Fired Guild Wars dev rails against the community (shades of GamerGate)

[Humbug]

22 minutes ago, AlwaysFSX said:

You're wanting this to be about gender, just like she is, when it's simply not the case.

Ya this is the problem with the way Jessica Price thinks, she views everything through the gender lens, rather than on merit.

When that guy spoke to her on twitter she sees it as a stupid male trying to talk to a female dev, she does not see it as two people talking.

 

And the next day when Michael O Brien was pissed off and he fired her below is her description of what happened.

"He wanted to vent his anger, and he had the power to command a woman to stand there while he took his feelings out on her, so he did. Then he walked out, [the manager] got my stuff from my desk and the HR person asked for my key card.”
 

Again she does not see it as a CEO dealing with his employee on merit. She sees it as a man exerting power over a woman.

[Carclis]

Bit of Karma right there. I wouldn't ever go as far as celebrating the loss of employment but I have to say the turn of events is pretty amusing.

[AlwaysFSX]

12 minutes ago, Humbug said:

Ya this is the problem with the way Jessica Price thinks, she views everything through the gender lens, rather than on merit.

When that guy spoke to her on twitter she sees it as a stupid male trying to talk to a female dev, she does not see it as two people talking.

 

And the next day when Michael O Brien was pissed off and he fired her below is her description of what happened.

"He wanted to vent his anger, and he had the power to command a woman to stand there while he took his feelings out on her, so he did. Then he walked out, [the manager] got my stuff from my desk and the HR person asked for my key card.”
 

Again she does not see it as a CEO dealing with his employee on merit. She sees it as a man exerting power over a woman.

That's because she believes her viewpoints are infallible. Guess where that mindset will getcha...

[Peskanova]

4 minutes ago, Carclis said:

Bit of Karma right there. I wouldn't ever go as far as celebrating the loss of employment but I have to say the turn of events is pretty amusing.

Thats how she is, and she's not doing good for genre equity
Who in his sane brain will make a twit  being glad about someother's death? wtf are we crazy? those people defending her take a good look. 

[PocketNerd]

2 hours ago, Arika S said:

this is going to be my last response in this thread because it goes off the rails even harder.

 

Do you believe that her being a woman means that no one can criticize her? because that's what's happening, she posted her opinion, someone disagreed with it and IMMEDIATELY played the gender card.

No, I don't think that Women are immune from criticism. I just think professional Women deserve more respect than they generally get.

1 hour ago, AlwaysFSX said:

Or, bare with me here, it's a more polite way to say you disagree with just a portion of someone's idea, rather than the whole. Or their being.

 

You're wanting this to be about gender, just like she is, when it's simply not the case.

If you paid a bit more attention earlier. I actually mentioned how my opinion was in the other camp (ie. yours and most in this thread), but it's been explained to me why this is in fact a gender issue.

I'd rather it not be one, I'd much rather see people treat each other with respect and engage in constructive debate. But that hasn't been happening and it didn't happen in this Twitter exchange.

Speaking of respect and constructive debate... I'd rather you don't use a patronizing tone with a mix of Psych 101 analyzing.

[leadeater]

39 minutes ago, PocketNerd said:

If you paid a bit more attention earlier. I actually mentioned how my opinion was in the other camp (ie. yours and most in this thread), but it's been explained to me why this is in fact a gender issue.

I'd rather it not be one, I'd much rather see people treat each other with respect and engage in constructive debate. But that hasn't been happening and it didn't happen in this Twitter exchange.

Regardless of whether or not there was any kind of gender equality fault on Doroir's side there was 100% from Jessica Price, in full force and direct explicit form.  You can never solve gender equality issues with gender discrimination, you can't fight fire with fire it simply does not work.

 

If she wants to try and stand on the moral high ground you first better check it's not below the water line, if you are under water drowning you definitely are not on high ground that's for sure.

[xAcid9]

1 hour ago, PocketNerd said:

I just think professional Women deserve more respect than they generally get.

While it's ok for her to be disrespectful to another person? 

[Peskanova]

Quote

I just think professional Women deserve more respect than they generally get.

Well you are right and wrong at the sime time, professional women deserves more respect because they achieved same level as men with more obstacles, but that girl is not a professional. Any professional will tell you behaving like that girl is just childish. I studied videogames programing and had a entire subject about what she's working and dude my teacher could work on any company and he's open for any idea o critizism if its constructive. If Deroir had told the same to a real professional the answer would be polite and constructive for both , the game and the company and if you take a badge on your twitter to be cool posting that you are arena net staff deal with the consecuences, just a child behaviour. Everyone go and take enterprise account and yell some customer.

I wonder how linus would behaved with this scenario on ltt forums if it was his worker (gg wp).

[Morgan MLGman]

9 hours ago, Fooshi said:

Jennifer is just as bad as Jessica Price.

 

People are tired of self-victimisation and inserting sexism/racism/homophobia/etc where there clearly is none, and backlash is extremely overdue. 

I agree, I just found a tweet that she made (which Jessica shared):


This kind of thought comes from lack of education and ignorance IMO. If there are no female CEOs within those 50 largest game studios in Germany, that's not the fault of those companies or the German country (as she implies in the first line of the tweet). If anything, it actually gives you a moment to think why weren't women chosen for those positions and what can they do better to achieve that, because they can be just as good employees. People are judged by their individual abilities when they're trying to find a job, not by their gender.

If I was an employer and I knew that women were truly paid less, but were 100% equally good employees, then I'd try to hire only women. Why would I pay more for the same amount of work done just because the employee would be a male? Makes no sense, and it's the ultimate argument against such stupid claims.

"Absolutely a gender issue" LOL I'd call it "Absolutely a mental issue" which is a more appropriate description.

[Stefan Payne]

21 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

This kind of thought comes from lack of education and ignorance IMO.

No, it comes because of Education -> Gender Studies Degree.

Wich isn't much more than a radical intersectional Feminist indoctrination. And people like Jessica are the "victims" of this and believe the indoctrination.

 

21 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

If there are no female CEOs within those 50 largest game studios in Germany, that's not the fault of those companies or the German country (as she implies in the first line of the tweet). If anything, it actually gives you a moment to think why weren't women chosen for those positions and what can they do better to achieve that, because they can be just as good employees. People are judged by their individual abilities when they're trying to find a job, not by their gender.

First, I have to steal a quote from Jordan Peterson.

The question isn't why females do that, the question is why would men do that at all?

 

And the "50 largest game studios" in Germany are still rather small compared to the international things. The biggest one (Crytek) is pretty much dying and Bluebyte is part of Ubisoft. 

Most of those makers of Browsergames or mobile games. And unknown to most of us here.

And the boss of those companys is probably the founder.

 

But lets see what the form of the companys is:

 

Innogames: GmbH

Bigpoint: GmbH

Goodgame Studios: Goodgame Studios is a brand of Altigi GmbH.

Gamigo: AG (public company that is on the Stock Market)

Crytek: You gessed it, GmbH
Bluebyte: Aquired by Ubisoft

Gameforge: AG

Wooga: GmBH

 

So now I've lost interest, but you see that most are organized in the "GmbH"(Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung), wich means that the owner of the company isn't liable with his private assets. It is something that is comperable to a LLC, according to Wikipedia.

 

In other words: Thats more like those are small business and the founder is still the boss!

Well d'uh, should be obvious that there won't be female CEOs when there aren't even that many female who are starting new companys...

 

21 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

If I was an employer and I knew that women were truly paid less, but were 100% equally good employees, then I'd try to hire only women. Why would I pay more for the same amount of work done just because the employee would be a male? Makes no sense, and it's the ultimate argument against such stupid claims.

Exactly!

 

And the "Gender Paygap" is just a lie from those radical people. The truth is that men are paid less and females a bit more for the same work.

But men tend to work more, so they make more money...

 

21 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

"Absolutely a gender issue" LOL I'd call it "Absolutely a mental issue" which is a more appropriate description.

Absolutely an ideological issue...

 

I think its a good oppurtunity to link this:

 

At one time of the Interview he got a bit angry. You see what I mean when you watch that

In that case I think he should have bashed her a bit more than he did.

[ravenshrike]

10 hours ago, PocketNerd said:

To be clear, her language could have easily been better. I have no intention of defending that. What I'm attempting to communicate is the notion of how society seems to have a double-standard when professionals express boundaries based on the gender of the individual.

I've read the tweet, and my gut reaction was very much like yours and others on this thread. But after speaking with other Women and getting their perspectives on it, I understand the nuances of what's really going on.

There is no nuance in this instance. The question asked was no different than hundreds asked of male devs every week in various fora. That have been asked for the past 3 decades.

[spartaman64]

13 hours ago, PocketNerd said:

Sure, Twitter is a public platform. So is going to a coffee shop or a restaurant. Do you think it's perfectly acceptable to bud into someones life with a "well actually" if you happen to overhear them say something about a topic that you have no real experience in without being asked?

In society, that's generally considered a rude thing to do... Though that sense of rudeness seems to go out the window when that person whose conversation that you're budding into happens to be a Woman. And yes, of course it happens to Men, too. But do they get all offended when us Men defend our boundaries on how we engage others who have no business being in the conversation?

you realize that she has to click something to read the comments on her post. what does she think people are going to be talking about? jellyfish? if you dont want to see people's opinions on your tweet dont read the comments

wait a minute oops sorry i forgot you didnt ask me for my opinion sorry for barging into your conversation here without you asking. wont happen again Kappa

[Peskanova]

This is how linus takes critizism and rossman admits that he ranted linus about not knowing about deballing.

Rossman get shocked about linus way to handle things, he made an interesting video taking a rant (with reason on rossman).
This is a professional doing his job

[SpaceGhostC2C]

8 hours ago, Quadriplegic said:

Because it is posssible that gamers know about the game more than a random developer. 

How you dare!

 

If this story, and to some extent this thread, have shown something, is how how arrogant software developers (as it happens with designers in the same/other industries) can't cope with the idea that users of their software may have quite a bit of knowledge of what using the software they write is like.

To be honest, it does explain many things about the software we get...

[AngryBeaver]

3 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Exactly!

 

And the "Gender Paygap" is just a lie from those radical people. The truth is that men are paid less and females a bit more for the same work.

But men tend to work more, so they make more money...

So the Gender Paygap is real, but the reasons why are deceptive for people that don't do their research.

 

When you look at average earning between men and women there is a gap, but that is because of the following:

 

Men tend to work far more overtime

Women are still mostly responsible for caring for children which cuts down on their hours

Women also enjoy and work jobs that make up some of the more lower paid jobs (like teaching)

 

Now when you look at statistics for Women Professionals who are single etc, then the gap falls drastically (as in margin of error)

 

Now don't get me wrong. I know that there are still issues with gender bias and race bias in todays world. They are slowly getting better, but I feel we are still a few generations out for seeing it truly start to disappear.

 

 

Now as for this whole situation. This all comes down to character. You can tell what type of person she was just by looking at her reaction. She doesn't accept responsibility. She blames everyone and everything else for her actions. She is just grasping for straws hoping something sticks and explains away this situation. The problem is the situation and recourse was entirely of her making. I have a feeling that if the truth was known she was also combative about it with her boss. I am sure if she approached the situation admitting her mistakes and willing to make a public apology then things would have probably been handled differently.

[Stefan Payne]

3 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

When you look at average earning between men and women there is a gap.

Yes, if you throw all men and women into a pot and look who is earning what, true.

But that doesn't take into account married women, payment of the man and other things.

 

If your partner makes half a million per Year, why work much at all??

And women tend to choose occupations where they have to work less hours.

 

3 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

but that is because of the following

 

Men tend to work far more overtime

Women are still mostly responsible for caring for children which cuts down on their hours

Women also enjoy and work jobs that make up some of the more lower paid jobs (like teaching)

 

Now when you look at statistics for Women Professionals who are single etc, then the gap falls drastically (as in margin of error)

Yeah, Jordan bashed Cathy in the Video I linked a couple of times. Its a variety of reasons. 

In short its because man and women are different and have different things to do and want to do different things.

 

3 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Now don't get me wrong. I know that there are still issues with gender bias and race bias in todays world. They are slowly getting better, but I feel we are still a few generations out for seeing it truly start to disappear.

The Problem is we are going at it the wrong way right now. 

The way its done right now isn't good and can only end badly and with the opposite effect...

But listen to the video I've posted. Those 30min are absolutely worth it. It's really entertaining. and shocking...

 

3 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Now as for this whole situation. This all comes down to character. You can tell what type of person she was just by looking at her reaction. She doesn't accept responsibility. She blames everyone and everything else for her actions.

that is a general Problem with many peoples and also minoritys. They don't accept the responsibility for the shit they are doing. And some extremists tell those people that its not their fault that they totally messed up and went to jail because they murdered a couple of people...

But then again, there are differences between people and we should accept that and try to make the best of it. 

 

The forced equality right now isn't a good thing...

 

And I've heard that people already react to this shit. If you have a degree in Gender studys, you're out in many smaller companys. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

She is just grasping for straws hoping something sticks and explains away this situation. The problem is the situation and recourse was entirely of her making. I have a feeling that if the truth was known she was also combative about it with her boss. I am sure if she approached the situation admitting her mistakes and willing to make a public apology then things would have probably been handled differently.

Yes, totally agree.

 

And that is highly probable. She came across like an entitlet little princess.

And this thing was just the last thing Mike O'brian wanted to get rid of her...

 

Why don't we talk about Toxic femininity right now??

[Stefan Payne]

Wait a minute.

That with the Payment of the woman was something that Thomas Sowell mentioned - almost 40 years ago in Firing Line with William F. Buckley.

 

Just look for it and watch the ~59min video. If you are interested in things like that. Thomas is just awesome...

[AngryBeaver]

Well either way I am pretty sure her career in pretty much done in this industry. She is still not taking responsibility and is constantly looking for new things to blame. No company in their right mind would take the risk of hiring her when she can't even see what she has done wrong.

[plsno]

I really don't follow how this was a gender issue. She got fired because she chose to sperg out on social media to their customers over nothing. 

 

 

[xAcid9]

34 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Well either way I am pretty sure her career in pretty much done in this industry. She is still not taking responsibility and is constantly looking for new things to blame. No company in their right mind would take the risk of hiring her when she can't even see what she has done wrong.

Apparently female game dev, recruiters and game design professor got her back and they will be all boycotting ArenaNet. 

@8:44

 

[AngryBeaver]

6 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

Apparently female game dev, recruiters and game design professor got her back and they will be all boycotting ArenaNet. 

@8:44

 

So people that have very little say in it.

 

A fellow game dev doesn't have any actual say in who gets hired. They might be able to weigh in, but overall have no hiring authority.

 

Recruiters can try to find her a job, but they just market her for employment. The company would still need to be interested in her.

 

Professor.... this is also not going to make any different in her ability to find a job. All the professor can do is teach future dev's not to follow in her footsteps.

 

I have a feeling that most companies that are of significance won't be willing to take the risk. It would be a pretty easy call for most HR and legal teams to decide against it. I mean if I have two or three strong candidates for a position then why would I go with one that has this black mark against them already? In most cases it would be better just hiring a skilled dev fresh out of college. No bad habits, less chance of entitlement, can offer them lower wages, and overall they are a clean slate you can build up as you see fit.

[Brooksie359]

On 7/10/2018 at 5:18 PM, Rune said:

Get rekt. By yourself.

I believe the saying is "you played yourself." 

[MoonSpot]

All this stuff going on with comicsgate, gamersgate and hollywierd seem like they're all the same and coming from the same place(s).

Though I've a multitude of opinions and feels about a lot of the shit going on with these, my take away is:

'the pendulum is swinging back, and its going to crashback as hard as it was pushed out in the first place'

 

Its like the concept of slow and steady has been completely lost on everyone.

[FratStar]

41 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

I believe the saying is "you played yourself." 

You forgot the "Congratulations," ahead of "you played yourself." 

[Brooksie359]

1 hour ago, FratStar said:

You forgot the "Congratulations," ahead of "you played yourself." 

True, very true.