Google Chrome will use EVEN MORE RAM for Spectre security fixes

[Commodus]

4 hours ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Chrome tabs are laid out in seperate processes, but cross-site documents still open in the same process. This is an additional isolation feature that process isolates cross-site documents.

 

Say you are on this site and there's a hotlink to a facebook image, that image currently still opens in the same process since it's the same tab. A script could then abuse that to gain cross-site access between here and facebook.

 

This would process isolate that facebook image in it's own process node, hopefully preventing cross-site hooks from attacking anything in between. This was rolled out as an opt-in enterprise setting back in Chrome 63 but wasn't rolled out more widely because it has the potential to break a *LOT* of stuff on the web.

 

More details can be found here: https://www.chromium.org/Home/chromium-security/site-isolation

 

 

There was a Firefox OS... it freaking died because web based OSes are aweful. Even if they had managed to get developers on board there straight up are a lot of things the OS simply could not do performantly. Even now with WebGL 2.0 there would be a lot of innefficiency with anything that needs highly performant code and shaders.

 

Android is Linux. Librem 5 OS is GNU/Linux. The whole reason Google is pushing to develop Zircon is because Linux is a *terrible* kernel for mobile development due to it's ABI instability.

 

I used Firefox OS on a couple of devices (not my main devices, as you might guess).  The basic interface was fine; that it relied on web apps for virtually everything was... not fine.  It made Windows Mobile's app selection seem robust in comparison.  And it was supposed to be the key to low-cost phones, but unfortunately for Mozilla, technology advanced to the point where that ultra-budget smartphone could afford to run Android.

[Boomwebsearch]

2 hours ago, ZacoAttaco said:

I found Firefox is really good right now, especially with Chrome slowing down and taking more RAM.

I have my PC set to open tabs from the previous session and yesterday when booting the system and opening chrome it kept crashing due to not having enough system memory although it has worked with that many tabs in the past. I guess that with the evolution of software will need the evolution of hardware as well. For example, you most likely could not run Windows 10 on a machine designed to run on a system made in the time of and designed to run on Windows 1.0.

[ZacoAttaco]

10 hours ago, Boomwebsearch said:

I have my PC set to open tabs from the previous session and yesterday when booting the system and opening chrome it kept crashing due to not having enough system memory although it has worked with that many tabs in the past. I guess that with the evolution of software will need the evolution of hardware as well. For example, you most likely could not run Windows 10 on a machine designed to run on a system made in the time of and designed to run on Windows 1.0.

You do make a good point. Software evolves with hardware but for me, I'm starting to lose the appeal of Chrome. When Chrome first became popular, it blew everything else out of the water, but now with browsers like Opera and Firefox, I don't quite see the appeal of Chrome, especially with it being as clunky and heavy as it is. Firefox for me has been faster, more responsive, better window and full screen scaling, still supports all the same extensions and is no where near as taxing on my hardware as Chrome. I just worry about the security of Firefox as I've had issues with the way the deal with proxies (not very well).

 

I use EverHelper to sync bookmarks between browsers, that why I can freely choose to change between Firefox and Chrome.

[TigerHawk]

On ‎2018‎-‎07‎-‎16 at 12:28 AM, Fullmental said:

Man I really wish we fought harder for 16GB of RAM in our work laptops when we were refreshing them earlier this year. To still be stuck on 8GB is disgusting, and Chrome is the only "approved" browser for our company. I'm already at a typical usage of 7GB, and we still need to get our Microsoft Teams deployment (yay, more RAM-hungry, mostly useless stuff to run in the background!)

 

I wonder if they'll notice if I just slot some more RAM into my assigned laptop myself...

Ha, 8gb of ram? Luxury. We have 35 000 systems total for employees. 28 000 of them are from 2010, dual core AMD, 4gb of ram, windows 10.

Talk to me about disgusting. ~15 minutes to boot and login to the desktop in the morning. Not exaggerating. The higher ups who make purchasing decisions just have no idea how many HOURS of work per week they are losing to the slowness of these damn things. I'm sure it far outweighs the cost of purchasing new machines already. They can def afford it.

I only use Chrome for a few things. I mostly stick to firefox. I'm one of those tab hoarders, I'm sure I have well over 200+ open at home with my saved session that I keep forever. Hell I have 26 tabs open in chrome on my s9 right now. 

[Fullmental]

1 hour ago, TigerHawk said:

Ha, 8gb of ram? Luxury. We have 35 000 systems total for employees. 28 000 of them are from 2010, dual core AMD, 4gb of ram, windows 10.

Talk to me about disgusting. ~15 minutes to boot and login to the desktop in the morning. Not exaggerating. The higher ups who make purchasing decisions just have no idea how many HOURS of work per week they are losing to the slowness of these damn things. I'm sure it far outweighs the cost of purchasing new machines already. They can def afford it.

I only use Chrome for a few things. I mostly stick to firefox. I'm one of those tab hoarders, I'm sure I have well over 200+ open at home with my saved session that I keep forever. Hell I have 26 tabs open in chrome on my s9 right now. 

I'm not going to say we're running in ancient hardware - far from it. But we have a lot more garbage running on our machines than the average office pc. OneDrive, Teams, and Skype alone take a bunch of memory after the OS is loaded and Teams has a memory leak that means we have to keep restarting it every 30 minutes. Then we have web portals that only work on internet explorer, ones that only work in Firefox, and ones that only work in Chrome, so 80% of the time I have all three browsers open at once. Add in our IDE, 2gb of reserved memory for a 32-bit VM (legacy applications), and several 5-10mb excel spreadsheets and word docs, and it's a miracle there's any memory left at all.

 

[TigerHawk]

56 minutes ago, Fullmental said:

I'm not going to say we're running in ancient hardware - far from it. But we have a lot more garbage running on our machines than the average office pc. OneDrive, Teams, and Skype alone take a bunch of memory after the OS is loaded and Teams has a memory leak that means we have to keep restarting it every 30 minutes. Then we have web portals that only work on internet explorer, ones that only work in Firefox, and ones that only work in Chrome, so 80% of the time I have all three browsers open at once. Add in our IDE, 2gb of reserved memory for a 32-bit VM (legacy applications), and several 5-10mb excel spreadsheets and word docs, and it's a miracle there's any memory left at all.

 

Yeah we have people merging massive(2gb+) pdfs together in adobe pro on these 4gb machines. Did I mention 512mb is reserved for iGPU? lol.

It's fun, let me tell you. It's funny how the people making the decisions on what hardware to buy often have 0 clue about tech stuff.

We do have some newer machines dotting the landscape, skylake or kabylake U "thinkcentres" or thin & lights and the like and they have 8 or 16 gigs of ram and do pretty alright. As IT personnel, I just....ahem, manage to end up with one of those with a 7300U and 16 gigs. Boy does it make a difference compared to the Bulldozer-era dual core crap most employees have to work with. Honestly it makes me feel bad as IT deskside when I have to visit a client and tell them they have to reboot, cause that's 15 minutes immediately just gone.

[Fullmental]

6 hours ago, TigerHawk said:

Honestly it makes me feel bad as IT deskside when I have to visit a client and tell them they have to reboot, cause that's 15 minutes immediately just gone.

SSDs are the answer here, you'll make up for the extra cost by regaining lost productivity in less than a year lol. I actually managed to convinced my university IT department to retrofit the old computer lab desktops with SSDs, I consider that the highlight of my higher education! (I also may have gotten some scrap of paper at the end of it all too, can't quite remember)

[Christophe Corazza]

25 minutes ago, Fullmental said:

I consider that the highlight of my higher education!

 

That's some nice accomplishment... 

achievement unlocked?

[TigerHawk]

2 hours ago, Fullmental said:

SSDs are the answer here, you'll make up for the extra cost by regaining lost productivity in less than a year lol. I actually managed to convinced my university IT department to retrofit the old computer lab desktops with SSDs, I consider that the highlight of my higher education! (I also may have gotten some scrap of paper at the end of it all too, can't quite remember)

While normally I would agree, the limit is not really the hard drives. We had to salvage a hard drive from one of the older machines and put it in a ivy bridge i5 system we had from a few years ago and it still performed well enough. Still WAY faster than the machine it came from. I'm 100% sure its the shitty cpu holding the machine back the most. It's just so bad.

[NumLock21]

Sooner or later, chrome will use so much ram, we'll see a increase in the sales of threadripper and x299, because 1151 and ryzen cannot go beyond 64gb.

[ZacoAttaco]

17 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Sooner or later, chrome will use so much ram, we'll see a increase in the sales of threadripper and x299, because 1151 and ryzen cannot go beyond 64gb.

Surely Google has some investment stake in DRAM companies, I would if I was them.

[Guest]

Google

> Doesn’t give Intel that much time to fix Spectre

> Makes a half-assed fix of its own

[Zodiark1593]

12 hours ago, TigerHawk said:

Yeah we have people merging massive(2gb+) pdfs together in adobe pro on these 4gb machines. Did I mention 512mb is reserved for iGPU? lol.

It's fun, let me tell you. It's funny how the people making the decisions on what hardware to buy often have 0 clue about tech stuff.

We do have some newer machines dotting the landscape, skylake or kabylake U "thinkcentres" or thin & lights and the like and they have 8 or 16 gigs of ram and do pretty alright. As IT personnel, I just....ahem, manage to end up with one of those with a 7300U and 16 gigs. Boy does it make a difference compared to the Bulldozer-era dual core crap most employees have to work with. Honestly it makes me feel bad as IT deskside when I have to visit a client and tell them they have to reboot, cause that's 15 minutes immediately just gone.

If only corporate would budget out for SSDs. The time saved would easily make ul the purchasing price, abd would not require an entirely new machine, nor really a lot of labour.

 

Though if this is a Brazos or some Bobcat/Jaguar/Puma chip were talking about here, even SSD power won't save you.

[Speed Weed]

5 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

Google

> Doesn’t give Intel that much time to fix Spectre

> Makes a half-assed fix of its own

Not all Intel CPU will get the patch for Spectre.

" Intel has finished designing microcode update patches for its processors. On April 2nd, 2018, they announced that processors that have not yet been patched will never be patched. Their full statement is available in this PDF document. In that document, Intel specifies which of their many processors do have patches and which of their more recent processors will never receive updated firmware. Now that the industry has this information, this 8th release of InSpectre incorporates that list of CPUIDs and displays whether microcode firmware updates exist for the system's Intel CPU. " 

[Trik'Stari]

And they sad I was mad when I built my system with 32GB of ram.

 

 

Mad? MAD?

 

[bcredeur97]

On 7/13/2018 at 10:44 AM, Jurrunio said:

20 tabs active and only 4.2GB of RAM used. I'm not sure why it's that big of a matter. Sure it's more hungry than other apps like Firefox, but not that big either.

leave your 20 tabs open for a week. then come back and let us know how much it's using. 

For me the issue has always been browsers leak way too much memory. Only reason this stinks is because I like to not shut down... I just want to fold my laptop and it go to a deep sleep state and then ill pull it out again with all my stuff on it and 0 boot time next time. so over the course of a week of this... i end up with most or all of my ram being used.

[bcredeur97]

21 hours ago, DaPhuc said:

Not all Intel CPU will get the patch for Spectre.

" Intel has finished designing microcode update patches for its processors. On April 2nd, 2018, they announced that processors that have not yet been patched will never be patched. Their full statement is available in this PDF document. In that document, Intel specifies which of their many processors do have patches and which of their more recent processors will never receive updated firmware. Now that the industry has this information, this 8th release of InSpectre incorporates that list of CPUIDs and displays whether microcode firmware updates exist for the system's Intel CPU. " 

whats terrifying about not getting updated firmware on the quite old stuff is where I work we still have quite old stuff and I know many other places have quite old stuff that will always be vulnerable to something HORRID

 

le sigh

[Jurrunio]

30 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

leave your 20 tabs open for a week. then come back and let us know how much it's using. 

For me the issue has always been browsers leak way too much memory. Only reason this stinks is because I like to not shut down... I just want to fold my laptop and it go to a deep sleep state and then ill pull it out again with all my stuff on it and 0 boot time next time. so over the course of a week of this... i end up with most or all of my ram being used.

haha I never do that now. In the past I use sleep rather than shutdown quite often because the system takes quite a while to boot. Nowadays with SSDs, it just boots so quickly I dont see the point of using sleep in my desktop.

[Zodiark1593]

45 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

leave your 20 tabs open for a week. then come back and let us know how much it's using. 

For me the issue has always been browsers leak way too much memory. Only reason this stinks is because I like to not shut down... I just want to fold my laptop and it go to a deep sleep state and then ill pull it out again with all my stuff on it and 0 boot time next time. so over the course of a week of this... i end up with most or all of my ram being used.

On my old laptops before going SSD, I would seldom shut down. With SSD power, I'm already in Windows in 20 seconds. 

 

Hmm, new slogan for SSDs: "Get into Windows in 20 seconds or less or your money back"

[Speed Weed]

1 hour ago, bcredeur97 said:

whats terrifying about not getting updated firmware on the quite old stuff is where I work we still have quite old stuff and I know many other places have quite old stuff that will always be vulnerable to something HORRID

 

le sigh

This is why public computer and Wifi are not safe. 

[Christophe Corazza]

4 hours ago, bcredeur97 said:

leave your 20 tabs open for a week. then come back and let us know how much it's using. 

For me the issue has always been browsers leak way too much memory. Only reason this stinks is because I like to not shut down... I just want to fold my laptop and it go to a deep sleep state and then ill pull it out again with all my stuff on it and 0 boot time next time. so over the course of a week of this... i end up with most or all of my ram being used.

 

Unless it's for a very brief moment, I never use sleep rather than shutdow. Ever since I switched from HDDs to SSDs on al of my devices, I simply don't see the reason why not.

[ZacoAttaco]

25 minutes ago, Christophe Corazza said:

Unless it's for a very brief moment, I never use sleep rather than shutdow. Ever since I switched from HDDs to SSDs on al of my devices, I simply don't see the reason why not.

Plus you can just tell Chrome or Firefox to reopen the tabs you were using, so you keep your progress and were you were at.

[mark_cameron]

On 13/07/2018 at 4:41 PM, SC2Mitch said:

S: Verge

 

Google Chromie, the notorious eater of Ram in the universe is going to get more scary! Why? Spectre patches are rolling out on the platform to mitigate any kind of attacks to your computer. Google Engineers went on to say this performence hit will be about 10% to 13% but this tradeoff is required to actively protect against Site Isolation.

Google engineers further went onto explain the exact root of the protection.

Google still is actively planning on working on optimisation for Chromie... yeah I'm not expecting much, this fucker eats too much ram for my liking. 

 

Google's security blog can be located here

https://security.googleblog.com/2018/07/mitigating-spectre-with-site-isolation.html

 

When you have 64GB of DRAM on a desktop (and RAM to spare) not an issue.

 

If you're using a laptop. More of an issue. Maybe. If you have an old laptop.

[mark_cameron]

On 17/07/2018 at 1:46 PM, TigerHawk said:

Ha, 8gb of ram? Luxury. We have 35 000 systems total for employees. 28 000 of them are from 2010, dual core AMD, 4gb of ram, windows 10.

Talk to me about disgusting. ~15 minutes to boot and login to the desktop in the morning. Not exaggerating. The higher ups who make purchasing decisions just have no idea how many HOURS of work per week they are losing to the slowness of these damn things. I'm sure it far outweighs the cost of purchasing new machines already. They can def afford it.

I only use Chrome for a few things. I mostly stick to firefox. I'm one of those tab hoarders, I'm sure I have well over 200+ open at home with my saved session that I keep forever. Hell I have 26 tabs open in chrome on my s9 right now. 

In our small company we favour productivity 

 

Therefore always go for high performance equipment. I'm using a 2013 i7 3770k overclocked 16 GB DDR3. But which is running fine.

 

Larger companies really do need to tailor hardware to staff needs.

 

In my case we do in silico modelling. Therefore need a computer with grunt.