Is Apple's behavior ILLEGAL?? - iMac Pro Repair Pt. 2

[bac729]

2 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

inb4 8K megainches superwide iMac Pro

i think they would go 8K before the superwide but that is well down the road (3 years)

[Egg-Roll]

14 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

I didn't compare. I'm saying these situations are more common than the video makes out. 

Can only compare if you had to fix your Ace threw shady practices, if you simply sent it to Sammy to repair the unit then no it's completely different. Simply because once again Sammy fixed it for you vs Apple refusing to fix it and causing 6 months of downtime instead of 2 weeks. If you look at it on a business point-of-view a 2 week downtime vs a 6 month one is a better value for a production loss aspect.

 

If linus had real plans on making that unit work to bring in money after taking it apart, how much money could be associated as a loss because of Apple being Apple? Not including repair costs and say a base of 3 weeks downtime, you have to include additional product needing to be bought to offset everything (this means possible a new computer, time to build at least). Linus could be seeing a loss equal to the cost of the computer or more if Apple wasn't being Apple.

 

I had the ability to repair my Sammy S4(about 1 week because they were just up the street), but it would have cost as much as a new phone so I declined, based on Apples response towards Linus I would have been told no, and to F off... How are those the same?

[Jtalk4456]

Apple will somehow get away with this, heaven knows how. If you like mac software, that's a preference. If you think their software and how the hardware works and communicates within their ecosystem makes their product premium and worth the apple tax, then that is your opinion and you have a right to have it. But their business practices ARE illegal according to the FTC, and even before that ruling, I am of the opinion that their practices SHOULD have been illegal. Remember the fiasco where replacing the screen at a third party repair facility bricks the phone on the next update? WHY? that was built into their software that if it didn't detect an AASP or genius bar guy did it, the phone would stop working. If dell or hp pulled something like that, they'd be buried so quick you'd not even realize until it was over. But somehow this is a normal business practice that apple gets away with all the time. This fiasco with Linus' IMAC Pro is just another example. And what I find really stupid is the benefit. No intelligent company or repair tech will lose money by saying, yes I can repair that. If Apple just repaired it, we would've had an IMAC pro video a while back and a bunch of people thinking about getting a new imac would have made the decision to buy based on good things linus said about it. Instead they refused to help a consumer, even with payment expected by the consumer. Now here we all are talking about apple. The few who are supporting apple in this are overshadowed by the numbers whose opinion of apple has now dropped. This only hurts apple, it's not saving them money, it's not creating a positive opinion for their company, and the whole thing seems to have helped fuel Rossman's lawsuit and fight against Apple. For such an innovative, genius company, they sure don't seem to be smart enough to take a customers money and avoid bad PR. OK rant over.

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, nicklmg said:

But... they're not the same scenario at all.  

 

In your scenario you were offered an opportunity to have your device fixed. We were essentially told to go pound sand, and that there was nothing that could be done for us.

 

Only after ~6 months of doing work that no average person would be able to do (I doubt a post on a forum from a random user asking for help with a dropped iMac screen would elicit hundreds of replies, leading to getting parts in a super round-about way) have we been able to even come CLOSE to having a working computer again.

 

Also, I'm not really sure what you're trying to imply by saying "Looks like someone needed another large Apple hate thread. It's not hard to see what would happen if you made the video." - we're just giving our experience of dealing with an issue that shouldn't be this difficult to deal with. It's not like we're specifically attacking Apple just for being Apple, we're giving our story of dealing with their shitty policies as we have experienced them.

Many assumptions there. But you know as well as I do what will happen to this thread. 

[Jtalk4456]

3 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Many assumptions there. But you know as well as I do what will happen to this thread. 

Quote

Only after ~6 months of doing work that no average person would be able to do

1 assumption... not sure where you got many from. Also I'd say that's a very good assumption. As an average person myself, I wouldn't have the slightest clue how to go about getting a replacement apple part other than talking to apple and googling apple replacement parts. A lot of people won't even make it to the googling. And that's not many assumptions, that is based on experience as a tech seeing many people come in saying, I called (company name) and they couldn't help. Can you fix it for me?

[nicklmg]

33 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Many assumptions there. But you know as well as I do what will happen to this thread. 

What assumptions?

 

You said yourself that "When I dropped my Galaxy Ace I was the first person in NZ to do so, and had to be sent to Germany for 2 weeks." - AKA you were given the opportunity to have it fixed, you just had to send it to Germany. We were given NO opportunity to fix our device through traditional means.

 

It would be absolutely unheard of for a single post of "mY mAc BrOkE bEcAuSe I tOoK iT aPaRt PlS hAlP" to get hundreds of replies, let alone hundreds of credible replies from authorized repair persons. It's not an assumption to say that no average consumer would get the response that we did, it's a fact.

 

My only assumption was that you're implying that we made these videos just to "jump on the Apple hate bandwagon." Don't you think there would be many, many easier (and not to mention cheaper) ways to do that if that was actually our intention?

 

I guess we both know what will happen to this thread, but we'll have two different interpretations of what that actually is. My assumption is that you'll see it as Apple hate-mongering without any real backing, and I'll see it as a place for discussion about a topic that we addressed in a video.

 

I'd understand the negativity if we were pissed off about not getting a warranty repair on this computer or something, but come on... their behavior is about as anti-consumer as any electronics company is willing to get these days, and you're acting like we're trying to start a flamewar over nothing.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

honestly i don't like everything that Apple do either, but i'm left with no choice but using their products. 

 

like i'm paying Microsoft €145 for an OS and it doesn't even work properly and has (for me) deal breaking bugs...

at least macOS works properly.

 

EDIT: for the record, i use Windows on my desktop pc and macOS on my macbook, so i'm not one to hate on Windows for no reason, i use it everyday. 

EDIT 2: Windows is €145. i said €140 before by mistake. 

[danwat1234]

Apple's repair and parts policies is hurting the environment. Throw it away, buy a new one.
Will iFixit write an article about this situation?  Having a super closed loop spare parts policy is idiotic. 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

2 minutes ago, danwat1234 said:

Apple's repair and parts policies is hurting the environment. Throw it away, buy a new one.
Will iFixit write an article about this situation?  Having a super closed loop spare parts policy is idiotic. 

many laptops that are as thin as a macbook pro are not upgradable either. it's not just Apple. 

 

do i think it's a good thing? no... but that doesn't mean Apple is the only one who should be called out for it. 

[nicklmg]

4 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

honestly i don't like everything that Apple do either, but i'm left with no choice but using their products. 

 

like i'm paying Microsoft €140 for an OS and it doesn't even work properly and has (for me) deal breaking bugs...

at least macOS works properly.

 

EDIT: for the record, i use Windows on my desktop pc and macOS on my macbook, so i'm not one to hate on Windows for no reason, i actually use it everyday. 

I'm so sick of Windows laptops that I'm seriously considering a Macbook for my next purchase on that side of things. I've had too many issues with my Blade 2016, I'm taking a walk on the other side for a while to see if the grass truly is greener.

 

Linus has had plenty of good experiences with Mac devices in the last few years. Just sucks that this one was so overwhelmingly negative.

[Egg-Roll]

9 minutes ago, nicklmg said:

My only assumption was that you're implying that we made these videos just to "jump on the Apple hate bandwagon." Don't you think there would be many, many easier (and not to mention cheaper) ways to do that if that was actually our intention?

Easier yes, but I would say the videos have paid for at least the repairs on the youtube views 

https://socialblade.com/youtube/user/linustechtips/videos/mostviewed

 

Still no reason to deliberately break a expensive product, because you're not Mr. Beast. Tho this video still puzzles me...

Btw does Linus have this unit still? If so would be nice if he did a follow up video lol... It is the most viewed video after all...

 

3 minutes ago, nicklmg said:

Linus has had plenty of good experiences with Mac devices in the last few years. Just sucks that this one was so overwhelmingly negative.

If they were cheaper I would try them but their price, I can't justify it... I'd just buy and install a Linux Kernel onto a laptop instead...

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

8 minutes ago, nicklmg said:

I'm so sick of Windows laptops that I'm seriously considering a Macbook for my next purchase on that side of things. I've had too many issues with my Blade 2016, I'm taking a walk on the other side for a while to see if the grass truly is greener.

there are many little things in macOS that make it (for me) much nicer to use my laptop. the magnifier in macOS is worlds ahead of Windows's so i don't have to scale my display up, the gestures on the touchpad actually work and are really useful etc.. i could go on. the only thing i do miss is estimated battery life remaining.. 

 

8 minutes ago, nicklmg said:

Linus has had plenty of good experiences with Mac devices in the last few years. Just sucks that this one was so overwhelmingly negative.

yeah.. i don't like how Apple is handling this. or their recent shift to making their laptops totally locked down. i have a 2011 macbook pro and things like upgrading storage and ram is actually really easy on those (relatively speaking). it makes me wonder what changed in the 5 years of my laptop being new and the 2016 macbook pro being released.. 

[Jtalk4456]

19 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

honestly i don't like everything that Apple do either, but i'm left with no choice but using their products. 

 

like i'm paying Microsoft €145 for an OS and it doesn't even work properly and has (for me) deal breaking bugs...

at least macOS works properly.

 

EDIT: for the record, i use Windows on my desktop pc and macOS on my macbook, so i'm not one to hate on Windows for no reason, i use it everyday. 

EDIT 2: Windows is €145. i said €140 before by mistake. 

 

12 minutes ago, nicklmg said:

I'm so sick of Windows laptops that I'm seriously considering a Macbook for my next purchase on that side of things. I've had too many issues with my Blade 2016, I'm taking a walk on the other side for a while to see if the grass truly is greener.

 

Linus has had plenty of good experiences with Mac devices in the last few years. Just sucks that this one was so overwhelmingly negative.

I'm not gonna pretend windows is even close to perfect, but honestly, I've hardly ever had any problems or bugs with it. Also Kinguin sells it much cheaper. I've heard varying arguments on the legality, but being so well known, i feel if they were being illegal microsoft would've stopped them by now

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

5 minutes ago, Jtalk4456 said:

I'm not gonna pretend windows is even close to perfect, but honestly, I've hardly ever had any problems or bugs with it.

do you have multiple displays? if i click on the search icon on my taskbar on my second display, my taskbar dissapears and then comes back.... 

 

if i maximize some programs i get a white bar at the top of my display. 

 

search is broken. 7z returns nothing, but 7zi returns the result for 7zip. 

 

do i need to go on?

[Egg-Roll]

3 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

search is broken. 7z returns nothing, but 7zi returns the result for 7zip. 

This happened to me the first time I tried it (tho just typing in 7 worked perfectly), after the 2nd attempt it pulled it up perfectly fine. However I have seen this issue many times trying to find things in the explorers search bar... No special characters it simply refuses to pull the files.

 

My biggest complaint about windows is the stupid forced updates with the mandatory restarts. Not sure about Macs but I love Linux's approach to updates w/o needing to restart unless it is a main kernel update.

 

6 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

do you have multiple displays? if i click on the search icon on my taskbar on my second display, my taskbar dissapears and then comes back.... 

 

if i maximize some programs i get a white bar at the top of my display. 

I have 2 displays and I don't have either of these issues. I'm guessing it is based on hardware to hardware, much like Linux windows is built around flexibility, not even the pre installed versions can be perfect.

[Dash Lambda]

Just now, firelighter487 said:

Do you have multiple displays?

-snip-

Windows 10 hates multi-monitor users.

Like that Aero snap thing or whatever they call it, where if you're dragging a window between monitors it 'helpfully' stops your cursor at the border unless you're flicking it. I had to change registry values to stop that, and I found no way of killing that function without getting rid of snap altogether.

[DrMacintosh]

41 minutes ago, danwat1234 said:

Apple's repair and parts policies is hurting the environment. Throw it away, buy a new one.
Will iFixit write an article about this situation?  Having a super closed loop spare parts policy is idiotic. 

They don't throw the machines away, they recycle basically everything in them.....

[danwat1234]

@DrMacintosh I'm sure they do. It is the consumers not bothering to e-junk because they don't want pay or go to the effort of repairing their electronics. Having a closed parts/repair system does not help this at all. 

@firelighter487 Was talking about the closed loop system, not the design of their products. Battery, SSD can still be swapped in those. Screen can be replaced.

[GDRRiley]

3 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

video editing I've been told nothing is better than a Mac, same with graphics design. (which would make sense why Disney/Pixar is Pro Apple)

1. pixar is windows because 99% of what they do is in a CAD program.

Video editing is common on macs becasue of final Cut Pro, while once the best program its gone down over the last few years. Da Vinici resolve is better in most ways.

Graphic design is often done in adobe programs which means OS doesn't matter

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

7 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

This happened to me the first time I tried it (tho just typing in 7 worked perfectly), after the 2nd attempt it pulled it up perfectly fine. However I have seen this issue many times trying to find things in the explorers search bar... No special characters it simply refuses to pull the files.

just tired again and now 7 works. but the point is i don't use search unless i can't find something. so i almost never search for the same thing. 

 

7 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

My biggest complaint about windows is the stupid forced updates with the mandatory restarts. Not sure about Macs but I love Linux's approach to updates w/o needing to restart unless it is a main kernel update.

with Mac you do need to restart but it doesn't force you to in the way Windows does. you get reminders but i've never had a Mac restart itself to do an update. 

 

9 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

I have 2 displays and I don't have either of these issues. I'm guessing it is based on hardware to hardware, much like Linux windows is built around flexibility, not even the pre installed versions can be perfect.

the 2 apps that do the bar at the top thing are spotify and iTunes. do you have either of those installed? i want to know if it's not just me because that happens on my pc and it happened on my Windows laptop before i sold it. 

 

7 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

Windows 10 hates multi-monitor users.

Like that Aero snap thing or whatever they call it, where if you're dragging a window between monitors it 'helpfully' stops your cursor at the border unless you're flicking it. I had to change registry values to stop that, and I found no way of killing that function without getting rid of snap altogether.

yeah that's very annoying. and not being able to change wallpapers for each display is another nice one. it has to be the same wallpaper on all screens.. ugh

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, nicklmg said:

What assumptions?

 

You said yourself that "When I dropped my Galaxy Ace I was the first person in NZ to do so, and had to be sent to Germany for 2 weeks." - AKA you were given the opportunity to have it fixed, you just had to send it to Germany. We were given NO opportunity to fix our device through traditional means.

 

It would be absolutely unheard of for a single post of "mY mAc BrOkE bEcAuSe I tOoK iT aPaRt PlS hAlP" to get hundreds of replies, let alone hundreds of credible replies from authorized repair persons. It's not an assumption to say that no average consumer would get the response that we did, it's a fact.

 

My only assumption was that you're implying that we made these videos just to "jump on the Apple hate bandwagon." Don't you think there would be many, many easier (and not to mention cheaper) ways to do that if that was actually our intention?

 

I guess we both know what will happen to this thread, but we'll have two different interpretations of what that actually is. My assumption is that you'll see it as Apple hate-mongering without any real backing, and I'll see it as a place for discussion about a topic that we addressed in a video.

 

I'd understand the negativity if we were pissed off about not getting a warranty repair on this computer or something, but come on... their behavior is about as anti-consumer as any electronics company is willing to get these days, and you're acting like we're trying to start a flamewar over nothing.

To be fair Linus said in the video that there were places available to fix, but not locally. I don't see how that situation is different at all to mine. 

 

This isn't a very fair practice by Apple's part at all really, which is my opinion. It's not good enough for a product a lot of people pay good money for, which should be covered by law for repair and warranty (goodness knows the outrage if it was broken without the warranty void - unacceptable from a company that should know better). 

 

There will be many nonconstructive comments (like mine i admit) in this thread, and thats just the fact of a forum that this happens. It does seem in the video that Linus is just repeating much stuff that has already been said. I don't really have a problem with him making a video on a topic thats important to him at all, it's his job. Slapping on a clickbait and then knowing that there will be all these comments and attracting attention, it's a bit much. Sure he covers some important aspects from his points of view, and rightly calls out people who misinterpret his views but it's a bit far. Everyone fails sometimes and if I responded to everyone who criticised me, then I could be here a while. 

 

What would be better for a video is a clear view of what is the situation and what will happen. Some articles (as in the video) claimed it would cost too much to repair anyway. Linus disagrees (as it should be) but then got quoted more than it would cost for a new unit to repair. Somehow through connections he bought a new logic board and CPU + RAM for ~2k. Theres a lot of mud in the video. 

 

It is also sad that not much will come of this. Apple's target audience is people who look at a Mac and see a nice sleek, robust design. The average consumer. If you aren't into tech you see the Mac as a very well designed tool. It has a great aluminium chassis most companies don't have. It looks very futuristic and should last you a long time. These are the people who will lose, these people don't have connections as Linus does. 

[GDRRiley]

45 minutes ago, nicklmg said:

 I've had too many issues with my Blade 2016, I'm taking a walk on the other side for a while to see if the grass truly is greener.

the first issues there was thinking that a razer blade wouldn't have issues. razer doesn't make good laptops. Go look at a HP, dell or lenvo or maybe an asus.

 

[King_of_Oz]

5 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

I'm more interested in what would happen with an actual warranty claim.

 

The lesson learned here is that you shouldn't let idiot employees fuck with expensive hardware unless you're prepared to pay an idiot tax when the manufacturer doesn't bail you out.

Hey hey hey! Slow down there! Don't be calling people idiots for breaking hardware. People make mistakes. We forgive them. Be nice. Be kind.

 

#VirtueNazi

Edited July 11, 2018 by King_of_Oz

[Arika]

 

on both sides.

[Egg-Roll]

15 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

the 2 apps that do the bar at the top thing are spotify and iTunes. do you have either of those installed? i want to know if it's not just me because that happens on my pc and it happened on my Windows laptop before i sold it. 

 

I have neither, one I downright refuse to install (iTunes) the other I have no use for mostly due to them being slower than molasses to come to canada.

 

10 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

the first issues there was thinking that a razer blade wouldn't have issues. razer doesn't make good laptops. Go look at a HP, dell or lenvo or maybe an asus.

I'd pass on Lenovo and HP unless its business class.

 

15 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

What would be better for a video is a clear view of what is the situation and what will happen. Some articles (as in the video) claimed it would cost too much to repair anyway. Linus disagrees (as it should be) but then got quoted more than it would cost for a new unit to repair. Somehow through connections he bought a new logic board and CPU + RAM for ~2k. Theres a lot of mud in the video. 

 

It is also sad that not much will come of this. Apple's target audience is people who look at a Mac and see a nice sleek, robust design. The average consumer. If you aren't into tech you see the Mac as a very well designed tool. It has a great aluminium chassis most companies don't have. It looks very futuristic and should last you a long time. These are the people who will lose, these people don't have connections as Linus does. 

Somehow through connections that he didn't have till the previous video went live... He himself had no connections and was left baffled because Apple couldn't be bothered to explain the reasoning to the declining of service. IMO Apple is gouging on prices much like a washing machine, or car. How is it, it costs more to replace 50% (or less) of something than buying a new one itself not including labour if all done in one shot? To me that in itself should be illegal, cars being the exception for safety reasons after accidents if the frame is all messed up etc.

 

With the FTC ruling there is hope in the USA at least. However looks mean nothing if the company can't be bothered to cover their product or price gouge on things broken. Imagine dropping your brand new S9+ and being told that fancy new phone will now cost $1500 to fix the screen instead of $250. That is what happened to Linus.

 

I've seen/heard similar BS at a local Apple store too with a family members broken screen iPod, according to them when they were there it was all iPhones with broken screens, but for their issue was pay something stupid like $150 to outright replace a good device with likely a refurbished unit after doing a quick and cheap screen repair.

 

I don't support gov getting into corporate affairs but a good part of what Apple is doing should become illegal.