find many of them with Master's degrees in engineering not be able to solve basic problems a sophomore could do.

 

These companies can easily find US-citizen employees to do these jobs, but what they want is a bunch of people who are forced to a 10-year-contract and can't go elsewhere because of their visa sponsorship.  They also stay quiet because they know they're fucked if they get laid off/fired.  There's a secondary bonus that they can import a bunch of female Indians to boost of their gender/diversity quotas.  

[Fasterthannothing]

22 minutes ago, Amazonsucks said:

Snopes is as fake and biased as it gets. Just go with whatever the opposite of that propaganda site says and itll usually be true.

Well in this case it's right they started to move manufacturing before Trump's tariffs almost a year before actually and it was because of other countries tariffs that caused them to have to move some manufacturing to Thailand

Quote

Harley-Davidson said the move will not impact its U.S. factories.

In Thailand, Harley-Davidson expects to begin building motorcycles in late 2018. The plant is known as a complete knock down facility, an assembly plant where Harley-Davidson will put together bikes using parts shipped from its U.S. factories or suppliers.

Harleys made in Thailand will support sales in China and southeastern Asia, as the manufacturer works toward its goal of growing its international business to half of annual sales by 2027.

Asia Pacific is a growth market for Harley-Davidson because of its expanding economy, growing middle class, positive consumer spending trends and increasing market demand for larger motorcycle sales,a Harley-Davidson spokesperson said.

 

Although it exports completed bikes from the U.S., Harley-Davidson notes that some markets have high tariffs that put its motorcycles out of reach for most customers. Thailand has a 60% tax on imported bikes, a tax that would not apply to Harleys assembled for delivery inside the countrys borders. Executives have said they want to encourage more people around the world to become riders, noting that domestic sales have softened.

 

By building this assembly plant, we will be closer to these consumers and can be more responsive and competitive in this very important region to enable overall company growth, the spokesperson added. There is no intent to reduce our U.S. manufacturing due to this expansion. Our U.S. manufacturing will continue to supply the U. S. and certain other global markets.

Source: https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/harley-davidson-building-factory-in-thailand

[SansVarnic]

-= Thread Locked =- 

 

Political discussion is not allowed in the forum but this going to be allowed if discussed civilly.

Cleaned up some but this discussion has taken a turn for the less constructive for the most part.

Attacking comments have been removed.