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Fired Guild Wars dev rails against the community (shades of GamerGate)

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21 hours ago, onlybuilt4cubanxlinx said:

What a bitch.

The only words that could come to mind as well. 

Message added by Crunchy Dragon

Keep this civil, remember the Community Standards.

41 minutes ago, GilmourD said:

Intellivision II and Colecovision

I had an Intellivision back in the day.  I absolutely loved that system, especially with the swappable inserts for the gamepad.  I wasted many an hour playing BurgerTime on that thing.

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1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

Its more like _EVERYONE_ gets the short end of the stick...

Not just one group...

That's the nature of equality, everyone has an equal chance to get the short end of the stick.  Some people think equality means being above reproach and never being shorted, which is the Animal Farm version of "equality".  True equality is of opportunity, not end result.

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9 minutes ago, CoolMarquis97 said:

if a female gamer tried doing this to a male developer and he shut her down, people would parade that dude in the street. Price did nothing wrong. Gaming culture is a cesspool of toxicity and to ignore that is just plain ignorance. 

Tell me, what was so toxic about his comments that he deserved to be slandered as a sexist by her?  Have you even read his comments?  I didn't find them particularly enlightening, but hardly worthy of the scathing rebuke that she threw at him.  Apparently her employer agreed.

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Boy i hope this wehmen doesn't get much traction spreading fake news and FUD about ArenaNet being sexist.
 

Yong did good job covering this "issue" imo.

 

1 hour ago, CoolMarquis97 said:

if a female gamer tried doing this to a male developer and he shut her down, people would parade that dude in the street. Price did nothing wrong. Gaming culture is a cesspool of toxicity and to ignore that is just plain ignorance.

Meh, you forgot that male dev got fired too for defending her BS. If you can't take criticism don't make your social media public and don't advertise yourself as ArenaNet employee. She could ignore Deroir's comment if she couldn't take it but nooooo... 

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I don't understand how people are smart enough to go through school and start developing for a relatively sizeable gaming company, yet are still too stupid to remember not to waste their effort and opinions on Twitter. Twitter has gotten more people into trouble than if they had committed some political scandal

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30 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

I had an Intellivision back in the day.  I absolutely loved that system, especially with the swappable inserts for the gamepad.  I wasted many an hour playing BurgerTime on that thing.

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You have no idea how much it frustrates me that BurgerTime isn't available as an android app. I'd play the crap out of that now.

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Meanwhile..

https://www.pcgamer.com/igda-urges-studios-to-clarify-guidelines-for-social-media-conduct-after-arenanet-sackings/

 

Quote

The Independent Game Developers Association has called for studios to publish "transparent and well-understood guidelines for staff members" with regards to social media use. This follows the recent dismissal of two Guild Wars 2 writers by ArenaNet following a heated Twitter exchange with a partnered streamer.

 

It's been 10 years or more since Facebook and other social media has taken off, and you're telling me that these policies for game developers hasn't been spelled out yet...

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49 minutes ago, CoolMarquis97 said:

if a female gamer tried doing this to a male developer and he shut her down, people would parade that dude in the street. Price did nothing wrong. Gaming culture is a cesspool of toxicity and to ignore that is just plain ignorance. 

Nah, she is in the wrong here. The community is toxic, and most people are overreacting, but still she is NOT the right one here. I thought at first she was, just because how fucked up the community is, but looking into it... Nope, she is wrong.

Pretty much this comment sums it up \/

1 hour ago, GilmourD said:

Do women get the short end of the stick in the gaming world (as well as the rest of the world)? Yeah.

Does that entitle a woman to be a complete asshat in a public venue? Nope.

 

There are plenty of women that can do the same job with excellence that would love to take her place. We (both men and women) need to work more towards bringing pay equality and fair treatment to women in the workplace as a whole and women like this don't help that.

 

Ultra is stupid. ALWAYS.

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This is why I'm upset with AreaNet's actions. They have opened the doors to more of this behavior. 

 

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28 minutes ago, CoolMarquis97 said:

This is why I'm upset with AreaNet's actions. They have opened the doors to more of this behavior. 

 

Umm be upset at jessica, she started it and got fired for her retarded rant. I'd dismiss her as well if she worked for my company and did that.

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Quote

Today in being a female game dev:

Quote

she took offense and choose to attack him as shown below playing the gender card

 

Ah, classic, the ol' 21st century reliable. I'm not even interested in wasting my time in reading that kind of sh*t anymore so I just scroll down to the comments and read that.

 

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Did you know you're not supposed to be a dick towards your customers. It's kind of bad for business. The other thing is it's entirely possible to have reasonable discussion without toxicity, or just more plainly, being a better person to someone who is toxic. If your Twitter bio includes that you frequently block people you're a mental child that can't hear other opinions without crying.

 

 

.

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Everyones wrong here tbh.. She i dont think deserved to be fired (tho clearly reprimanded).  The customer isn't always right.

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1 hour ago, CoolMarquis97 said:

This is why I'm upset with AreaNet's actions. They have opened the doors to more of this behavior. 

 

Arenanet made the right call. Price HARASSED a customer for absolutely no reason. She then called everyone "random asshats". She was directly attacking and insulting customers. Arenanet did nothing wrong by firing her. Price is responsible for her own actions, it's called personal responsibility. Take off the blinders for a second and stop just believing the SJW media side of things.

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4 minutes ago, Gullerback said:

Everyones wrong here tbh.. She i dont think deserved to be fired (tho clearly reprimanded).  The customer isn't always right.

No, I think she deserved it. Price is quite clearly a toxic person. She celebrated with TB died, attacks a customer for no reason, and then tries to turn it into a "woe is me" story in order to get back at her former employer. I feel zero pity for her.

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I received a news article notification for this on my phone earlier this morning. Only read a little bit of it, but it was extremely pro-Price in the way it was written. It went on about how this poor woman was attacked by users of 4chan who were continuing a vendetta since 'gamergate' and were just adding another notch to their belt of women they removed from the industry. It stated that they relentlessly attacked this woman on social media and that a 'hateful mob' lodged complaints with her boss to get her fired. It didn't include any of the comments made by Price or the person she was responding to.
 

Spoiler

Here are some quotes from the article that was delivered to my phone, titled
"Gamers and managers vs workers: the impossible (and gendered) standards imposed on game developers"

Quote

Last week, videogame studio ArenaNet fired two of its employees in what has become a far too common occurrence in the videogame industry. After a mild Twitter altercation in which narrative designer Jessica Price called out someone for mansplaining her job back to her, a hateful mob of misogynistic gamers mobilised through websites such as Reddit to complain to her employers about her ‘abusive’ behaviour and to bombard her personal Twitter account with hateful messages.


It’s worth stressing that while in a follow-up tweet, Price complained about ‘rando asshats’ mansplaining to her generally, she never once called the original respondent any names; she simply used their tweet as an example of what female game developers constantly have to deal with on social media.
 

This is not an isolated occurrence. Ever since the misogynistic denizens of gamer culture began to mobilise through websites such as Reddit and 4chan, in what would eventually solidify under the banner of ‘Gamergate’ in mid-2014, every outspoken and publicly visible minority game developer has had a crosshair on their forehead. The mobs circle for years, waiting for the slightest political utterance or act that they can exaggerate and blow up into a news story that the developer’s employer would rather not have to deal with. The exact same strategy got Alison Rapp fired from Nintendo in 2016, Dina Abou Karam fired from Comcept in 2014, and Randi Harper fired from Kixeye in 2015.

https://overland.org.au/2018/07/gamers-and-managers-vs-workers-the-impossible-and-gendered-standards-imposed-on-game-developers/

 

It's quite lengthy and it was clearly heavily biased so I didn't read it all, but just from the first few paragraphs you get a pretty good idea about how things like this can be twisted and manipulated to push a particular agenda. Either because that is what the author of the article genuinely believes, or it's because they think that it will generate more clicks.


When I saw this thread here I wasn't going to look at it because it seemed like a whole big shit show that I don't even want to waste my time with. And, it is, but for different reasons. I'm glad I did read this thread though because I got to see the actual initial twitter conversation that took place that sparked the sacking. And boy does it paint a different picture than what that earlier article I saw portrayed.
 

Spoiler

image.png.6e9cea82be44e83fe19e3681321ffa69.png

 

image.png.eda88050c5631860320ff275cf9d1c20.png


She was representing her company through her twitter account, and as such should be held to company standards when it comes to communicating to the public. Looking at the twitter comments by the user 'Deroir' they appear to be genuine comments of someone who has a shared interest who was interested in opening a dialogue. 'Deroirs' twitter profile lists them as a Guild Wars 2 streamer, so it's reasonable to assume that they have a genuine interest in the game and its development process.

Price obviously has some underlying issues that she took out on this person for the simple fact that they were [presumably] male. I believe if it was a female that wrote those comments to her twitter, she would be praising a fellow female for being so interested and knowledgeable in the industry.

The company made the right decision in taking action against her in this situation. She was engaging directly with customers of the company and members of the community centralised around the product they provide. She engaged with them in an inappropriate manner that could cause damage to the company and their branding.
While I sympathise with anyone losing their job and their means of supporting themselves and perhaps their family, we don't know what went on behind the scenes at the company. It's entirely possible that she was offered an opportunity to receive disciplinary action not involving termination for the incident on condition that she issued an apology, but maybe she refused. Maybe there were other incidents or other workplace issues with her, such as where she publicly celebrated the death of TotalBiscuit [also on twitter]. We really don't know what went on behind the scenes, so it's hard to say whether or not termination was the companies first choice of action or if it was the only choice they were left with.

I haven't seen the twitter comments made by the other employee that was also fired, so I can't say whether or not it was justified for that person also receiving disciplinary action, but again we don't know what was happening internally or during counselling that resulted in the termination. Again, it's unfortunate that people have lost their job over his incident, but when you are representing your company you need to behave accordingly and not act in a way that could damage the company or the public perception of the company.

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1 hour ago, AlwaysFSX said:

Did you know you're not supposed to be a dick towards your customers. It's kind of bad for business. The other thing is it's entirely possible to have reasonable discussion without toxicity, or just more plainly, being a better person to someone who is toxic. If your Twitter bio includes that you frequently block people you're a mental child that can't hear other opinions without crying.

 

 

Bingo.

One can plainly disagree, or even agree to disagree, while still being respectful and not trying to throw yourself as someone who can't have a competent conversation about potentially controversial topics.

A lot of my friends have politics that I don't necessarily agree with, and guess what? I can live with it, because at the end of the day, we're all going to have different beliefs because of many, many, MANY factors. Life ain't perfect for anyone, nor would I really want that, either. I'd much rather have civil discourse about very controversial topics than fuming at trivial shit.

 

And this is why this case just makes me wonder "why?" She could've stated something that wasn't as blatantly victimizing as "Today in being a female game dev", like actually getting herself involved in the conversation and trying to understand where the other dude was coming from.

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1 minute ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Bingo.

One can plainly disagree, or even agree to disagree, while still being respectful and not trying to throw yourself as someone who can't have a competent conversation about potentially controversial topics.

A lot of my friends have politics that I don't necessarily agree with, and guess what? I can live with it, because at the end of the day, we're all going to have different beliefs because of many, many, MANY factors. Life ain't perfect for anyone, nor would I really want that, either. I'd much rather have civil discourse about very controversial topics than fuming at trivial shit.

 

And this is why this case just makes me wonder "why?" She could've stated something that wasn't as blatantly victimizing as "Today in being a female game dev", like actually getting herself involved in the conversation and trying to understand where the other dude was coming from.

 

And that is exactly it. If she didn't want to discuss it all she had to do was either ignore the post or say something like "This isn't the right place for this conversation". Heck, she could have even added "I am not going to get into a discussion about this topic on Twitter" at the end of her post chain to make it clear to everyone reading that she isn't interested in engaging.

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8 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Bingo.

One can plainly disagree, or even agree to disagree, while still being respectful and not trying to throw yourself as someone who can't have a competent conversation about potentially controversial topics.

A lot of my friends have politics that I don't necessarily agree with, and guess what? I can live with it, because at the end of the day, we're all going to have different beliefs because of many, many, MANY factors. Life ain't perfect for anyone, nor would I really want that, either. I'd much rather have civil discourse about very controversial topics than fuming at trivial shit.

 

And this is why this case just makes me wonder "why?" She could've stated something that wasn't as blatantly victimizing as "Today in being a female game dev", like actually getting herself involved in the conversation and trying to understand where the other dude was coming from.

4 minutes ago, Derangel said:

And that is exactly it. If she didn't want to discuss it all she had to do was either ignore the post or say something like "This isn't the right place for this conversation". Heck, she could have even added "I am not going to get into a discussion about this topic on Twitter" at the end of her post chain to make it clear to everyone reading that she isn't interested in engaging.

One might say she wanted to talk about this to make some kind of example out of a person to push her own beliefs.

Image result for thinking emoji

Nahh, can't be that.

.

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3 hours ago, Spotty said:

Looking at the twitter comments by the user 'Deroir' they appear to be genuine comments of someone who has a shared interest who was interested in opening a dialogue. 'Deroirs' twitter profile lists them as a Guild Wars 2 streamer, so it's reasonable to assume that they have a genuine interest in the game and its development process.

 

I read Deroirs is Guild Wars 2/ArenaNet partnered streamer with an npc name to himself in game so I think he definitely concern about the game/story development for upcoming episode 3.. Or 4? I can't remember. 

 

He simply voicing his opinion imo w/o any intention to attack or belittle anyone. 

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2 hours ago, Gullerback said:

Everyones wrong here tbh.. She i dont think deserved to be fired (tho clearly reprimanded).  The customer isn't always right.

Then you haven't watched the video I provided or looked at any evidence we have here.

 

Just look at what the Reply was and how she responded to that. You have to be an awful person to do that.

 

And she was fired for this.

It is highly probable that she would have been fired anyway because of the person she is and this is just the icing on the cake.

 

 

But how the hell can you defend her behaviour?!
Especially since the Customer was extremly careful and respectful to her?!
 

Here another Video about this shit, though less informed, though the title says it all in a nutshell:

 

 

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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5 hours ago, CoolMarquis97 said:

This is why I'm upset with AreaNet's actions. They have opened the doors to more of this behavior. 

 

It happens, but you can't blame that on ArenaNet. They did what they should've done and they did it professionally.

Jessica Price should have been fired for what she's done and there's nothing wrong with it, it also has nothing to do with the gender.

Those tweets by Jennifer Scheurle show that an issue exists, but the way she wrote them, makes it seem like it's ArenaNet's fault and it's definitely not. What do you think they should've done instead? Jessica Price did something unacceptable from a PR point of view so it's fairly obvious that the consequence for that is losing her job.

If ArenaNet didn't fire her solely because of the fact that she's a woman, that would be a true case of discrimination - but towards men.

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4 hours ago, n2a newt said:

Meanwhile..

https://www.pcgamer.com/igda-urges-studios-to-clarify-guidelines-for-social-media-conduct-after-arenanet-sackings/

 

 

It's been 10 years or more since Facebook and other social media has taken off, and you're telling me that these policies for game developers hasn't been spelled out yet...

 

And this is why I don't really even want to join IGDA anymore. When there one of the biggest legal shitstorms hitting the gaming industry all they do is to keep round table meetup at the biggest game development event that is and name it something clickbaity and (by what I have heard) it turns out to be a big community back tapping moment for the lost revenue stream called lootboxes, just took them couple of months to keep it. And when someone goes and publicly calls their customers "asshats" and gets fired and then goes full on SJW-disorder, it takes IGDA only couple of hours to get some kind of "guide" to make nice little social media rules... for... your... company...

 

WHAT?!? On the year 2018 IGDA makes a guide for social media rules?!? What the actual [minor friendly content] they are doing there if they need to release something like this now? Holding hands and singing "kumbaya, everything is fine"?

 

And for real, if you (man/woman/trans/attack helicopter/whatever) go and call your customer or even not-probable customer "asshat" publicly, you deserve to be fired.

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1 hour ago, Sampsy said:

It's easy to just call her an idiot or something but she comes across as so consistently paranoid I feel like there may be mental illness at play. 

That is radical feminism.

Or you could also call it misandry.

 

And can it get any worse?

YES; IT CAN!!

 

 

 

 

Is there anything else to say?!
She totally was into the Gender shit and saw that everywhere she looked. 

And that is the Problem.

 

There was a sexist person - and that was not Deroir...

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

That is radical feminism.

Or you could also call it misandry.

 

And can it get any worse?

YES; IT CAN!!

 

-snip-

 

 

Is there anything else to say?!
She totally was into the Gender shit and saw that everywhere she looked. 

And that is the Problem.

 

There was a sexist person - and that was not Deroir...

Should we ask her opinion on Battlefield 5..?

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