Core i9 Macbook Pro throttles so hard its SLOWER than last years i7 model.

[D13H4RD]

The Apple defense brigade at the MacRumors comment is already out. 

 

Seriously, Dave2D is a "random" guy who hates Apple? Do you even watch the XPS15 video where it ran into the same issue??? There's also that one guy who boasted that he disliked every single LTT video because he has no interest in watching them. You know, you could just ignore them? 

 

Christ. There's already evidence that the i9-equipped MBPs are not reaching even 70% of peak performance and you're still defending? And there's evidence that Windows machines with the same CPU have the same problem, just to note. 

[D13H4RD]

2 minutes ago, NelizMastr said:

I saw a video of EverythingApplePro and he ran a few benchmarks with stellar results. Both Geekbench and FCPX showed a decent victory for the new model.

He tests stuff as a user, which is something I find refreshing.

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised for FCPX. It's not as taxing on the CPU as Premiere. 

 

Still, that's worrying 

[Sfekke]

What did we all expect?

Upgrade the cooling solution Apple, make the darn machine a little thicker that ought to help more then cramming more power in an already small chassis.

I'd get a Lenovo workstation laptop over that Macbook all day of the week, at least that keeps it speed.

Yes it is thicker, but it does what it needs to unlike this steaming pile of fuck*ng shit.

[NelizMastr]

3 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

I wouldn't be surprised for FCPX. It's not as taxing on the CPU as Premiere. 

 

Still, that's worrying 

I was worried for this entire CPU generation. Not a single manufacturer has pulled off decent temperatures while not becoming completely deaf in the process on any reasonably thin notebooks. The very design of the Kaby-R and Coffee Lake H has a big role here. Intel designed the chips to max turbo until TjMax and then throttle down until the temperatures stabilize. Apparently Apple just used the same cooler for 2 more cores, which is rather poor design. Shrink the battery, add more heatsink and use higher pressure fans, damnit.

[D13H4RD]

2 minutes ago, Sfekke said:

What did we all expect?

Upgrade the cooling solution Apple, make the darn machine a little thicker that ought to help more then cramming more power in an already small chassis.

I'd get a Lenovo workstation laptop over that Macbook all day of the week, at least that keeps it speed.

Yes it is thicker, but it does what it needs to unlike this steaming pile of fuck*ng shit.

Sadly, it needs more than that. 

 

It needs a super beefed up cooling system alongside a much thicker chassis to help. 

 

The 8950HK runs extremely hot even in thick gaming laptops. It's much worse in thin machines like the MBP and XPS15. 

[AnonymousGuy]

2 minutes ago, NelizMastr said:

The very design of the Kaby-R and Coffee Lake H has a big role here. Intel designed the chips to max turbo until TjMax and then throttle down until the temperatures stabilize. 

Nope, that functionality is controlled by the BIOS design, not the CPU.

 

If it's happening with the same chip on multiple laptops then it's the laptop manufacturers who aren't properly designing cooling solutions and clock curves.

[NelizMastr]

5 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Nope, that functionality is controlled by the BIOS design, not the CPU.

 

If it's happening with the same chip on multiple laptops then it's the laptop manufacturers who aren't properly designing cooling solutions and clock curves.

If the manufacturers don't touch the cTDP functionality in terms of tweaking it, the chips will throttle like crazy, so imo the defaults should be conservative rather than max performance. One of the few to put effort into this is Dell with the XPS13 especially. It has a rather agressive throttle on load but the tems are decent as a result. Most others, not so much. Lenovo's entire 320 and 520s line is a disaster when it comes to the cooling solution at full whack.

[AnonymousGuy]

7 minutes ago, NelizMastr said:

If the manufacturers don't touch the cTDP functionality in terms of tweaking it, the chips will throttle like crazy, so imo the defaults should be conservative rather than max performance. One of the few to put effort into this is Dell with the XPS13 especially. It has a rather agressive throttle on load but the tems are decent as a result. Most others, not so much. Lenovo's entire 320 and 520s line is a disaster when it comes to the cooling solution at full whack.

What's funny is that Intel puts out tons of design guides and thermal models (EDIT: and power virus utilities ) and shit to help OEMs design stuff that works properly.  You don't even need to build the laptop physically to know how hot it would get under load, so there's really no excuse like "oh shit we didn't realize..." except for consciously trading off performance for aesthetic (and every PC brand is doing it too).

[D13H4RD]

I'll probably just stick with my 7700HQ

 

Maintains a 3.4GHz turbo at 78 degrees at Premiere. Though with a -0.105mV undervolt. 

 

An 8750H with a - 0.125mV undervolt might perform well though 

[Sfekke]

14 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Sadly, it needs more than that. 

 

It needs a super beefed up cooling system alongside a much thicker chassis to help. 

 

The 8950HK runs extremely hot even in thick gaming laptops. It's much worse in thin machines like the MBP and XPS15. 

Well I agree with that but remember it is Apple we are talking about.

[TheKDub]

And I'm completely unsurprised by it. Apple seems to not understand the whole cooling aspect of laptops.

 

Even my 2012 MBP with an i7 3520M can easily reach 100C+ from something as simple as Minecraft. (It's crazy, and yes, the cooling fan does work. I'll probably take it apart and apply some new thermal paste soon to see if that helps at all. There wasn't really any dust in it when I opened it up a few weeks ago, so that shouldn't be an issue.)

 

You'd think they'd learn by now, but I guess not...

[LeSheen]

5 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

There's a good chance those types of people will have a dock anyway; I certainly have no interest in plugging in power, two monitors, a keyboard, a mouse, and ethernet every time I return to my desk.

sure, when im at my desk. But would hate to bring one with me to the datacenter.

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, dizmo said:

If it has no possible way to reach it's higher speeds, I wonder if someone could think of some way to sue Apple for false advertising.

 

Well, nvidia were successfully sued because their last 500Mb of vram didn't operate at full speed, so I guess they could.  It would really come down to if Apple linked to the CPU boost speed in any marketing/product material.

 

 

[Christophe Corazza]

Who is honestly shocked? Apple's thermals have been garbage for years. Their priorities are thin and light, damn everything else.

 

The chassis is so impossibly thin it can give you a papercut, and isn't that all that really matters?

[schwellmo92]

1 hour ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

The Apple defense brigade at the MacRumors comment is already out. 

 

Seriously, Dave2D is a "random" guy who hates Apple? Do you even watch the XPS15 video where it ran into the same issue??? There's also that one guy who boasted that he disliked every single LTT video because he has no interest in watching them. You know, you could just ignore them? 

 

Christ. There's already evidence that the i9-equipped MBPs are not reaching even 70% of peak performance and you're still defending? And there's evidence that Windows machines with the same CPU have the same problem, just to note. 

Whoever said that about the XPS is flat out wrong, I’ve seen it running a 4K render with speeds between 3-3.4GHz.

[Christophe Corazza]

It seems that 6 core i9 is a little too much for thin, lightweight, and constricted laptops. Be it Mac or PC that chip needs a beefy cooling solution.

 

This problem could be fixed with a larger, 17-inch MacBook with keeping the thin factor but more space to add more cooling options. Add a 4K screen to make professionals crazy for it, target market, with a bigger battery added as well.

[jagdtigger]

6 minutes ago, Christophe Corazza said:

with keeping the thin factor

Or just ditch that idiocy and make real laptops instead of these netbooks..... (And ditch their insane pricing while at it....)

[dizmo]

35 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

Well, nvidia were successfully sued because their last 500Mb of vram didn't operate at full speed, so I guess they could.  It would really come down to if Apple linked to the CPU boost speed in any marketing/product material.

 

 

One would think the fact they quoted the turbo speed, which it can't reach if it can't even meet base, as enough. *shrug*

I hope they do get sued. Not because I dislike Apple, but because I dislike bad design. This just wreaks of fooling the consumer.

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, dizmo said:

One would think the fact they quoted the turbo speed, which it can't reach if it can't even meet base, as enough. *shrug*

I hope they do get sued. Not because I dislike Apple, but because I dislike bad design. This just wreaks of fooling the consumer.

I have a personal gripe with products being sold at a premium price if they don't perform well enough to justify it. 

[Amazonsucks]

23 minutes ago, dizmo said:

One would think the fact they quoted the turbo speed, which it can't reach if it can't even meet base, as enough. *shrug*

I hope they do get sued. Not because I dislike Apple, but because I dislike bad design. This just wreaks of fooling the consumer.

Apple fanboys rationalized the iPhone 4 dropping calls and still bought it. Apple counts on their  logo doing all the talking. You could stick an apple logo on the worst knockoff and fanboys would still defend it and buy it at any price.

 

You think theyre a trillion dollar company because they make quality products? Its because they use lowest bidder manufacturing(Foxconn) and sell at a huge premium.

 

The kinds of people who buy this stuff know nothing about computers. Has been that way since Wozniak left Apple. 

 

Most consumers are happy being fooled these days. Like Oscar Wilde said "Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing".

[dizmo]

9 minutes ago, Amazonsucks said:

Apple fanboys rationalized the iPhone 4 dropping calls and still bought it. Apple counts on their  logo doing all the talking. You could stick an apple logo on the worst knockoff and fanboys would still defend it and buy it at any price.

 

You think theyre a trillion dollar company because they make quality products? Its because they use lowest bidder manufacturing(Foxconn) and sell at a huge premium.

 

The kinds of people who buy this stuff know nothing about computers. Has been that way since Wozniak left Apple. 

Yeah, they've definitely done an excellent job of building up their brand image.

To be fair, there are tons of companies that do business with Foxconn. Foxconn doesn't make horrible products, they're simply competitive. They understand that sometimes volume is more important than the cost per unit, which is how most successful businesses work. Apple has done an extraordinary job of accomplishing both high unit cost and high sales volume. There will always be premium products. It just so happens that Apple is the current leader.

 

Also, computers are a commodity that everyone uses. Not everyone gives two shits about the spec in their machine, as long as it works. Apple capitalized on that market. I don't blame people for not heavily researching their computer purchase if they just use it for basic things, as they don't really need to.

[D13H4RD]

1 hour ago, schwellmo92 said:

Whoever said that about the XPS is flat out wrong, I’ve seen it running a 4K render with speeds between 3-3.4GHz.

The Core i9 model? 

 

Because D2D mentioned that the Core i9 version of the XPS15 throttles as well though to a lesser degree 

[Nicnac]

Oh wow that is shit! 

[D13H4RD]

6 minutes ago, Nicnac said:

Oh wow that is shit! 

Hot processor + bad design 

 

How did this even get past the designing stage 

[jagdtigger]

33 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Hot processor + bad design 

 

How did this even get past the designing stage 

Yep. everyone pokes me for the fact i have i old laptop(3630QM+NV GT650M). But they like to forget that little fact that it has the cooling capacity to keep the CPU cool enough to maintain the 2,9 GHz boost frequency even under 24/7 full load. Meanwhile theirs are struggling to maintain the base clock....