Surface Go - A new low cost Surface Pro - Starts at only 399$

[mr moose]

48 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

 

I strongly disagree, but I guess that depends on what you define as "one would realistically run on a Surface".

I would assume that people buy these as laptop replacements, so I expect it to be used for what most people use laptops for. Since it is being touted as being good for students, that means at the very least writing essays.

If it can't do that, then people should stop saying it is good for students.

 

They are promoted over the ipads for arts in the schools around me, they should be able to run the adobe suite and similar programs. Mind you, I looked at hem for my eldest son who's doing an arts heavy course load and discovered the yoga 520 was just as good and few $100 cheaper with keyboard and pencil. 

[Dabombinable]

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

They are promoted over the ipads for arts in the schools around me, they should be able to run the adobe suite and similar programs. Mind you, I looked at hem for my eldest son who's doing an arts heavy course load and discovered the yoga 520 was just as good and few $100 cheaper with keyboard and pencil. 

^That there is why Surface Tablets are poor value. You need to add the cost of the accessories (which are a big part of advertisements) on top of the tablets price

[LAwLz]

52 minutes ago, mr moose said:

They are promoted over the ipads for arts in the schools around me, they should be able to run the adobe suite and similar programs. Mind you, I looked at hem for my eldest son who's doing an arts heavy course load and discovered the yoga 520 was just as good and few $100 cheaper with keyboard and pencil. 

Are you sure it's the Surface Go bring promoted and not the Surface Pro?

The Surface Pro I can understand for art students (again, the pen is really good for that), but this is the Go version. 

 

Also, with the full version of Photoshop coming to the iPad, I think the gap between the Surface Pro and iPad (for art students) will close dramatically.

 

42 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

^That there is why Surface Tablets are poor value. You need to add the cost of the accessories (which are a big part of advertisements) on top of the tablets price

Exactly my point.

This "400 dollar tablet" is actually 780 dollars if you want to use it for the things people say it is good for. Things like drawing or using it as a laptop (isn't that the whole point of having Windows on it rather than a OS more suitable for tablets, like iOS or Android?).

 

I think you can get far better stuff for your money by looking at other brands.

[mr moose]

Just now, LAwLz said:

Are you sure it's the Surface Go bring promoted and not the Surface Pro?

The Surface Pro I can understand for art students (again, the pen is really good for that), but this is the Go version. 

 

Also, with the full version of Photoshop coming to the iPad, I think the gap between the Surface Pro and iPad (for art students) will close dramatically.

 

Exactly my point.

This "400 dollar tablet" is actually 780 dollars if you want to use it for the things people say it is good for. Things like drawing or using it as a laptop (isn't that the whole point of having Windows on it rather than a OS more suitable for tablets, like iOS or Android?).

 

I think you can get far better stuff for your money by looking at other brands.

They don't recommend exact models, they just point to the surface range and say get what you can afford. Depending on which teacher you talk to some also recommend various entry level laptops( because they know not everyone is made of money), But I asked one to show me what he used and it took 3 minutes to open an illustrator file (hence why I opted for the $1000 yoga and not the $600 ideapad). The one thing they are unanimously doing though is steering parents away from ipads, in fact the whole college is moving away from an ipad-centric system to a BYOD laptop system, but more specifically the art department just doesn't find them valuable (I think adobe coming to the ipad might be too late for this school but we'll see).

[Drak3]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

You still haven't given a single reason why this device is a better tablet than an Android device or an iPad.

The functionality of Windows.

 

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

you replied by listing benefits of the Android tablet

A plethora of shitty games and a GUI that has shitty scaling are not benefits of an Android tablet.

 

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

oesn't matter whose fault it is. At the end of the day, it is an issue for the customer.

Also, I 100% put the blame for UWPs shortcomings and failures on Microsoft, but that's a topic for another thread. At the end of the day, my grandma won't care whose fault it is there isn't any Youtube app on the device. All she cares about is, if tabletA has a youtube app and tabletB doesn't have a youtube app then she will lean towards tabletA. She won't take pity on the maker of tabletB and go with that instead, and neither should you.

To be quite frank, I consider UWP equivalent to Android and iOS apps on the consumer side. They do what they need to when needed to.

But things like dedicated YouTube apps on large tablets are worse than the website.

 

So again, having some dedicated apps that do a worse job than just opening the webpage in a browser, is not a benefit to me.

[GoodBytes]

6 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

^That there is why Surface Tablets are poor value. You need to add the cost of the accessories (which are a big part of advertisements) on top of the tablets price

A Surface product is not meant to provide the best value for the specs.

It is a premium product, regardless of specs/model. You buy it for the look, build quality and feel. And you know that you'll have an excellent (considering today's technology limitation) pen and finger tracking on a Windows device, and an excellent keyboard and trackpad for the device size.

 

Why do you think that they use/provide Alcantara and magnesium alloy. Use rubber, plastic and crappy loud cooling solutions (for the affected Surface models), and call it a day. A great way to cut cost, as most consumers don't consider these things. No one goes to BestBuy and ask what fan a laptop has, and what is the heatsink surface area... but that won't be a Surface. Microsoft leaves this to OEMs. That said, HP has excellent competitive Surface Pro products, which I am not sure how well they actually sell... I think their poor image created in Vista and early Win7 days still follows them today even on their premium systems. But that is a different topic. Sony had one too in the past, where they even managed to fit an actual quad core CPU inside (at the cost of battery life and a bit thicker device, but hey! If you don't mind these and prefer performance, it was a great choice to consider).

 

From Microsoft perspective, it is about pushing the industry forward, bringing new device forms and experience to consumers.

 

[Dabombinable]

6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

A Surface product is not meant to provide the best value for the specs.

It is a premium product, regardless of specs/model. You buy it for the look, build quality and feel. And you know that you'll have an excellent (considering today's technology limitation) pen and finger tracking on a Windows device, and an excellent keyboard and trackpad for the device size.

 

Why do you think that they use/provide Alcantara and magnesium alloy. Use rubber, plastic and crappy loud cooling solutions (for the affected Surface models), and call it a day. A great way to cut cost, as most consumers don't consider these things. No one goes to BestBuy and ask what fan a laptop has, and what is the heatsink surface area... but that won't be a Surface. Microsoft leaves this to OEMs. That said, HP has excellent competitive Surface Pro products, which I am not sure how well they actually sell... I think their poor image created in Vista and early Win7 days still follows them today even on their premium systems. But that is a different topic. Sony had one too in the past, where they even managed to fit an actual quad core CPU inside (at the cost of battery life and a bit thicker device, but hey! If you don't mind these and prefer performance, it was a great choice to consider).

 

From Microsoft perspective, it is about pushing the industry forward, bringing new device forms and experience to consumers.

 

If the Surface Go is anything like the Surface 3 & 4, what the tablet is made out of doesn't mean much when they break fairly easily. Unlike the Surface RT for example or the (not pro at all) Samsung Galaxy Pro S.

And devices aimed at students have to provide good value, since there is a lot of competition in entry level Windows tablets. Competition that includes the keyboard+stylus in the base price, with better base specs as well.

[LAwLz]

18 hours ago, Drak3 said:

The functionality of Windows.

Such as?

You're being very vague and I want specifics.

 

18 hours ago, Drak3 said:

A plethora of shitty games and a GUI that has shitty scaling are not benefits of an Android tablet.

Maybe not for you, but it is for others.

 

18 hours ago, Drak3 said:

To be quite frank, I consider UWP equivalent to Android and iOS apps on the consumer side. They do what they need to when needed to.

You might be the only person in the world who does that.

Everyone else except the most hardcore of Microsoft fanboys will agree that the Microsoft store is severely lacking when it comes to programs. I can list a bunch of them that are lacking for my use case if you want.

 

18 hours ago, Drak3 said:

But things like dedicated YouTube apps on large tablets are worse than the website.

How?

 

16 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

It is a premium product, regardless of specs/model. You buy it for the look, build quality and feel. And you know that you'll have an excellent (considering today's technology limitation) pen and finger tracking on a Windows device, and an excellent keyboard and trackpad for the device size.

I wouldn't say the Surface products has "excellent build quality", unless by "build quality" you mean "it feels premium".

They are plagued with hardware and software issues.

[Teddy07]

Too expensive compared to an Ipad

[Nicnac]

Nice product I guess but I couldn't work on something that small. I need 13" of real estate lol

That thing looks more like a phablet

[GoldenLag]

Id grab one if i was looking for a tablet device. But i was looking for a laptop, but opted for a monitor and keyboard to hook up my old one instead. So now im not looking for anything. 

 

Might recommend one to an ART friend. 

[Drak3]

5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Such as?

The ability to run exes, easily and quickly navigate files both on board and across multiple drives, have handwriting recognition built in and working regardless of tablet brand, the ability to chose to block feature updates if I chose a model with LTE, better UI scaling, and built in utilities like snipping tool and notepad.

 

5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Everyone else except the most hardcore of Microsoft fanboys will agree that the Microsoft store is severely lacking when it comes to programs.

 I never said that the UWP app selection was plentiful, just that UWP itself is equivalent to APK as far as the user is concerned.

5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

How

Accessing and replying to notifications is faster, copying URLs is faster and more consistent, using the timeline to go back and forth in a video is far easier when not full screen, and I can see/do more with the layout of Youtube's Website.

[mynameisjuan]

Im going to give it a week to bring up any glaring hardware issue and if its still good going to pick one up note taking and just as a second device. 

[LAwLz]

58 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

The ability to run exes

Such as?

Please remember to only bring up .exes you would want to use with only the touch screen, and that does not have a good iOS or Android equivalence.

 

59 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

easily and quickly navigate files both on board and across multiple drives

What do you mean by this exactly? Please be more precise. I have a file browser on my tablet, it can sync with online providers, it can use SMB, and all the things I can imagine a Windows tablet can do.

 

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

have handwriting recognition built in and working regardless of tablet brand

You mean like on the iPad? Or through third party apps on Android?

And before you say it's built in on Windows, I don't see the value in having it built in but maybe you can enlighten me on that.

 

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

the ability to chose to block feature updates if I chose a model with LTE

Ehm... you do realize that you can't do that on Windows, right?

At best you can delay updates with Windows Pro, which this device does not come with. It comes with Windows 10S, and can be "unlocked" to Windows 10 Home.

Also, you can block updates on iOS and Android too. Even more so than you can on Windows 10 Pro.

 

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

better UI scaling

How exactly? I hope you don't mean PPI scaling, because that is ass in Windows (unless you use UWP, which is about as pleasant as stabbing yourself in the eyes).

 

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

and built in utilities like snipping tool and notepad

Wow, notepad sure is a great selling point. Totally unique to Windows.

It's not like both Android and iOS has snapping tool-like features, and notepad apps.

*heavy sarcasm*

 

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

 I never said that the UWP app selection was plentiful, just that UWP itself is equivalent to APK as far as the user is concerned.

Well, why does the users care about the API? As far as average user is concerned, iOS APIs are equivalent to WinAPI.

For developers however, they are very different and as a result the apps that exist are different too. For example UWP is far more restrictive than the Android APIs. Not just in ways of how they are allowed to run and interact with other applications, but also in ways lie general API availability. Try creating your own browser engine or file explorer using the UWP APIs. You won't be able to. Microsoft doesn't support it. It is possible on Android though.

 

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

Accessing and replying to notifications is faster

How? On Android they show up in the notification area and clicking on it brings you straight to the message. On Windows using a browser you have to have the website open to somewhat get the same functionality, but even then it's no faster because it's still the same amount of clicks.

I could agree with you if you said replying was faster, because you have a keyboard, but remember that we're talking about using the Surface without a keyboard.

 

Perhaps you're affected by baby duck syndrome a bit?

 

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

copying URLs is faster and more consistent

What do you mean by "more consistent"? And how is copying URLs faster exactly? It's literally 2 clicks in the app.

Share -> Copy to clipboard

I timed it. It took about 1.5 seconds for me to copy the URL of a youtube video in the app. About the same as when I am sitting at my desktop with a mouse and keyboard. How do you even do it in a browser without a keyboard?

 

Also, you are forgetting that you can still access Youtube through the web browser on Android. So even IF using the browser was somehow better, that option exist for Android too. So you can't argue that Windows is better because it has to use the browser. At best you can argue that a dedicated Youtube app is not needed. But again, that is not a benefit for Windows.

I think that takes care of your argument that "it's harder to scrub though a video in the app than it is on the website" (despite it being the same, unless you're talking about using a trackpad or mouse).

 

 

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

I can see/do more with the layout of Youtube's Website.

Such as?

Come on, stop being so vague in your answers.

[captain_to_fire]

23 hours ago, Nicnac said:

Nice product I guess but I couldn't work on something that small. I need 13" of real estate lol

That thing looks more like a phablet

I’ll keep my iPad then. I was thinking about annotating photos like the one below with the Surface Go but I might cry for the lack of touchscreen optimized apps on Windows 10. 

Spoiler

 

[Nicnac]

13 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

I’ll keep my iPad then. I was thinking about annotating photos like the one below with the Surface Go but I might cry for the lack of touchscreen optimized apps on Windows 10. 

  Hide contents

 

I hated Histo 

[captain_to_fire]

2 hours ago, Nicnac said:

I hated Histo 

Physiology ftw because it's the easiest imo 

[suicidalfranco]

ouch

 

[GoodBytes]

2 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

ouch

 

Well that is not to too bad. His main complains is that he feel performance with Chrome is an issue, but not in Edge. How about Firefox or Opera (Chromium based with lots of optimizations)? You can't play modern games and has trouble running Premier and Photoshop... (obviously. although Lissa from MobileTechReview say it is acceptable if you don't use complex filters and big brushes). And he compares is with a Chromebook which doesn't have/can't have pen support or even touch, large plastic laptops (potentially loud too, and potentially lower battery life), and iPad Pro without pen and keyboard just by price (so it gets similarly priced with a keyboard without mouse/trackpad). I don't know, I never seen many students using an iPad in class, and at a library I see it used as more as a PDF reader more than anything, next to their laptop. And considering that many if not most students gets MacBook Pro... not sure they are interested in value over the perceived reliability and build quality of the device.

 

Meh, again, as we have the same conversation for every Surface product release: and as I always say it here:

If you don't care about the pen or form factor, Surface has never been great deal for your money. Just get a normal laptop, the device is not for you. It is marketed as a premium device and isn't interested in touching OEMs territories. If you want a normal laptop, get a laptop, if you want a tablet, get a tablet. If you are interested or excited in this 2-in-1, then maybe it is for you.

 

[suicidalfranco]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

And he compares is with a Chromebook which doesn't have/can't have pen support or even touch

?

 

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

large plastic laptops (potentially loud too, and potentially lower battery life)

sure... if you want to compare this against gaming laptops and not pentium powered ones or the more comparable m3 core to it.

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

and iPad Pro without pen and keyboard just by price (so it gets similarly priced with a keyboard without mouse/trackpad).

lol, no. This is no iPad Pro contender, at best it can only stand up against the cheaper and still better valued iPad where getting it with a keyboard and a pen will still cost less that the Go's base price

 

[Dabombinable]

1 minute ago, suicidalfranco said:

?

 

lol, no. This is no iPad Pro contender, at best it can only stand up against the cheaper and still better valued iPad where getting it with a keyboard and a pen will still cost less that the Go's base price

 

Normally Apple and value is an oxymoron, but in this case. Definitely.

[suicidalfranco]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

Normally Apple and value is an oxymoron, but in this case. Definitely.

I know, right?

 

So weird. Next thing you'll know there will be cheap Macbook... with ports 

[Dabombinable]

Just now, suicidalfranco said:

I know, right?

 

So weird. Next thing you'll know there will be cheap Macbook... with ports 

That's as likely as Microsoft actually truly giving more than 2 shits about gamers.